Fred is one of the most underrated players in England

Fred is a resemblance of the situation with Lingard / Herrera. He's useful to a point, but the moment it's required of this team to begin to challenge and bridge the gap with the likes of City (1 / 2 windows more) etc he's going to become a hindrance.

Solskjaer doesn't coach this team to be proficient in possession neither does he set us up tactically to retain the ball quickly. Because of these aspects when Fred continuously gives the ball away it typically results in the run of play going against us causing spells for the opposition to attack for a sustained period. This is absolutely criminal as a flaw especially with the defence as awful as it is. First team player for now ? sure thing. First team player one or two seasons down the line ? he will become a liability.
 
Strange one for me personally. There are days I think he’s quality and there are days I find myself going nuts over another one of his careless passes across or just outside the face of the box. just crazy sometimes like he just can’t see the press from the oppo. Can’t shoot but isn’t shy of having a go. He does what he’s in the team for well but that passing around the box, he’ll give a manager a heart attack one day....
 
SAFMUTD said:
I think he is rated accordingly, the fact that almost all the forum agrees that we need a new CDM is a clear indicative of it.
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First of all we need a CDM because we don't have one (unless you consider Matic but he's the past, not the future). Fred is not a defensive midfielder and we need to drop this narrative.

I will make a prediction that he'll stay here for a long, long time and he'll be involved a lot, even if we upgrade on him in the summer.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Bruno and Pogba pass the ball forward. Clearly you need to make a distinction between that and passing 10 yards sideways (ball retention...)
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I dont have the stats on who passes the ball back or forwards more. However I suspect the reason why we often lose when he doesnt play is that we give the ball away more in those games, coupled with there being noone there to do the dirty work and win it back meaning more possession, chances and goals for the opposition.

Unless there is another reason that we tend to lose when he is not in the team that I'm not seeing.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
People that can’t see him passing between the lines game after game need to get to Specsavers. He’s one of the best players we have at starting attacks and getting us playing at pace. Bruno and Pogba playing Hollywood passes over the top in to space is easy to do. Actually fizzing a flat ball in to some one between Opposition is the hard thing to do and Fred can do that.
I’m sure he can also just ping long passes over the top in to space if we really want but we have two players that already fill that requirement.
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he literally played the key pass for Bruno’s class goal and then people come straight on saying he’s not creative enough in the attacking phase? Or the ball he pinged over the top for the first or second goal against Southampton and that’s just off the top of my head. We already have 3 or 4 players who’ll hog the ball or shoot on sight. Do we really need more in the engine room? How many goals have we scored because he pressed high up while the other team isn’t settled? I’d say it’s more than Pogba has scored this season yet Fred enables others around him to play better at the same time. Yeah he wasn’t close enough to James for his goal but it was a quality hit and he should have buried that chance on the edge of the area (on his weaker foot) but not everything bad that happens to this team is because Fred doesn’t have a 100% pass completion rate. He’s not a DM! he’s always showing for it even under major pressure and he plays risky passes with either foot on the turn a lot of the time and he never ever stops running tackling and tracking. Id be willing to bet if you asked Cavani and Bruno who they prefer playing behind them they’d say Fred and it’s not even close.
 
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He needs half a second more, and when he isn't getting it, he is wasteful and appears careless.
 
SAFMUTD said:
What is he then? a box to box? when he plays he does that job.
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he’s been playing as a box to box for us after a few failed attempts to play him as a lone dm which was never his deal. we don’t have one focal point in the midfield who dictates the play from deep apart from matic who’s been done at this level for a while. Fred’s passing and pressing often sets the tempo for the team by default but he’s not a dm. He’s the water carrier destroyer/creator in between the dm and the 10.
 
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Nicolarra90 said:
Even Maguire and AWB shoot better than him ffs.
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I wish they did their jobs as good as Fred does his though.

Fred is the least of our worries. When you play a CM as a DM, you can't expect him to be at his best. Formation doesn't help him either. He's best suited to no8 role in a 4-3-3. In front of a real defensive midfielder and alongside/behind a more attacking midfielder.
 
Fred's offensive play has actually been improving over the last couple of months. He could easily have had 2 goals in his last 3 games bar a defender being forced into conceding an own goal to stop him against Southampton and a world class fingertip save against Arsenal. More importantly though, he's been setting up a lot of good goal scoring chances that (through no fault of his) our attackers have been wasting. He really should have 5 or 6 assists over the last couple of months. He's also improved his passing through the lines and he's constantly finding attacking players in dangerous positions just outside the penalty area that lead to good attacking moves.

However, I do feel his defensive play has actually dropped a bit at the same time. Not sure if it's a coincidence or if perhaps the management have asked him to focus a bit more on the offensive side of his game even if it means he's caught out a little more often defensively, which is a balance that might be worth it when he's partnering McTominay.
 
Ali Dia said:
he’s been playing as a box to box for us after a few failed attempts to play him as a lone dm which was never his deal. we don’t have one focal point in the midfield who dictates the play from deep apart from matic who’s been done at this level for a while. Fred’s passing and pressing often sets the tempo for the team by default but he’s not a dm. He’s the water carrier destroyer/creator in between the dm and the 10.
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Well you may be right, but still the one being benched if we bring a CDM will be Fred. Nor Pogba (if he stays) or Bruno are going to the bench.
 
We need to find someone that can do what Fred does but only better. There's no faulting his work rate and tenacity but we really need somevosy better on the ball. He gives it away too cheaply for me and his end product is laughable.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
We need to find someone that can do what Fred does but only better. There's no faulting his work rate and tenacity but we really need somevosy better on the ball. He gives it away too cheaply for me and his end product is laughable.
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Whether you like Fred or not we don’t actually need a midfielder with end product when we already have Bruno as one of the 3 in midfield and he is pretty much playing off the striker. With different players then yes I know what you mean but we already have fullbacks going forward, the 3 up top and Bruno. All our midfielders need to do in most games is keep the other team penned in and pressure them Into making mistakes and Fred is really good at that
 
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Nou_Camp99 said:
We need to find someone that can do what Fred does but only better. There's no faulting his work rate and tenacity but we really need somevosy better on the ball. He gives it away too cheaply for me and his end product is laughable.
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I was about to say similar things. Fred is Fred, great work ethic, tackler, but moving forward for United to progress we really need an upgrade on him, in my opinion as well. Let's not mention his shooting. haha!
 
Fred is so good and yes, criminally underrated - I just feel he has to have the right players around him. Reminds me of a lot Carrick and I think that says it all
 
Machine Elements said:
Formation doesn't help him either. He's best suited to no8 role in a 4-3-3. In front of a real defensive midfielder and alongside/behind a more attacking midfielder.
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Yeah, but a top quality in that position should be able to shoot too. Herrera had the same problem, couldn't hit a barn door after 2015.

Fred is a decent player, not world class but not everyone needs to be. He's currently more important than he should be in a team aiming to win the league, and I'm hoping central midfield will be one of two positions strengthened this summer.
 
Fred is okay, he's valuable because he's a tenacious workhorse out on the pitch.

He however, doesn't have a good first touch which leaves him scrambling to recover the ball at times....hence his large amount of yellow cards.

Ideally Man Utd needs two attacking minded midfielders with one solid CDM in the back, I think Fred can full fill this role as a bench player, but I don't think the quality is there for him to be our sole CDM in the starting 11.
 
Brad2020 said:
Fred is okay, he's valuable because he's a tenacious workhorse out on the pitch.

He however, doesn't have a good first touch which leaves him scrambling to recover the ball at times....hence his large amount of yellow cards.

Ideally Man Utd needs two attacking minded midfielders with one solid CDM in the back, I think Fred can full fill this role as a bench player, but I don't think the quality is there for him to be our sole CDM in the starting 11.
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He’s behind Shaw Maguire and Pogba (who he definitely tackles way more than) for yellow cards. He doesn’t get a high amount of yellow cards for an aggressive midfielder. I think that shows that he’s actually a very good clean tackler. Difference between Fred and others is he’ll have the balls to take the ball in difficult situations and it doesn’t always come off but he keeps going. Give me a player who is occasionally flawed but doesn’t hide any day.
 
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I think Fred's value lies in what he does without the ball - that incessant work-rate and urgency to regain possession has hopefully rubbed off on others (hopefully). His stock will drop once we are comfortable playing possession based football under pressure and move away from our usual swift counter-attacking approach.
 
passing-wind said:
Fred is a resemblance of the situation with Lingard / Herrera. He's useful to a point, but the moment it's required of this team to begin to challenge and bridge the gap with the likes of City (1 / 2 windows more) etc he's going to become a hindrance.

Solskjaer doesn't coach this team to be proficient in possession neither does he set us up tactically to retain the ball quickly. Because of these aspects when Fred continuously gives the ball away it typically results in the run of play going against us causing spells for the opposition to attack for a sustained period. This is absolutely criminal as a flaw especially with the defence as awful as it is. First team player for now ? sure thing. First team player one or two seasons down the line ? he will become a liability.
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Fred has the same pass percentage as last season's player of the year Jordan Henderson. If Henderson can win a league with 87% pass completion, then what's wrong with Fred?
 
He’s definitely our most limited midfielder in terms of his skill. He’s horrible with the ball at his feet and would never feature regularly in a top team with so much lacking from his game. He’s not afraid to get stuck in and he presses with intensity, but those qualities do not make him underrated. I’d argue he’s one of the most overrated players on this forum.
 
Olecurls99 said:
Fred has the same pass percentage as last season's player of the year Jordan Henderson. If Henderson can win a league with 87% pass completion, then what's wrong with Fred?
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if we were actually winning stuff everyone would love him and his tenacity but we aren’t so his limitations are the current excuse. In his role statistically he’s been one of the top players in the league since last season.
 
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Ace said:
He’s definitely our most limited midfielder in terms of his skill. He’s horrible with the ball at his feet and would never feature regularly in a top team with so much lacking from his game. He’s not afraid to get stuck in and he presses with intensity, but those qualities do not make him underrated. I’d argue he’s one of the most overrated players on this forum.
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eh? He’s 2 footed. He passes a lot more ambitiously than mct or matic. He tackles much better than either matic or Pogba and moves the ball a lot faster. He runs and intercepts far more than either of them and his pressing creates chances out of nothing higher up the pitch. If we don’t want the slow zombie play and lofted Hollywood balls to nobody then we need this kind of player. He also busts a gut and will put his body on the line to get the ball back if we lose it which Pogba and Matic will not do. We tried Pogba Bruno Matic solidly last year. 3 much better footballers or so everyone would have you believe and the best they could do is scrape into an EL final and 3rd place. Fred isn’t the problem.
 
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Ace said:
He’s definitely our most limited midfielder in terms of his skill. He’s horrible with the ball at his feet and would never feature regularly in a top team with so much lacking from his game. He’s not afraid to get stuck in and he presses with intensity, but those qualities do not make him underrated. I’d argue he’s one of the most overrated players on this forum.
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He really isn't. He can have a heavy first touch, has a terrible shot and maybe once a game gives away a pass in a dangerous position. Otherwise he's quite solid with the ball. Not enough to be our main ballplayer (which is our issue since he normally has to perform that role when he plays next to McTominay), but he'd be fine if his partner is at least as good. Fred's a decent dribbler, he's a better passer than a lot of people make out and is the one who starts a lot of our attacks with his passes through the lines, he's also quite two footed (behind only Greenwood and Pogba in our team).
 
Ali Dia said:
eh? We tried Pogba Bruno Matic solidly last year. 3 much better footballers or so everyone would have you believe and the best they could do is scrape into an EL final and 3rd place
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Strange point to try and make in favor of Fred when we were 5th when that combo was introduced to remove him from the starting XI and went on to not lose another league game.

And yes, MadDogg, I know it was mostly against weaker opposition. Point still stands, we need a better player with Matic's skill set in the midfield and it will most likely be at Fred's expense as a starter.
 
Assists from our (non Bruno) midfielders in the league this year. 1 from McT. None of them, Pogba included have been creative enough but Pogba and McT are much more dangerous than Fred coming onto the ball on the edge of the box. This season Fred has turned over the ball leading to goals on at least 3 occasions that I can remember but it’s probably more. Pogba thrived in the Bruno free role but Bruno is just a better fit. he can’t play in Fred’s role because he doesn’t work hard enough off the ball and we’ve tried him as the dm and he dallied on the ball and cost us numerous goals and he’s not a good or willing tackler which is weird when he’s massive and probably as strong as you’ll ever meet. So yeah. He’s the odd one out. Pogba is clearly a good player but we probably wouldn’t have signed Bruno in the first place if he wasn’t on about leaving every opportunity he got so I guess it’s on him to adapt or leave.
 
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Brexit_Brigade said:
Strange point to try and make in favor of Fred when we were 5th when that combo was introduced to remove him from the starting XI and went on to not lose another league game.

And yes, MadDogg, I know it was mostly against weaker opposition. Point still stands, we need a better player with Matic's skill set in the midfield and it will most likely be at Fred's expense as a starter.
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ya to try and squeeze Pogba and Bruno into the same team and correct me if I’m wrong but I’m fairly sure we haven’t won a match with Pogba and Matic starting in the middle this year. We started off the season playing Matic and he was benched fairly lively when we were getting overrun by everyone. He’s done at the top level. Now ole is still trying to squeeze Pogba in anywhere he can and it’s not really working. You’d think he’d just take Fred’s spot again wouldn’t you?
 
Ali Dia said:
correct me if I’m wrong but I’m fairly sure we haven’t won a match with Pogba and Matic starting in the middle this year
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Of course we have.

Matic is done at the top level, sure, but I wouldn't rule out another run of form before the end of the season where he shows his class again. I wish he had Fred's legs.
 
Brexit_Brigade said:
Of course we have.

Matic is done at the top level, sure, but I wouldn't rule out another run of form before the end of the season where he shows his class again. I wish he had Fred's legs.
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Sheffield United was the last game I remember. That partnership is just very poor. Static and standing off. I’ve said it all season maybe a better DM would release Pogba and Bruno but I just don’t think they are fully compatible whoever plays behind them. It’s a nice idea on paper at least. I don’t think they were ever really meant to be in the same team long term but Pogba stuck around because the bid never came.
 
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Feels like every game of late this great midfielder tried a shot from outside the box with his weaker foot when a simple pass to an overlapping fullback is on.

Troy Deeney summmed his game up aptly; wants far too much time on the ball than he warrants & nowhere near reliable enough to do something useful with it.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Feels like every game of late this great midfielder tried a shot from outside the box with his weaker foot when a simple pass to an overlapping fullback is on.

Troy Deeney summmed his game up aptly; wants far too much time on the ball than he warrants & nowhere near reliable enough to do something useful with it.
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Add “and offers nothing defensively” and you could be talking about Pogba easily enough. That quote from Deeney was during Fred’s first season here under Jose when things were going terribly for everyone. He’s come on an awful lot since then. Where is deeney these days?
 
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Ali Dia said:
Add “and offers nothing defensively” and you could be talking about Pogba easily enough. That quote from Deeney was during Fred’s first season here under Jose when things were going terribly for everyone. He’s come on an awful lot since then.
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When was the last time Fred offered anywhere near good enough form to win PoTT in a European win or get near a EPL ToTS; I’m not going to compare apples & oranges. There’s literally no debate as to what they’ve done for the club. This is the Fred thread calling him the most underrated midfielder in the league after all.

I agree he’s come on a lot, he was literally unplayable at first - he’s now more than serviceable but his reputation bellies what actually happens on the field for me. He does a number of good things but we’re not defending for our lives against PSG away most weeks; he needs to be better going forward for me.

Decent squad option in a top squad.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
When was the last time Fred offered anywhere near good enough form to win PoTT in a European win or get near a EPL ToTS; I’m not going to compare apples & oranges. There’s literally no debate as to what they’ve done for the club. This is the Fred thread calling him the most underrated midfielder in the league after all.

I agree he’s come on a lot, he was literally unplayable at first - he’s now more than serviceable but his reputation bellies what actually happens on the field for me. He does a number of good things but we’re not defending for our lives against PSG away most weeks; he needs to be better going forward for me.

Decent squad option in a top squad.
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This is all from over 2 years ago. Up until very recently Pogbas almost been a total passenger since Oles first good run, add in crazy wages and publicly wanting to leave and that’s that. Good player but not the right player anymore.
 
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Ali Dia said:
This is all from over 2 years ago. Up until very recently Pogbas almost been a total passenger since Oles first good run. Good player but not the right player anymore.
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Agreed

What I’m getting at is at no point past has Fred even looked like scaling anywhere near those heights.

I’d like to see a move away from relying on the combative McFred pivot hoping to hit the best teams on the counter eventually is all.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Agreed

What I’m getting at is at no point past has Fred even looked like scaling anywhere near those heights.

I’d like to see a move away from relying on the combative McFred pivot hoping to hit the best teams on the counter eventually is all.
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honestly I don’t think many dirty work box to box midfielders get the plaudits they deserve and that’s ok but it doesn’t take away from how important they are for the teams overall flow. Players like Pogba or Bruno need a Fred and/or a mcT behind them to win the ball back for them when they lose it trying to do something special. having 2 very different playmakers forcing it through the middle actually makes us more predictable and super easy to play though on the counter. Also pogbas long ball doesn’t suit Bruno. He likes it whacked into feet early (something Fred excels at) so he can use his first touch to drop the shoulder and get away from his man and if he loses it Fred is right there snapping trying to win it back for him as quickly as possible. Bruno and Fred have a good thing going and you can tell they like playing with each other.
 
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Ali Dia said:
honestly I don’t think many dirty work box to box midfielders get the plaudits they deserve and that’s ok but it doesn’t take away from how important they are for the teams overall flow. Players like Pogba or Bruno need a Fred and/or a mcT behind them to win the ball back for them when they lose it trying to something special. having 2 players forcing it forward through the middle makes us unbalanced and super easy to play though on the counter. Also pogbas long ball doesn’t suit Bruno. He likes it whacked into feet so he can use his first touch to drop the shoulder and get away from his man.
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A McT or Fred is [somewhat] understandable but when we play both we do much with the ball but without it; they’re good at getting the ball back but they’re hardly the best at doing something with it once they have it. Fred isn’t averse to taking his fair share of touches & the wayward pass.

The pivot serves 2 functions; neither Mct nor Fred are suitable to a solo DM role & our CBs need babysitting so currently it’s a necessity but we shouldn’t be relying on 2 destroyers & Bruno in games we intend to dominate if we’re trying to evolve our play style.

As for B2Bs not getting the plaudits; he certainly gets them on here. I think he’s useful, don’t get me wrong.
 
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