Fred is one of the most underrated players in England

UNITED ACADEMY said:
Fact is what happened and what you said is not fact but assumption with big IF because it didn’t happen, players like McT, Tuanzebe, Maguire could have block the shot and DDG could have save it because it was an outside box shot with low xG.

The fact is we won the match because we won the midfield battle and Fred was part of the midfield.
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“Fact is what happened and what I said is not fact”. Please. I said his blunder COULD have cost us points. You cannot accept that this occurred? Does not matter who could have done what after with “low xG”.

I hope he continues to improve and I will hold my hands up and say you were right. But if we fail to win vs WBA on saturday please feel free to continue the Fred defense
 
MikeeMike said:
“Fact is what happened and what I said is not fact”. Please. I said his blunder COULD have cost us points. You cannot accept that this occurred? Does not matter who could have done what after with “low xG”.
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You think I’m stupid that I don’t know you are exaggerating things here huh? Blunder means stupid mistake, opposition player played a good skill doesn’t mean it’s blunder from the other player. Explain yourself how do you see this as blunder, so far you are just blindly calling it blunder.

MikeeMike said:
I hope he continues to improve and I will hold my hands up and say you were right. But if we fail to win vs WBA on saturday please feel free to continue the Fred defense
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And if we win vs WBA please don’t waste people time exaggerating small thing, and see the bigger picture instead.
 
NinjaZombie said:
I've always rated Fletcher and Carrick. I don't rate Fred. He's got nothing on those two. Carrick especially. Fred doesn't have the same intelligence as Carrick had, and far less composure on the ball. There's no finesse or thought to his game.

I think it's a measure of how far we've fallen that we're rating Fred as one of our best midfielders. And I'd agree with that, he has been one of our best midfielders recently.
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He's obviously not at Carrick's level, but he really should be partnering a player like Carrick. They'd compliment each other perfectly IMO. It's why I think he should be mostly playing next to Matic, who is nowhere near Carrick either but he's the closest thing we've got.

Personally I'd say he's better than Fletcher was throughout most of his career, although obviously Fletch had that 12-18 month period where he was great. Fred hasn't reached that level yet.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
You think I’m stupid that I don’t know you are exaggerating things here huh? Blunder means stupid mistake, opposition player played a good skill doesn’t mean it’s blunder from the other player. Explain yourself how do you see this as blunder, so far you are just blindly calling it blunder.



And if we win vs WBA please don’t waste people time exaggerating small thing, and see the bigger picture instead.
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Watch again. From the throw in he is ball watching and Coleman totally open behind him. He misses the ball totally as Coleman turns him. Then jogs into the box even letting Everton No6 run past him (who could have recieved pass). Blunder might not be the most accurate word but, out of position, poor tackle, lack of effort to rectify is plain to see.
 
MikeeMike said:
Watch again. From the throw in he is ball watching and Coleman totally open behind him. He misses the ball totally as Coleman turns him. Then jogs into the box even letting Everton No6 run past him (who could have recieved pass). Blunder might not be the most accurate word but, out of position, poor tackle, lack of effort to rectify is plain to see.
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It's not out of position, all of that started from Everton cross on the left flank and Fred was in the middle (picture below), Coleman was never his man to mark to begin with but it was Tuanzebe's man. Fred moved to the right to cover the big space not to mark Coleman.

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You are criticising Fred's effort because Cavani or Bruno didn't track back Allan, really? Let me tell you something if Coleman decided to pass to Allan, Fred would have sprint to stop Allan because the distance between the two are not far and Fred could easily cover it and we have seen this happened times and times again how Fred cover lot of grounds.

You are exaggerating things and making things up from an event that isn't one individual's fault and not even a good chance to be likely a goal.
 
Stop now. Not the 93rd minute moment.

But, as you posted an image. Check Fred ball watching whilst leaving 3 against 1 in the box.
 
MikeeMike said:
Stop now. Not the 93rd minute moment.

But, as you posted an image. Check Fred ball watching whilst leaving 3 against 1 in the box.
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Are you not reading? I just told you, it was how the 93rd minute moment started to tell you that Coleman was Tuanzebe’s man to mark during the event. You are blindly blaming Fred but ignoring the fact that if Tuanzebe aware where his man was, the event wouldn’t happen to begin with.

Tuanzebe, Maguire & Pogba were in the box marking those players. Did you really think there was only Lindelof in the box, if you don’t know what’s happening don’t pretend you know something by making things up. There is no need to force yourself to make an agenda.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Are you not reading? I just told you, it was how the 93rd minute moment started to tell you that Coleman was Tuanzebe’s man to mark during the event. You are blindly blaming Fred but ignoring the fact that if Tuanzebe aware where his man was, the event wouldn’t happen to begin with.

Tuanzebe, Maguire & Pogba were in the box marking those players. Did you really think there was only Lindelof in the box, if you don’t know what’s happening don’t pretend you know something by making things up. There is no need to force yourself to make an agenda.
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Calm please sir. I respect your view and I kindly ask the same. I am refering to Doucoure miss which would have made it 2-2. Fred was caught out in allowing Coleman a free run and cross. In you image , Lindelof has 3 Everton players around. If Tuan/Harry and Pogba are marking them then your definition of marking is different to mine.

I highlighted a potentially costly mistake by Fred and that is all. Let’s move on eh?
 
MikeeMike said:
Calm please sir. I respect your view and I kindly ask the same. I am refering to Doucoure miss which would have made it 2-2. Fred was caught out in allowing Coleman a free run and cross. In you image , Lindelof has 3 Everton players around. If Tuan/Harry and Pogba are marking them then your definition of marking is different to mine.

I highlighted a potentially costly mistake by Fred and that is all. Let’s move on eh?
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Sir, I can't keep repeating myself more than three times to tell you that he build up of Doucoure's chance was started from the first screen shot I showed you.

Marking doesn't need to be 30cm with the player, if you know you can cover the space then you are already have eye on players and it was already 4 v 4 situation, we had Tuanzebe, Maguire, Lindelof & Pogba. Fred was in there to cover the big space.

After the ball was crossed, Pogba decided to chase the ball towards Iwobi and Fred decided to cover the other space. Coleman was behind Fred before he received the ball, Tuanzebe failed to follow him (2nd screen shot below).

You are quite ignorant about it and I'm trying to give you the information so you can stop wrongfully blaming individual player.

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UNITED ACADEMY said:
Sir, I can't keep repeating myself more than three times to tell you that he build up of Doucoure's chance was started from the first screen shot I showed you.

Marking doesn't need to be 30cm with the player, if you know you can cover the space then you are already have eye on players and it was already 4 v 4 situation, we had Tuanzebe, Maguire, Lindelof & Pogba. Fred was in there to cover the big space.

After the ball was crossed, Pogba decided to chase the ball towards Iwobi and Fred decided to cover the other space. Coleman was behind Fred before he received the ball, Tuanzebe failed to follow him (2nd screen shot below).

You are quite ignorant about it and I'm trying to give you the information so you can stop wrongfully blaming individual player.

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Well I cannot post screen shots but 8seconds after your clip Fred is ball watching and should be goal side. There is no one else to blame for Coleman getting in behind and creating what could have been 2-2. I tried , respectfully , to ask you to stop with the insults but you continue. I’ll sign off on this thread.
 
MikeeMike said:
Well I cannot post screen shots but 8seconds after your clip Fred is ball watching and should be goal side. There is no one else to blame for Coleman getting in behind and creating what could have been 2-2. I tried , respectfully , to ask you to stop with the insults but you continue. I’ll sign off on this thread.
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You know, instead of blaming Fred and ignoring Tuanzebe, may be you should give me explanation why didn’t Tuanzebe follow his own man (Coleman)? Why didn’t he tell Fred that he decided to ignore his man and leaving Coleman to Fred to mark?

That 8 seconds or whatever second was you mentioned Tuanzebe was still ball watching & mark no one. He had no reason not to stay tight with Coleman, the creating chance wouldn’t happen If Tuanzebe does his job. I tried, respectfully, to ask you to stop wrongfully blaming individual player but you continue to show your agenda.
 
Sometimes he is being asked to do too much. If he doesn't have to cover for his teammates then he would be better.
 
Missed a sitter vs Everton but actually has been improving loads.
 
MikeeMike said:
Missed a sitter vs Everton but actually has been improving loads.
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He has come a long way from his time under Jose, but he has a tendency to put us under unnecessary pressure, either through his erratic passing or lack of positional awareness. He wasn't to blame for the second goal against Everton but he certainly played a role.

We needed a player in there to control the first ten minutes of the second half to keep us composed. Even after conceding, we still needed to keep the ball better. But as you say, he has certainly improved.
 
Manoucha09 said:
He has come a long way from his time under Jose, but he has a tendency to put us under unnecessary pressure, either through his erratic passing or lack of positional awareness. He wasn't to blame for the second goal against Everton but he certainly played a role.

We needed a player in there to control the first ten minutes of the second half to keep us composed. Even after conceding, we still needed to keep the ball better. But as you say, he has certainly improved.
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Fred has improved as a player, but he is still not good enough for what we want in midfield; he is still prone to errors of judgement and poor passing, that always seem to make us more vulnerable. Fred and McTominay together give us a more robust presence and dynamism in there, but neither can control the play to the level we require.
 
I think you'd be smart to move him on this summer if you can.

Box-to-box midfielders that stand out due to work rate and recovering the ball don't tend to age very well and he will be 28 next month. Once the legs aren't elite any more, they don't have enough in their locker to compensate and they often have bad habits in positioning that their legs used to conceal that don't go away. If you want to see his future, look at Kante.
 
His inability to even shoot straight absolutely winds me up. He finds himself in positions where he is in the optimal position to forage for goals or at least work the keeper and he either passes up the opportunity, knowing he can't shoot for toffee, or skys the ball or meekly plays to the opposing keeper.

By contrast, McTominay has shown himself to have a great shot on him and someone who you aren't mad at whether he scores or not - he can work the keeper and he is a threat onrushing to balls outside the box.

It's not the biggest or key aspect of their role to score goals or be a goal threat, but if you're up there, you have to be able to contribute and do your part in the chain. Fred can only palm that responsibility off to others, which, as a 2-way CM, is not good enough.

I find the rest of his game has its pros and cons, but his lowest number out of 10 for his other poor aspects would probably be a 3.5ish, whilst his shooting is a 1, if that.
 
Fortitude said:
His inability to even shoot straight absolutely winds me up. He finds himself in positions where he is in the optimal position to forage for goals or at least work the keeper and he either passes up the opportunity, knowing he can't shoot for toffee, or skys the ball or meekly plays to the opposing keeper.

By contrast, McTominay has shown himself to have a great shot on him and someone who you aren't mad at whether he scores or not - he can work the keeper and he is a threat onrushing to balls outside the box.

It's not the biggest or key aspect of their role to score goals or be a goal threat, but if you're up there, you have to be able to contribute and do your part in the chain. Fred can only palm that responsibility off to others, which, as a 2-way CM, is not good enough.

I find the rest of his game has its pros and cons, but his lowest number out of 10 for his other poor aspects would probably be a 3.5ish, whilst his shooting is a 1, if that.
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I think this is why I'm not a big fan of him. If he was a pure DM that sat and protected the defence constantly I wouldn't mind as much, but his attacking play making and shooting are woeful. And as we don't play with a sole DM it's not good enough for where we want to be.
 
P-Nut said:
I think this is why I'm not a big fan of him. If he was a pure DM that sat and protected the defence constantly I wouldn't mind as much, but his attacking play making and shooting are woeful. And as we don't play with a sole DM it's not good enough for where we want to be.
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Exactly this; if he were a defensive rock who, scoring was a bonus for, it wouldn't really matter, but he's an all-action 2-way CM who is frequently in attacking positions and is essentially usless in the final third. You've got to be a Kante/Gattuso-level ball winner to get away with that as a CM.
 
I'm not a big fan of his , I have to be honest. He is good at putting players on the ball under pressure but everything else in his game falls short for me anyway. His passing is erratic, his first touch not great, gives away silly fouls in dangerous areas. Even though he hussles well, I don't find him particualry strong in the tackle or in possession.I like his drive and commitment but at this level you need more.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Yeah I don't remember this?

Vaguely remember him coming onto a shot on the edge of the box that went wide, but don't remember it being a sitter.
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43’ Totally open on edge of box with no challenge. skewed it wide. Any other striker and thats in.
 
No, he isn't.

His underrating (by some) is pretty much balanced out by his overrating (by others).

He's clearly much better than some people claimed at one time. But he's clearly not that great either. And he doesn't really seem to be developing dramatically in the right direction either.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
No, he isn't.

His underrating (by some) is pretty much balanced out by his overrating (by others).

He's clearly much better than some people claimed at one time. But he's clearly not that great either. And he doesn't really seem to be developing dramatically in the right direction either.
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agreed. I doubt anybody rated him outside of the United fans who put a premium on running around a bit.

is a squad player.

who would have thought we would buy the only Brazilian who can’t shoot.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
No, he isn't.

His underrating (by some) is pretty much balanced out by his overrating (by others).

He's clearly much better than some people claimed at one time. But he's clearly not that great either. And he doesn't really seem to be developing dramatically in the right direction either.
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This ☝️
Close thread.
 
A bit like Anderson he's a brazilian midfielder who can't score. He's more fit than Anderson though. I don't think he's underrated. He was woefull for his first 12 months and has now more hit the lvl expected of him.
 
Clearly he has his limits such as goal scoring but when he doesnt play we struggle. This is a fact as out of our 7 losses this season Fred has not played in 5 of them, so when he doesnt play our chances of losing increase significantly. Sheffield United game being the most recent example.

As for passing, he does always seem to have a brain fart of a pass once per game which then seems to cloud peoples judgments of his overall passing. However the myth over his passing needs to die, he is significantly ahead of both Bruno and Pogba when it comes to passing stats (that's ball retention in case there is any doubt) he is slightly ahead of Mctominay and only very slightly behind Maguire.

So when it comes to pass success he is one of the best players we have and we have a high loss rate when he doesnt play. So yeah I'd say he is definitely underrated.
 
Value him as a player for his energy and you see that in him the way he's always busy about his play but he must work on his final ball. I think the cultures to laugh about it and joke but we need to install some pride in him to want to practice practice practice and then he may be a top midfielder. But I fear for him that maybe he's 'settled' into a mindset where he's not comfortable or confident and he should be. He's got good qualities and get's in good areas and that's what I hope for. That he stays back in training and learns to clear his head and focus on the final ball.
 
Fred is underrated. He’s been an important player during our transition period; some kind of safeguard bringing badly needed stability to the team.

When that is said, I think Fred isn’t a player who’s able to bring us to the next level. He is ok now, but to develop or continue our progress, we cannot afford to depend on a midfielder without offensive fibres.

I still hope Fred stay with us a long period. He will for sure be a valuable squad player to any team in PL.
 
For a player that can't shoot, never assists, can't head it, and could never be used as holding midfielder, I think he does absolutely brilliantly!
 
Falcow said:
Clearly he has his limits such as goal scoring but when he doesnt play we struggle. This is a fact as out of our 7 losses this season Fred has not played in 5 of them, so when he doesnt play our chances of losing increase significantly. Sheffield United game being the most recent example.

As for passing, he does always seem to have a brain fart of a pass once per game which then seems to cloud peoples judgments of his overall passing. However the myth over his passing needs to die, he is significantly ahead of both Bruno and Pogba when it comes to passing stats (that's ball retention in case there is any doubt) he is slightly ahead of Mctominay and only very slightly behind Maguire.

So when it comes to pass success he is one of the best players we have and we have a high loss rate when he doesnt play. So yeah I'd say he is definitely underrated.
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Bruno and Pogba pass the ball forward. Clearly you need to make a distinction between that and passing 10 yards sideways (ball retention...)
 
People that can’t see him passing between the lines game after game need to get to Specsavers. He’s one of the best players we have at starting attacks and getting us playing at pace. Bruno and Pogba playing Hollywood passes over the top in to space is easy to do. Actually fizzing a flat ball in to some one between Opposition is the hard thing to do and Fred can do that.
I’m sure he can also just ping long passes over the top in to space if we really want but we have two players that already fill that requirement.
 
Striker10 said:
Value him as a player for his energy and you see that in him the way he's always busy about his play but he must work on his final ball. I think the cultures to laugh about it and joke but we need to install some pride in him to want to practice practice practice and then he may be a top midfielder. But I fear for him that maybe he's 'settled' into a mindset where he's not comfortable or confident and he should be. He's got good qualities and get's in good areas and that's what I hope for. That he stays back in training and learns to clear his head and focus on the final ball.
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I know the forum gets obsessed by ages - but he’s 28 next month - he is what he is.

Whatever anyone’s opinion of him is, it’s extremely unlikely he’s going to dramatically improve anything in his game - we might see small improvements. He’s never going to be able to shoot, and will likely never have any composure.
 
I think he is rated accordingly, the fact that almost all the forum agrees that we need a new CDM is a clear indicative of it.
 
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