We’re going nowhere with our central midfield options. That people expect us to challenge for a title with a first choice pairing of Fred and McTominay is absolutely beyond me. They aren’t bad players by any means; they’re good ones. But starting material in most games for a Manchester United winning machine? Pull the other one.
Fred is one of the most underrated players in England
- Thread starter Zoo
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Unfortunately, Fred is very good at some things, and really poor at others.
He really shouldn’t be allowed to pass the ball unless it’s a short on the ground pass
He really shouldn’t be allowed to pass the ball unless it’s a short on the ground pass
This isn't the game for him, is it?
He's definitely not a playmaker, bless him. We should probably tinker with the midfield at half time. Perhaps bring on Fernandes and move van de Beek deeper, or bring in McTominay for Fred.
Underrated by some, overrated by others. He’s alright, but personally I’d expect much more from a £52m midfielder than “work rate”.
no. Would be better as a club level middle distance runner.
Get a grip u fool.
Its a forum, a place for opinion. Or is it only an opinion you agree with, that you dont warn?
fool
I've been talking in the past 5 or 6 months or so about how the top teams doing really have a player who is just good at pressing and running. Theres one team several years ago that were famed for their pressing in midfield and they were very successful. Barcelona at the start of their dominant period, before those same players ended up pressing less later on.
So without the ball he has the pressing of Xavi and Iniesta. With the ball... Nevermind
So without the ball he has the pressing of Xavi and Iniesta. With the ball... Nevermind
Big fan but he’s not having a good game. To be fair it’s a makeshift midfield who’ve barely if ever played together and West ham have barely strung anything together with their first team. Needs more going forward though.
The player threads are locked. Do you not have the mental capacity to figure out there might be a reason for that?
'fool.'
Fair enough, I thought there was something odd about the stats I was looking at, that being said.....
It still stands that Fred can't hold a CDM role down fulltime by himself. United are better off signing Declan Rice, and using Fred as a bench player....provided they can sell Matic.
What is the contents of my post???
I know not to expect much from your barely intelligible sentence structure, but a certain degree of critical thinking is required. Run along now.
Matic is hanging out at centre back and VDB might as well have stayed at home. Fred is playing DM, centre mid and playmaker all in one. No wonder he is struggling.
People will make excuses for him, on the ball he's bang average at best.
I like Fred, but his shooting is hilarious. Most often nowhere near hitting the target.
not his best game at all but our main problem tonight is we can’t score. Once again that’s not Fred’s job. Clean sheet and looked comfortable defensively and he’s put a lot of work and running in. It’s going forward is the big problem and we’ve got the 6 already trying to create and they can’t do anything but it’s Fred’s fault we can’t break them down
Fred, number 17, position: scapegoat
not his best game at all but our main problem tonight is we can’t score. Once again that’s not Fred’s job. Clean sheet and looked comfortable defensively and he’s put a lot of work and running in. It’s going forward is the big problem and we’ve got the 6 already trying to create and they can’t do anything but it’s Fred’s fault we can’t break them down
No but in a game against packed defenses you need your deeper midfielders to have enough technique to either create a chance, play a key pass, or provide a shooting threat. Fred does none of those
what about our other attacking players whose job it is to attack?
Nice cross Fred!
not his best game at all but our main problem tonight is we can’t score. Once again that’s not Fred’s job. Clean sheet and looked comfortable defensively and he’s put a lot of work and running in. It’s going forward is the big problem and we’ve got the 6 already trying to create and they can’t do anything but it’s Fred’s fault we can’t break them down
Fred, number 17, position: scapegoat
I never said anything was Fred's fault, and I am not even commenting on the West Ham game specifically. Just commenting on Fred's qualities.
It certainly wouldn't hurt if he was even a little bit of a threat from distance, though.
Once again McTom puts Fred to shame. He's fecking shite
Fred is like a poor man's N'Golo Kante but I still like him anyway. Probably because of his work ethic.
Why Fred is being criticised? I thought so far in this game vs west ham he’s one of our best player. Find his front four with his passings and break up play very well which is why west ham only had 1 shot in 90 minutes with zero on target. He’s different type of midfielder to McTominay. McTominay is box to box, means he will likely to offer more goals in him.
While Fred is CM and pressing midfield which his job is to find the attacking players with his passing from deep and break up play when we are under attacked. Although, I prefer Kimmich but we know world class player like Kimmich is unavailable in the market at the moment.
While Fred is CM and pressing midfield which his job is to find the attacking players with his passing from deep and break up play when we are under attacked. Although, I prefer Kimmich but we know world class player like Kimmich is unavailable in the market at the moment.
He broke play up at times with some tackles. His distribution left a lot to be desired especially as he had so much of the ball. Some very wayward passes and poor choices, and very slow to get the ball moving
One of our best players tonight. Not sure why he’s getting stick here but then you never know what to expect on the caf.
Solid performance, kept us ticking over nicely by winning the ball time and again.
I think some dislike him becuase he’s poor at shooting, not sure that’s a major requirement for a DM but hey ho.
Solid performance, kept us ticking over nicely by winning the ball time and again.
I think some dislike him becuase he’s poor at shooting, not sure that’s a major requirement for a DM but hey ho.
I thought he was good today.
Should have had an assist right at the end. 2 key passes. 90% accuracy, despite people saying all his passes were off target. 4 tackles. Completed 3 dribbles.
He was one of the best players. There was barely any movement up front, and West Ham made it difficult with their packed defence.
Should have had an assist right at the end. 2 key passes. 90% accuracy, despite people saying all his passes were off target. 4 tackles. Completed 3 dribbles.
He was one of the best players. There was barely any movement up front, and West Ham made it difficult with their packed defence.
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should have had an assist at the end too. I think people just sit at home in shite form and they need someone to vent on. Rashford drives me absolutely nuts that he runs into trouble and doesn’t release the ball when we could have some great chances. Im not in any thread shitting all over him as soon as he makes a mistake in a match though. Our very expensive attack wasn’t really good enough to score against West Ham at home, that’s the crux of the matter. I don’t like matic but he was pretty good. Fred was decent. Usual effort and moves the ball well around the corner outside the box instead of faking the shot and then passing backwards like most of our forwards seem to do. Rice wasn’t any better, just for the sake of context. He didn’t get forward and assist or anything did he? Fred did what Rice did and also helped set up our goal.
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One of the most important players for us. Nothing fancy just quietly effective harrying the opponent.
He's always inches away from either doing something well or bad. It's fine margins, he just makes me nervous really.
Fred has been one of our better players over the past 12 months or so, always gives 100%, and works hard. His passing is not as bad as some make out, but like any other player, occasionally makes a mistake or two.
He gives the midfield a more solid look when he plays, especially alongside McTominay.
Ultimately he will be replaced, possibly by Garner, or Mejbri, but not for a couple of seasons I think, he probably won't improve a great deal, whereas McTominay will improve in my opinion.
He gives the midfield a more solid look when he plays, especially alongside McTominay.
Ultimately he will be replaced, possibly by Garner, or Mejbri, but not for a couple of seasons I think, he probably won't improve a great deal, whereas McTominay will improve in my opinion.
He started the game a bit iffy and I think some people just decide he was like that all match.
We dominated midfield and possession against a team that has two midfielders that are highly rated and some have said are better than what we have (Rice and Soucek), despite VDB being completely invisible and all of our attackers being poor. The only time West Ham got into the game was in the second half when Matic tired and Fred was basically playing midfield by himself, yet they still weren't exactly troubling us. West Ham were sitting off which made it easier for our midfield to dominate but harder for them to bring our attackers into play, but we still constantly won 50/50 balls and comfortably played around them.
Fred's general form has dropped a bit over the last couple of months but he's still important to us. Oh, and that's yet another assist he should have had at the end there only for Martial to miss. Fred's up to 6 or 7 like that over the last couple of months. Even though his general form has dropped his final ball has improved in that time, only for our attackers to mess it up every time.
We dominated midfield and possession against a team that has two midfielders that are highly rated and some have said are better than what we have (Rice and Soucek), despite VDB being completely invisible and all of our attackers being poor. The only time West Ham got into the game was in the second half when Matic tired and Fred was basically playing midfield by himself, yet they still weren't exactly troubling us. West Ham were sitting off which made it easier for our midfield to dominate but harder for them to bring our attackers into play, but we still constantly won 50/50 balls and comfortably played around them.
Fred's general form has dropped a bit over the last couple of months but he's still important to us. Oh, and that's yet another assist he should have had at the end there only for Martial to miss. Fred's up to 6 or 7 like that over the last couple of months. Even though his general form has dropped his final ball has improved in that time, only for our attackers to mess it up every time.
They aren't having good seasons either (bar Cavani), but if you honestly put a teams attacking onus on just the 3 forwards then you are woefully ignorant to how football is played at the highest level. It takes every single outfield player contributing to have a great attack that breaks down a team willing to sit as deep as West ham. CB's need to defend aggressively high up the pitch, while passing with purpose. Fullbacks have to push high and wide to offer crossing/ dribbling threats. DM's are going to be parked just outside the box and given plenty of time on the ball (like Fred and Matic were today) and have to have something in their locker to hurt the opposition. We probably win by 2 or 3 goals with Pogba on the pitch today, but without him or McT we lack a deeper midfielder that offers any sort of threat going forward, via creativity or goalscoring.
I agree tonight was a perfect game for Pogba. It wasn’t fast or physical and we weren’t under massive pressure. When matic is in cruise control you know its not that type of game. The forwards though. They created nothing. It’s worrying if we are needing goals from McT or Pogba to save us over and over. we still need pacy tacklers in the team because we are susceptible to the break when we throw everyone forward.
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Takes too many touches and is rubbish with the ball generally.
Unrreal engine and presses really well. Should come in for certain games, but games like this hes no use to us. Teams can sit back and let him have it, and he takes so long to do anything it allows teams to reset shape.
McTominay and Pogba should be the first choice midfield.
Unrreal engine and presses really well. Should come in for certain games, but games like this hes no use to us. Teams can sit back and let him have it, and he takes so long to do anything it allows teams to reset shape.
McTominay and Pogba should be the first choice midfield.
Another Fred performance tonight. Fine with him playing cup matches and Europa league but he really should be our last choice in the midfield (if he isn’t already).
Wow, underrated indeed.
Just reading through the critique from this evening, the guy made 139 passes tonight with a 90% pass completion rate, made the joint 2nd most tackles on the pitch and played 3 key passes. The closest midfielder on the pitch to that had 72 passes.
He's no prime Schweinsteiger but he's much better than some give him credit for.
Just reading through the critique from this evening, the guy made 139 passes tonight with a 90% pass completion rate, made the joint 2nd most tackles on the pitch and played 3 key passes. The closest midfielder on the pitch to that had 72 passes.
He's no prime Schweinsteiger but he's much better than some give him credit for.
He's hugely underrated defensively.
All CMs and DMs (Excluding Sub appearances - in other words, just first-teamers) - Played minimum of 8 games:
Tackles per 90 minutes
Allan 3.6
Romeu 3.6
McArthur 3.5
Fred 3.3
Gallagher 3.2
Bissouma 3.1
Kante 3
Neves 3
Moutinho 2.8
Philips 2.7
Interceptions per 90 minutes
Brownhill 3
Kante 2.4
Ceballos 2.3
Neves 2.3
Zambo 2.3
Reed 2.3
Fred 2.1
Rice 1.9
Phillips 1.8
Jorginho 1.7
Combined per 90 minutes
Fred - 5.4
Kante - 5.4
Neves - 5.3
Romeu - 5.1
Allan - 4.6
Phillips - 4.5
It turns out that Fred is actually the joint best midfielder in the league defensively. Yet, people keep calling him a poor tackler. Do you know why he attempts so many tackles? Because he has the second most presses out of any player in the league. Only Allan had more the last time I checked, and he is number one in tackles per 90.
Despite the difference between the top four being marginal, he and Kante are still slightly better than the rest. Fred is very well rounded defensively. He is very much like Kante in this way, except he makes slight more tackles whilst Kante makes slightly more interceptions.
All CMs and DMs (Excluding Sub appearances - in other words, just first-teamers) - Played minimum of 8 games:
Tackles per 90 minutes
Allan 3.6
Romeu 3.6
McArthur 3.5
Fred 3.3
Gallagher 3.2
Bissouma 3.1
Kante 3
Neves 3
Moutinho 2.8
Philips 2.7
Interceptions per 90 minutes
Brownhill 3
Kante 2.4
Ceballos 2.3
Neves 2.3
Zambo 2.3
Reed 2.3
Fred 2.1
Rice 1.9
Phillips 1.8
Jorginho 1.7
Combined per 90 minutes
Fred - 5.4
Kante - 5.4
Neves - 5.3
Romeu - 5.1
Allan - 4.6
Phillips - 4.5
It turns out that Fred is actually the joint best midfielder in the league defensively. Yet, people keep calling him a poor tackler. Do you know why he attempts so many tackles? Because he has the second most presses out of any player in the league. Only Allan had more the last time I checked, and he is number one in tackles per 90.
Despite the difference between the top four being marginal, he and Kante are still slightly better than the rest. Fred is very well rounded defensively. He is very much like Kante in this way, except he makes slight more tackles whilst Kante makes slightly more interceptions.
he crossed the ball for our goal and nearly had another assist at the end. 90% pass rate. Unreal engine. Our forwards and wing backs created nothing against West Ham at home and Fred is the problem?
Nice post!
As I said last night, statistically he is one of the best in the league in his position. I actually checked the stats for once but didn’t fancy posting them and arguing about them. It’s exhausting .Why aren’t people getting it. He might not be pleasing on the eye to everyone but he’s really effective and he’s far from being one of our biggest problems.
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I'm frustrated with him on the ball, there's very little creativity and literally zero goal threat. Don't get me wrong not every midfielder should be expected to have awesome attacking prowess, but he has so little it's a frustration at times. Off the ball I'm made up with him, as the good post you quoted reenforces.
If we could somehow combine McTominay and Fred we'd have a monster midfielder, as it is we have two flawed players who are not quite doing enough to nail down a guaranteed starting place.