[Raees]

Can't stand him. Such a poor bottom level. Headless chicken.

 

[croadyman]

Was completely spent near the end, couldn't even get power on his shots. Very poor game. Need him in this big week coming up though.

Get on the bench until Barca

 

[MichaelRed]

Jesus, I knew it'd be bad but not this bad. He gave 1/3 passes to the opposition. That is unforgivable.

 

[Fortitude]

1 man midfield show today and he was all over the place. Bayern dude is not ready for this level.

People are just irrational in judging Fred. Fred isn't a passer, close control player. He's a high press, defend, and counter kind of player. Very useful in that scope, but utilized outside his limits due to the absences. Still better at his B2B/pressing role than any other midfielder we have and probably 17 other teams in the EPL. You can't expect him to be what he isn't and then say sell him... unless you are a pissed Caf fan after a bad draw. Then its okay haha

Sorry but read what you’ve written and then realise we’re talking about a United player and someone who features in the Brazilian national team where you have literal defenders with more base competency and consider you shouldn’t have to trot these lines out for a midfielder of that supposed calibre.

I have a fair amount of posts either defending Fred or putting forth what he’s good at etc. but there is a line, and yesterday what he was offering out there was inexcusable for a professional of his standing; he shouldn’t look like a competition winner when asked to deviate from his primary role; we ask players to play where they’re not particularly comfortable all the time and whilst they may look poor at some tenets of the secondary (or tertiary) role, they don’t look like players from a division or two down, which is what Fred gave us last night, simply for being asked to play some football in a more controlled and refined manner. Quite frankly; he shouldn’t have a bottom level of that standard. It’s what will have him parsed at the earliest opportunity.

Playing to his strengths, he can be decisive in big games, but playing to his weaknesses (out of necessity) shouldn’t make him a total liability to his own side.

 

[Bondi77]

Troy Deeney is spot on about Fred.

 

[MichaelRed]

Troy Deeney is spot on about Fred.

?

 

[RedOrange]

1 man midfield show today and he was all over the place. Bayern dude is not ready for this level.

People are just irrational in judging Fred. Fred isn't a passer, close control player. He's a high press, defend, and counter kind of player. Very useful in that scope, but utilized outside his limits due to the absences. Still better at his B2B/pressing role than any other midfielder we have and probably 17 other teams in the EPL. You can't expect him to be what he isn't and then say sell him... unless you are a pissed Caf fan after a bad draw. Then its okay haha

Opponents dribble right past Fred like he isn't there and he's constantly out of position. He is horrible in defence.

He plays with energy and he did an excellent job man marking Kevin De Bruyne, but he's awful with opponents running with the ball towards the goal. Leeds first goal was almost entirely his fault.

 

[TheNewEra]

Don't renew him, he's the first out of the door imo.

Find a major upgrade to partner casemiro and have eriksen as a rotation option.

 

[Longshanks]

He can't play in that deep role by himself. No posistional discipline, can't play facing his own goal, panics under pressure, no physical presence.

It's got to be Martinez or Lindelof in that role in the next couple of games.

I said on Saturday he panicked on Saturday as soon as Casemerio went off and was told he was brilliant blah blah blah. The way he played last night was the way he played for those ten minutes against Palace. It nearly cost us on Saturday it did cost us last night.

It's not all his fault ETH shouldn't of put him in that position last night. He can't be trusted to play it.

 

[Kostov]

His fanboys club are definitely not making him any favors by glorifying any passable game he plays as some kind of MOTM display. The basics are always the same, he is a very average and unnatural midfielder. His passing is hit and miss, and his shooting is even more inconsistent. He should be let go and we focus to bring better quality.

 

[Shakesy]

He's average, but not that bad. Decent squad player imo

 

[Rockets Redglare]

The problem is he just can’t be trusted to play in a role with any really responsibility and this is a real problem when we have injuries and the team are much more reliant on him.

Decent squad option and can be used to great effect as seen against City, but we’re going to struggle the next couple of games with him in a midfield 2.

 

[flameinthesun]

The issue with Fred is these are the games and occasions (Casemiro, Mct, Eriksen out) where you want him to have an impact and step up for the team. Instead the drop in quality is massive. He is a specialist player for certain tactics, but for me he is not a reliable backup. The teams that win the league tend to have backups that can come in and be trusted to do a job. For me Fred is not that.

 

[RexHamilton]

He's average, but not that bad. Decent squad player imo

A squad player should surely be able to come in and do a decent job when injuries/suspensions build up during a run where the team is playing twice a week.

Last night was a game like that and his performance was that bad that I don’t see how a kid from the academy could have done any worse. So what use is he as a squad player?

 

[Shakesy]

A squad player should surely be able to come in and do a decent job when injuries/suspensions build up during a run where the team is playing twice a week.

Last night was a game like that and his performance was that bad that I don’t see how a kid from the academy could have done any worse. So what use is he as a squad player?

He's OK, really. He's scored some good goals. Saying that, I think he needs a run of games to really be as good as he could be (which is bang average). So, he might be 4th choice MF for us, or preferably for a mid-table club.

Anyway, Fred is bad but nowhere near Djemba Djemba Djemba Djemba

 

[Zippycup]

It's his inability to make 5yard passes that frustrates me more than anything.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

Do we reckon anyone on the pitch tells him to calm down and keep it simple? Or do they just let the chaos unfold?

Not saying it’s others fault for his shocking performances but it’s just so bizarre to watch a player make the same mistake again and again and again.

 

[Kingofwinners]

He has to go, he disrupts the full team. On a bad day he is arguably the worst man united player ever. Can’t see how we could risk starting him Sunday. Play Lindelof in midfield, some young lad whatever, but someone that is at a minimum a semi competent player every day.

 

[stevoc]

Do we reckon anyone on the pitch tells him to calm down and keep it simple? Or do they just let the chaos unfold?

Not saying it’s others fault for his shocking performances but it’s just so bizarre to watch a player make the same mistake again and again and again.

Well I can't imagine one or all of Jose, Ole, Ralf and Erik haven't told him to stop taking wild shots from outside the box. I think I remember Ole confirming he told him to stop it. Yet he still does it, so he probably doesn't listen.

 

[simmee]

He's just not good enough defensively. Shit passing when under pressure and not smart enough when defending. Trying to anticipate Gnoto's movement by showing him inside towards our goal was... something else.

He's a good sub to bring on to pressure high up the pitch, which he's honestly top class at, but that's about it.

 

[Oranges038]

He's just not good enough.

Should have left it there.

 

[GueRed]

He has his strengths.

Screening the defence and initiating moves with consistent quality passing isnt one of them.

 

[fergieisold]

A squad player should surely be able to come in and do a decent job when injuries/suspensions build up during a run where the team is playing twice a week.

Last night was a game like that and his performance was that bad that I don’t see how a kid from the academy could have done any worse. So what use is he as a squad player?

Ffs, one game - he's been pretty good this season. No idea how you think a kid from the academy is gonna come in and not get walked over in that game last night.

 

[DrRodo]

Hes good, but not top 4 material. He wouldnt look out of place at leeds or wolverhampton and the likes

Why wouldnt we want a player the level of casemiro next to casemiro?

 

[Oranges038]

Ffs, one game - he's been pretty good this season. No idea how you think a kid from the academy is gonna come in and not get walked over in that game last night.

It's not just one game, it's been 5 years of the same shite. We've seen enough to be able to judge him over a long period.

There's no defending him anymore, he's 29 and still plays with all the positional discipline and composure of an 8 year old.

 

[RexHamilton]

Ffs, one game - he's been pretty good this season. No idea how you think a kid from the academy is gonna come in and not get walked over in that game last night.

It's absolutely not one game. If a kid from the academy came in and played like Fred last night, it wouldn't be great, but at least it would be experience and he might learn from it. Fred isn't good enough. He's had OK moments this season. City game in particular, but his job was literally to run around after De Bruyne. We surely have players who can do that too. He can't pass, he can't tackle, he can't control the pace of the game, he can't shield the defence, he can't turn defence into attack (except for the opposition), so what can he do? Run around shadowing an opposition player because he has energy? Not good enough for me. But hey, it's all opinions. I'd be very happy if we sold him this summer.

 

[Solius]

Very tiresome seeing these definitive 'opinions' on him.

Saying things like he's crap, useless, etc.. is just not accurate is it?

He's had games where he's looked absolutely brilliant. He's definitely a very unpredictable player in terms of how he's performed and he's had his fair share of shockers, but he does have his uses and strengths and weaknesses like most players. There are certain midfield partnerships that don't suit him and expose his flaws pretty harshly but he's not rubbish. He's inconsistent, sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit.

I've watched games where he seems to cut out every single pass and is all over the pitch Ji-Sung Park style and then other games where he constantly tries to dive in or guesses the wrong passing lane to block. It's up and down with him and that's what you get, but he's not crap. One person said he's the worst player to ever play for us, I mean come on.

It's like some people are just incapable of any nuance and just have to blurt out the first primal thought that smashes around the walls of their skull.

 

[Stadjer]

Fair assessment, yet he's a central midfielder for Manchester United and Brazil. Let that sink in.

Very true. However, he might not be good at passing, shooting or receiving the ball under pressure and start an attack. He still is a central midfielder for Manchester United and Brazil. There must be a reason for that, he has other qualities. He had some really good games this season too for example. He just shouldnt be the main man in a midfield. He needs to support another better midfielder if he is to play.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

?

"Whenever you play against Fred, you let him get the ball".

"He has to take three or four touches. He doesn’t know how to do one or two touches".

"Anyone who watches his game will know when he gets it facing the wrong way, turns, turns, chops, chops".

"Four times a game, he will give you the ball". - Troy Deeney on Fred

And here we had people arguing that he should definitely start in Nou Camp over someone who can pass the ball.

 

[Resch]

Very tiresome seeing these definitive 'opinions' on him.

Saying things like he's crap, useless, etc.. is just not accurate is it?

He's had games where he's looked absolutely brilliant. He's definitely a very unpredictable player in terms of how he's performed and he's had his fair share of shockers, but he does have his uses and strengths and weaknesses like most players. There are certain midfield partnerships that don't suit him and expose his flaws pretty harshly but he's not rubbish. He's inconsistent, sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit.

I've watched games where he seems to cut out every single pass and is all over the pitch Ji-Sung Park style and then other games where he constantly tries to dive in or guesses the wrong passing lane to block. It's up and down with him and that's what you get, but he's not crap. One person said he's the worst player to ever play for us, I mean come on.

It's like some people are just incapable of any nuance and just have to blurt out the first primal thought that smashes around the walls of their skull.

Fred can shine, but he needs the other players to carry him. He can not control the midfield, he can not defend, he can not pass. As a player on his own, he is useless, because he can not stand up for his team, he has not been able to carry any responsibility. Just not good enough for a United team, not even as a squad player. We need players who stand up under pressure, Fred disappears.

 

[spiriticon]

He's not good enough to be the main man in midfield. He is the piano carrier, the support act. He knows it, we know it, ten Hag knows it.

We're back to having him as the main man only due to injuries and suspensions. It's unfortunate but that's how it rolls. It's not his fault Eriksen got Carroll'd and Casemiro can't keep his hands to himself.

As long as we're not paying him 300k a week to be a piano carrier, its all good. Every team needs them.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I've been praising him since the World Cup because he's played well but last night was as bad as you could possibly get from him.

That's the issue with Fred, he can be playing well but you know a 1/10 performance is always around the corner, especially if there's no Casemiro next to him.

 

[Kostov]

Anyone blamed McTominay yet?

 

[ZH1]

He's a player who struggles with the pressure. When we expect something he lets us down and that is his issue, he can do a job in a 3 where he plays as the ball winner and give it.

Yesterday he was under pressure to keep the game ticking, pick a pass as a traditional number 8, and get forward. He just doesn't have the skillset to do this, his limitations will always hold him back.

He still has a future here as a squad player to see out a game and if he is to start his role has to be specific to pressing high, winning the ball and giving it. If we expect anything more he will always let us down.

I need likes, I need to post on the best living rapper forum in the General, bless me..please!

 

[Solius]

Fred can shine, but he needs the other players to carry him. He can not control the midfield, he can not defend, he can not pass. As a player on his own, he is useless, because he can not stand up for his team, he has not been able to carry any responsibility. Just not good enough for a United team, not even as a squad player. We need players who stand up under pressure, Fred disappears.

See this is what I mean. Absolutes. I agree with one of them in that he cannot control a midfield.

But he can pass. He's not good at long passes and his range and type of pass is very limited but he does do certain passes well when on his game. Low drilled passes are probably what he's best at.

He can defend, there have been games where he's gotten in the way of everything. When playing well he is a very good interceptor, not a great tackler though.

I'm not even really ultimately disagreeing with you, it's just the language used isn't very conducive to good discussion.

 

[ZainCRse7en]

Shocking performance really, even by his low standards. Chasing the ball like a lost puppy, leaving acres of space behind him and panicking as soon as he received the ball. Its like watching a pub player playing 11 aside ffs.

 

[ZainCRse7en]

Very true. However, he might not be good at passing, shooting or receiving the ball under pressure and start an attack. He still is a central midfielder for Manchester United and Brazil. There must be a reason for that, he has other qualities. He had some really good games this season too for example. He just shouldnt be the main man in a midfield. He needs to support another better midfielder if he is to play.

And he cost Brazil the world cup with that brainless dribble at the right side of the field which led them being cut open with a counter attack. Hard to forget that.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Very tiresome seeing these definitive 'opinions' on him.

Saying things like he's crap, useless, etc.. is just not accurate is it?

He's had games where he's looked absolutely brilliant. He's definitely a very unpredictable player in terms of how he's performed and he's had his fair share of shockers, but he does have his uses and strengths and weaknesses like most players. There are certain midfield partnerships that don't suit him and expose his flaws pretty harshly but he's not rubbish. He's inconsistent, sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit.

I've watched games where he seems to cut out every single pass and is all over the pitch Ji-Sung Park style and then other games where he constantly tries to dive in or guesses the wrong passing lane to block. It's up and down with him and that's what you get, but he's not crap. One person said he's the worst player to ever play for us, I mean come on.

It's like some people are just incapable of any nuance and just have to blurt out the first primal thought that smashes around the walls of their skull.

What exactly are his uses, if i may ask? I keep reading that he brings energy and that he runs a lot. What does that even mean in the context of how we want to play? Yesterday, for example, he was full of energy and he ran miles on the pitch. He also had 63% passing accuracy (37/59) in a game where United saw nearly 70% of the total possession. So, what exactly did he bring to the table? Because, if running after the ball and high energy levels are his best qualities, he, pretty much, played to the best of his abilities.

And the nuanced opinion is that he can play better next to Casemiro? That can be said about almost any other midfielder in the game right now. Kroos and Modric definitely miss him, if you happened to have watched Real Madrid this season. The thing is these two have proved have shown what they are worth when you add Casemiro next to them in the midfield. Or is it nuanced comparing him to the player (Kante) who, in his prime, was the best transition midfielder in the world? The player who knew every single time when to tackle and when to close the passing lanes, who was perfectly able to play the first pass to initiate a quick break, and also was one of the best in the trade at carrying the ball through the lines. But Kante is better when he has a pure #6 shielding the defence... like Fred. And what about comparing him to Ji-Sung Park. Mr. Reliable for Fergie, the player the gaffer trusted so much to take on a specific assignment on the pitch while also keeping the shape and not disturbing the team's overall balance. But he used to run a lot and track back... like Fred.

You say that he has strengths and weaknesses, good games and bad games, but the problem is that every footballer on the planet (except Messi) is the same. When people are asking for the manager to play him to his strengths, my question is: What for? I mean, we are obviously taking a risk with Eriksen in a deeper role as a non-physical, slow and low energy player, but what we get in return is very good vision, exquisite passing range and someone at the heart of our engine who can read the game well and make the correct decisions just in front of our back-four. What do we get with Fred? Why is he so worth accommodating, to the point where people are arguing that he should definitely be starting, over Eriksen, in the tough games? It can't be for defensive stability because he's neither as strong as some believe (the same applies to Maguire and it's one of his biggest weaknesses) nor defensively reliable.

I can agree that he shouldn't be singled out. For instance, Bruno was equally shocking yesterday. Gave the ball away more times than anyone else on the pitch, he was constantly getting out of position to receive the ball and inviting press when he should have stuck to the plan and, just like Fred, he often resorted to his favourite "one-man" press which Leeds were working their way around with a couple of easy passes. Still, Bruno offers goals and assists and he's actually a player the opposition managers worry about. You can argue he's worth the sacrifices we make for him most of the time.

In this sense, and because football is a team sport, it's a bit unfair to pile on Fred. It's worrying having both him and Bruno on the pitch when they are both obviously not at the races. A proper side, not that shower of shite we faced yesterday, could have put 5 goals past us and have the 3 points in the bag by the end of the first half. That's how bad it was. But looking at the bigger picture, Fred isn't a frustrating footballer. He's a plain bad footballer who occasionally has a good cameo. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[stevoc]

Very true. However, he might not be good at passing, shooting or receiving the ball under pressure and start an attack. He still is a central midfielder for Manchester United and Brazil. There must be a reason for that, he has other qualities. He had some really good games this season too for example. He just shouldnt be the main man in a midfield. He needs to support another better midfielder if he is to play.

I agree mate and I've said as much in here and other threads recently. But still it's commendable (and a bit mad) that he's got to where he has in the game despite his technical limitations.

 

[bosnian_red]

TBF it is pretty predictable when he will have a bad game. Is it any surprise that his worst game in ages comes in a game where he doesn't have Casemiro, an actual DM next to him? He's a good box to box midfielder. But if he doesn't have that DM to partner him, he'll look all over the place defensively.