[NinjaZombie]

Sloppy with some of his passing but he is still important due to his pressing and work rate. The second goal v/s SFU highlighted our lack of aggression in central defense and midfield.

This, I agree with. Matic is a worse player than Fred is.

 

[Litch]

I won't argue about Pogba, because I think him losing the ball by dilly dallying on it in dangerous areas is about as bad as Fred's passing. Bruno, I'd forgive because he's on the pitch to be progressive, even then I don't see him say, pick up the ball from the edge of our box and then misplace a pass straight to an opponent in our half. He loses the ball higher up the pitch, which is to be expected unless we want to go back to playing LVG's style.

Fred is there for a limited role. Win the ball, press the opponent, keep things ticking for the more creative players. And yet, he's making horrific passing mistakes. This was a typical Fred performance. He won the ball a number of times, did well defensively at times but makes a number of mistakes. I'd even say the way he presses players leaves him vulnerable to being completely bypassed by the opponents and leaving the defence exposed but I'm putting that down to the work that he has to do to win tackles and the risk/reward nature of things.

Pogba was bad. When he was at Juve, I remember remarking to my friend that Pogba is not your traditional top class centre midfielder and I've not changed my mind. Playing him in a two with Fred is being unfair to Fred.

Like I said, it's a 'tag' that he'll never shake as long as he wears a Utd shirt. For me, I reflect how much he's come on since he's been here and continues to improve. I kind of agree that his passing lets him down but to say that's classic Fred is unfair. He's been one of the most consistent players...

 

[Devil may care]

I thought he was fine today, did his Fredness, the front 4 feckery was the issue.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Like I said, it's a 'tag' that he'll never shake as long as he wears a Utd shirt. For me, I reflect how much he's come on since he's been here and continues to improve. I kind of agree that his passing lets him down but to say that's classic Fred is unfair. He's been one of the most consistent players...

It's a tag he'll shake off (personally from me anyway) if he stops making unforced errors in his "recycling" passing. As it stands, he's still doing it.

 

[NinjaZombie]

His passing might be an issue, but I can name 5 positions we need to upgrade first. One of the most important player currently.

Agreed. I'm not blaming him for the result. There are worse performers out there today. I'm just frustrated at how he is constantly making mistakes in his passing and ball retention.

Hell, he could've scored the winner too if Leno had shorter arms.

 

[Ali Dia]

He wasn’t great today but he’s one of our most important and consistent players. It’s the creative players that are the problem.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Might not be wrong but I hope that midfielder has super hero powers cause he'll have a lot of work to do and ground to cover......

Its an issue that needs more than one solution, really. Fred could easily be replaced by a lower energy player who is a bit more disciplined and I don’t think we’d lose much at all. We might, however, need to press better as a team, whether that’s other players picking up his slack or the team (I know this is sacrilege) not pressing so high.

It perhaps speaks to how disjointed we are. I think a lot of Fred’s energy ends up being misdirected chasing after balls he has no chance of winning (or diving into challenges he can’t make) where other teams press more effectively as a unit with players that don’t have as much industry. When you throw in his issues in possession it’s hard not to come to the conclusion we could to do better for me.

 

[city-puma]

Well, that's probable but considering I was totally fine and satisfied with how Ander Herrera was playing in midfield for us, I don't think it's impossible.

@city-puma You've been saying some of us don't understand the intricacy of how the game is played. Care to explain in detail what we're missing out on?

Not really some, but only two.
Isn’t it obvious that we would have won the game if we didn’t lose McT? You did not see we were the better side in the first half? Didn’t you understand why we lost the midfield in the second half? And you chose to target Fred even though he was the one who actually did almost everything in the bottom third in the dual pivot? I think Ole should be bold enough to take off pogba for tactical reason, but I understand he doesn’t really have much choice except doing a bigger adjustment to the system which by itself is more difficult. As I said, it’s ok and normal that people see different things. No intention to offend you. If I did, I apologize. Don’t take it serious.

 

[Red00012]

He gives away the ball a lot

 

[city-puma]

Its an issue that needs more than one solution, really. Fred could easily be replaced by a lower energy player who is a bit more disciplined and I don’t think we’d lose much at all. We might, however, need to press better as a team, whether that’s other players picking up his slack or the team (I know this is sacrilege) not pressing so high.

It perhaps speaks to how disjointed we are. I think a lot of Fred’s energy ends up being misdirected chasing after balls he has no chance of winning (or diving into challenges he can’t make) where other teams press more effectively as a unit with players that don’t have as much industry when you throw in his issues in possession it’s hard not to come to the conclusion we could to do better for me.

Our issue is that we only have McFred setup to counter high-energy, high press, quick opponents. I hope Ole can find another system. The several systems he has already tried with both pogba and Bruno still not working well.

 

[izec]

not a good performance today. Had some terrible passing today.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Considering the shit he gets for his shooting it’s worth noting that only a sensational save stopped him scoring an absolute peach of a goal.

Generally played quite well. We’re so much more dominant in midfield when he starts. He really does need to cut out the couple of crazy sloppy moments he seems to have in most games he plays. It’s not a good look. Leaves a bad taste even when he’s had a good game (e.g. today)

 

[city-puma]

Agreed. I'm not blaming him for the result. There are worse performers out there today. I'm just frustrated at how he is constantly making mistakes in his passing and ball retention.

Hell, he could've scored the winner too if Leno had shorter arms.

Considering the shit he gets for his shooting it’s worth noting that only a sensational save stopped him scoring an absolute peach of a goal.

Generally played quite well. We’re so much more dominant in midfield when he starts. He really does need to cut out the couple of crazy sloppy moments he seems to have in most games he plays. It’s not a good look. Leaves a bad taste even when he’s had a good game (e.g. today)

the way I look at it is that everyone needs the options. When McFred play together, they always try to make available to each other, not only when screening our defense, but also on counter-press and duel challenge. It’s why we could resist most of the high press opponents. Pogba isn’t that type of players. It’s the reality he will never be. I don’t know what’s the solution to have an alternative system. Hope Ole can find one.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I personally think he's been a level below his best of late.

 

[MadDogg]

I personally think he's been a level below his best of late.

Agreed. The last month or so he's been a bit below the level he's shown for the rest of the last 18 months. Still fairly good and in our strongest team, but he has dropped a little.

 

[Litch]

I personally think he's been a level below his best of late.

Kind of agree. What got Fred playing better was playing regularly and Ole seems to consistently changing the midfield depending on the opponent. Fred really suffers and needs a run of games......

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Kind of agree. What got Fred playing better was playing regularly and Ole seems to consistently changing the midfield depending on the opponent. Fred really suffers and needs a run of games......

Our games are coming far too thick and fast for anyone to need a run of games. The tricky bit is avoiding burn-out. Which Ole has been doing fairly well. No way can someone who works as hard as Fred not sit out a few games this season.

 

[Litch]

the way I look at it is that everyone needs the options. When McFred play together, they always try to make available to each other, not only when screening our defense, but also on counter-press and duel challenge. It’s why we could resist most of the high press opponents. Pogba isn’t that type of players. It’s the reality he will never be. I don’t know what’s the solution to have an alternative system. Hope Ole can find one.

I think Fred and Scott play closer together where Pogs can lose his discipline and will wonder. People also forget, when we were beating the top 6 teams last season including City, who was in midfield, Scott and Fred. Unfortunately, we don't have a front line scoring 20 goals each this season...

 

[Litch]

Our games are coming far too thick and fast for anyone to need a run of games. The tricky bit is avoiding burn-out. Which Ole has been doing fairly well. No way can someone who works as hard as Fred not sit out a few games this season.

That's exactly what Fred did last season when there was no Pogs, Scott or Matic up until after Christmas. He's a player that very fit and rarely gets injured. If what your saying is right, why does Ole never rest Bruno, Rashford or Harry? I don't think he's resting him anyway, Ole seems to play Scott and Fred in the big games but goes with Matic and Pogs for the teams that offer a low block.....

 

[Poborsky's hair]

Considering the shit he gets for his shooting it’s worth noting that only a sensational save stopped him scoring an absolute peach of a goal.

Generally played quite well. We’re so much more dominant in midfield when he starts. He really does need to cut out the couple of crazy sloppy moments he seems to have in most games he plays. It’s not a good look. Leaves a bad taste even when he’s had a good game (e.g. today)

I agree with both parts but in terms of his sloppy passing that can be said about any of our midfielders. Today it was him being the more sloppy one but generally he's still did enough today to be one of our better players imo. Won the ball back a lot of times and nearly scored.

BTW compared to a mega star CDM player Partey, who everyone wanted here, Fred's passing was scholes-esque..

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That's exactly what Fred did last season when there was no Pogs, Scott or Matic up until after Christmas. He's a player that very fit and rarely gets injured. If what your saying is right, why does Ole never rest Bruno, Rashford or Harry? I don't think he's resting him anyway, Ole seems to play Scott and Fred in the big games but goes with Matic and Pogs for the teams that offer a low block.....

Because that gives him a chance to rest Fred.

He doesn’t rest Harry because central defenders don’t cover much ground and he doesn’t rest Bruno or Rashford because their replacements are such a huge drop in quality (maybe a stretch on current form).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree with both parts but in terms of his sloppy passing that can be said about any of our midfielders. Today it was him being the more sloppy one but generally he's still did enough today to be one of our better players imo. Won the ball back a lot of times and nearly scored.

BTW compared to a mega star CDM player Partey, who everyone wanted here, Fred's passing was scholes-esque..

I was quite worried about Partey after all the hype. He was a lot worse than Fred though. Good point.

 

[city-puma]

I think Fred and Scott play closer together where Pogs can lose his discipline and will wonder. People also forget, when we were beating the top 6 teams last season including City, who was in midfield, Scott and Fred. Unfortunately, we don't have a front line scoring 20 goals each this season...

It’s so weird that many of us seem not knowing it (they don’t actually follow the team?) and keep picking out Fred as if he is still playing like when he paired with pereira.
This season McFred have not play a lot due to the rotation. But it’s this pair who started our upward climbing after the poor start of the season.

 

[acnumber9]

Apparently, based on what you put here, you don’t. Not even slightly. Anyway, enjoy yourself. If that’s what you can read from a game, it’s fine.

I suppose Roy Keane doesn’t know what makes a midfielder either. We’ll leave it to the real expert, city-puma.

 

[acnumber9]

Again nonsense. Fizzed the ball into the forwards a good few times. There was the flick to Shaw that created the cross. There was a number of occasions and arguably it's his misplaced passes are at times tries to force the pass.....

Yes, that one across our goal was definitely forcing something. Fred has just created this enigma on this forum and no amount of watching United struggle in midfield will seemingly change it. It will always be somebody else’s fault.

 

[city-puma]

I suppose Roy Keane doesn’t know what makes a midfielder either. We’ll leave it to the real expert, city-puma.

Keano picked out Fred to criticize? Is that what you suggest?

 

[acnumber9]

Keano picked out Fred to criticize? Is that what you suggest?

Not this evening that I heard. Just many times before. He probably missed the nuance that only certain people on the internet see.

 

[city-puma]

Yes, that one across our goal was definitely forcing something. Fred has just created this enigma on this forum and no amount of watching United struggle in midfield will seemingly change it. It will always be somebody else’s fault.

You simply don’t understand this is a team sports really.

 

[acnumber9]

You simply don’t understand this is a team sports really.

Of course I don’t. I bow to you.

 

[Ali Dia]

Good point about Partey. He was poor today. He was good in the first match though. Has his form tapered off? I thought he’d be a good signing for us in the DM

 

[paraguayo]

I had to leave the house about minute 60 or so, but when I did I thought he would be getting MotM shouts.

2 best scoring opportunities were created by him at that point, he also intercepted a ball in attack and IIRC it generated a half-chance, and he had good passing between the lines.
Also Arsenal wasn't really able to mount attacks through the middle, where he was..

Did something catastrophic happen after minute 60 for him to be getting dragged around all over this forum?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I had to leave the house about minute 60 or so, but when I did I thought he would be getting MotM shouts.

2 best scoring opportunities were created by him at that point, he also intercepted a ball in attack and IIRC it generated a half-chance, and he had good passing between the lines.
Also Arsenal wasn't really able to mount attacks through the middle, where he was..

Did something catastrophic happen after minute 60 for him to be getting dragged around all over this forum?

Yes. He made one really really bad pass under no pressure. Which almost put Arsenal through on goal. And standard redcafe rules are one bad mistake immediately makes the rest of the performance irrelevant.

 

[kundalini]

Good shot after the corner, that required a super save. A poor pass gave them the chance to counter in the first half, fortunately Lacazette chose to shoot from long distance. Stole possession a few times but some careless moments too.

 

[city-puma]

Not this evening that I heard. Just many times before. He probably missed the nuance that only certain people on the internet see.

Then, whats your logic to bring out Keano to proof your view of Fred’s performance today? No one can get it. It’s starting like we are arguing for the sake of arguing. This is pointless. Let’s take it easy. Just agree we disagree.

 

[city-puma]

Good point about Partey. He was poor today. He was good in the first match though. Has his form tapered off? I thought he’d be a good signing for us in the DM

I thought he is excellent today. He and Xaka dominated the midfield in the second half with their front players. He looks more like a disrupter and Xaka did more in terms of control.

 

[acnumber9]

Then, whats your logic to bring out Keano to proof your view of Fred’s performance today? No one can get it. It’s starting like we are arguing for the sake of arguing. This is pointless. Let’s take it easy. Just agree we disagree.

That maybe not rating Fred as highly as you do isn’t evidence that somebody doesn’t understand football. If you couldn’t piece that together, understanding football is the least of your concern.

 

[acnumber9]

Yes. He made one really really bad pass under no pressure. Which almost put Arsenal through on goal. And standard redcafe rules are one bad mistake immediately makes the rest of the performance irrelevant.

The rest of the performance wasn’t very good though. They ran through our midfield with ease whenever they actually tried to. And it’s a regular problem our midfield has.

 

[stevoc]

Passing was terrible tonight.

Just tonight?

 

[city-puma]

That maybe not rating Fred as highly as you do isn’t evidence that somebody doesn’t understand football. If you couldn’t piece that together, understanding football is the least of your concern.

You are saying Fred’s performance today is too bad to be acceptable. I think it completely nonsense without any ground. This is what we are arguing here.
Football is a team sports. Every player has flaws even for the generational talents. It’s about how team can be set up to hide the flaws and maximize the best as a unit, unless the players have attitude and work ethic issues. I don’t see those issues at all from him today.
I just saw a player trying his best to help the left side, sensed the danger on right because Rashford, pogba could not neutralized their high press and channel run and went to right to help and run back to recover his supposed position, did forward line breaking pass, pushed forward to support our attack, ...
How can one criticize such a performance? He did miss McT as the whole team did.

 

[Ali Dia]

I thought he is excellent today. He and Xaka dominated the midfield in the second half with their front players. He looks more like a disrupter and Xaka did more in terms of control.

everyone dominates the midfield against us. It’s one of the major minus points of playing Pogba and Bruno together. I’m always saying it, we don’t scrap for it in the middle without McFred but that comes with its own limitations. If we won the midfield battle more and higher up I think we’d score a lot more