I think McTominay and Fred make a good combination, just not of the required quality. Trying to fit in both Fernandes and Pogba would require a complete restructure of the midfield set-up.
17
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 10
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Fred and McTominay are not the required quality to overtake City. There's a sentiment of retrospective charity shown to Fred. Gone are his 1-in-2 poor performances; remembered are the sporadic moments he has a good one. Fred is both wildly inconsistent and very suspect in DM when an opposition team is pressing him deep. To settle on these two is to settle for relative mediocrity. Relative, of course, in comparison to Chelsea, Liverpool and City, whom we are competing against. There can be no room for idle sentiment in such a crucial position.
We must improve. These two have a ceiling and they've practically reached it. They are served best by being squad rotation options.....not as the de-facto first choices.
We must improve. These two have a ceiling and they've practically reached it. They are served best by being squad rotation options.....not as the de-facto first choices.
Wrong on so many levels.
Guardiola tried to sign Fred, Fred starts ahead of Fabinho for Brazil.
Maybe just maybe the grass isn't always greener.
You can spot the lads who actually understand football fairly easily in this thread. Not just for not rating Fred but thinking McT is the better player of the two or that Fabinho is clearly miles better or whatever. It’s just sheep following each other at this stage.
This one boogles my mind
Your claim of inconsistency and 1-in-2 poor performances is only true in the second half of last season. I actually agree that if that becomes the norm then we need to improve on him quickly. However that was not the case for the previous 18 months where he was consistently good.
It doesn't help that we rely on him to do most of...well, everything, when he plays with his usual partner of McTominay. Fred ends up doing most of the pressing, most of the running, most of the passing, most of the building play out from the back, most of the passing into our attacking players. Partner him with somebody to provide a better balance and Fred might not just get back to his consistently good form but perhaps step up further.
Do you realize that rating or in this case not rating a particular player doesn't necessarily prove someone does or doesn't understand football? Even professional managers at the top of the game have different philosophies and they will all rate different players very highly that other top managers do not.
Maybe just give this whole ''you people have to understand football to rate Fred'' shtick a rest mate.
Why comment on half of my post? I clearly said saying Mct is a better player when the stats for actual midfield work and the eye test show that he’s a lot better of an all round midfield player? Or that Fabinho is a miles better player? Or that someone like that would come in and finally release Pogba. It’s all just lazy journalism and punditry that’s lapped up and rehashed on here on the regular
Like the guy but he's not up to the required standard.Bench player.
Well I only bolded part of it, the rest of your post was still there mate. It's not as if I'm quoting you out of context is it?
My reply was about your whole post if you read it. My point stands if someone doesn't rate Fred, and for whatever reason rates McTominay and/or Fabinho as a better player (just as top managers rate some players higher than others) that doesn't mean they don't understand football. They simply have a different opinion than you, which was my point.
To be fair, Fred is almost objectively a better player so if someone was to say they rate McTominay more without much context (i.e highlight certain aspects where he may excel) then yes I think we should seriously question their judgement and understanding of football
Both of Fred's professional managers rate him.
Fred and Mctominay individually are good enough to start for United (especially Fred but even Mctominay). But as a pair in midfield 2, they aren't creative at all. They need to be paired with another creative midfielder for them to work. You can't have 11 superstars in the team. And both of them perform the role of workhorse admirably well.
And wtf that has to do with how limited of a footballer Fred is? Ben fecking Chilwell was starting over Luke Shaw just 2 weeks ago? Fabinho is miles better than Fred, it's laughable to even compare.
Fred doesn't start ahead of Fabinho , infact Fabinho has never been regular for Brazil ,earlier he was mostly used as RB and even now has Casemiro ahead of him in his best position so he is basically a back up and his limited Role in Brazilian team has nothing to do with Fred .
Neither of which are relevant to his performances for us, which though having improved still havent been great. And just look at some of the players foro England starting over others, Grealish and Bellingham arent starting for example
Though the player comparisons I dont understand. Fabinho has put in bettr performances for Liverpool than Fred us, though I dont get how he is so highly rated and McTominay has been no better than Fred for us either.
If anything, national teams and performances of players there have very little significance of how good a player is to be fair. I've seen Fabinho play for Liverpool regularly and Fred for us, putting them in the same sentence if wrong on so many levels. Fabinho is a world class player while Fred comes nowhere near.
Fabinho is a world class DM who unfortunately has another monster playing ahead of him in National team while Fred has his uses but you are right he is nowhere near Fabinho ,but if he is going to be regular starter for us next season he would certainly benefit if we Can bring somebody of Fabinho's level and profile.
If we can bring someone of the profile and level of Fabinho, what's the point of Fred exactly? He doesn't bring nearly enough in attack to be considered as an option as the B2B next to the CDM, McTominay on the other hand maybe can do that, but is also not consistent enough.
Fabinho is the better CDM, but as a general midfielder he isn't better at all. He can't cover the ground like Fred, his passing isn't any better.
People just like to shit on Fred for some bizarre reason, if he played for Liverpool or Chelsea you'd have a very different opinion.
Is actually playing really well for Brasil as well. Just proves players are at the mercy of the system they are put in. I definitely see Fred’s flaws in our setup but he’s not easy to upgrade on and he’s vital out of possession for us.
Devil’s advocate to your Pep comment though is he also wanted Sanchez…never read into x or y manager wanting a player as a sign of a players’ quality.
Yes I'm sure they do, I'm also sure there are professional managers who would rate him even more highly and some not so much. Which was my point.
You realize my post wasn't a criticism of Fred yes?
Well Sanchez wasn't a bad player was he? he just lost his ability through injuries which nobody could have predicted.
He would have played him as a false 9 striker where he was best anyway, he rarely played on the wing for Arsenal anymore.
Anyway the point is Guardiola obviously sees something in Fred to want him, what is it he sees that the average fan doesn't? hmm.
I’m agreeing with you Fred is a good player FYI. I don’t agree though that you can judge a player based off whether another manager wants them however.
To be fair, Fred is almost objectively a better player so if someone was to say they rate McTominay more without much context (i.e highlight certain aspects where he may excel) then yes I think we should seriously question their judgement and understanding of football
Almost objectively better? Eh.
I would say I rate Fred higher than McTominay but to form an opinion on someones entire understanding of football (or lack thereof) based on how highly they rate one player is ridiculous isn't it?
We all have preferences for certain types of players and certain styles of players, we all have blind spots, favourites and players we don't like. Is there anyone on this forum who's followed football for a long time who can say they've never rated a young player very highly who turned out to be crap or vice versa?
As I was saying even professional coaches/managers do this with players.
Fabinho is a batter midfielder than Fred by a fecking mile, covering the ground? He runs more? Yeah he does. He covers ground with feck all efficiency, not good enough in defense and nowhere near good enough in attack. Fabinho on the other hand has been the anchor of a PL and CL winning teams. If you think Fred can replicate that influence on the Liverpool team, than you really overrate him. There were also people blubbering the same bullshit about Kante, and how Fred matches him or is just as good, the reality is very different.
Fred is not a bad player either, some people just tend to overrate him, as some try to underrate him. In reality we need better and that is evident.
Obviously Fred wouldn't play the same role as Fabinho as he isn't a CDM. Just like there's a reason why Fabinho is on the bench for Brazil in a 4-2-3-1, he can't do the work like Fred can.
If he played for Liverpool he'd happily do 1 of the front CM positions like Henderson/Milner/Wijnaldum.
You obviously don't rate him so that's your opinion, but you heavily underrate what he brings to the team.
If someone think that McT is better player, can you even imagine McT in Brazil squad ?
Fred is on another level, the only advantage McT has is height and goals, i know that its important but we have other players for that just judging on midfielders ability Fred is miles better and i would gladly sell Scott before Fred. Maybe we can give Scott and Jessie for Rice ? That would be perfect
2 seasons ago before Bruno come in and we played a little bit different tactics Fred was player of the season candidate, he is very good player but he is not pure DM so his performances will never be as good as people expect.
Fred is on another level, the only advantage McT has is height and goals, i know that its important but we have other players for that just judging on midfielders ability Fred is miles better and i would gladly sell Scott before Fred. Maybe we can give Scott and Jessie for Rice ? That would be perfect
2 seasons ago before Bruno come in and we played a little bit different tactics Fred was player of the season candidate, he is very good player but he is not pure DM so his performances will never be as good as people expect.
Where has this Fabinho vs Fred comparison come from? They occupy different positions in midfield, simply put Fabinho is a DM and Fred is box to box. I'm sure if Fred had to compete with Casemiro level player he'd also be on the bench so saying using him starting over Fabinho as proof he's better makes no sense. Fabinho is quite clearly a better player than Fred, I know its a United forum but still let's be real.
Saying that, I don't mind Fred and actually think we can win trophies with him in the side but the big problem is he gets far too many touches of the ball. We should never give him the responsibility of starting attacks, he hasn't got the ability to do it consistently. He needs to be paired with a passer in midfield that sits deeper than he does.
Saying that, I don't mind Fred and actually think we can win trophies with him in the side but the big problem is he gets far too many touches of the ball. We should never give him the responsibility of starting attacks, he hasn't got the ability to do it consistently. He needs to be paired with a passer in midfield that sits deeper than he does.
He'd happily do those positions but I am not sure whether he would make it work. All of them are better passers and better in their attacking game, and their most consistent in Wijnaldum is a class above in most aspects of the game.
I don't rate him as good enough, I do rate what he brings to the team, we just need much more.
Of course it's a slippery slope to use stats to 'objectively' compare players but in this case, Fred's contributions in pretty much everything except goals pretty much obliterates McTominay. It's especially true if you value what a midfielder should be doing on and off the ball respective of their position.
I can understand preferences and favouritism but I think if someone is rating them with this bias, then yes I think it's fair game to question their judgement. You can have your favourite but that should be separate to rating based on ability and performance. Of course this happens with all the players as evident in the performance threads but some need calling out more than others. Lindelof is one, who has fan boys and perhaps Fred, who imo receives a bit unfair criticism.
As for the bolded bit that's a different scenario as you're talking about rating potential and predicting/hoping for improvement. In this case, I would do a double take if anyone said 'McTominay is a better midfielder than Fred'. Has he got the potential? Yes, of course he can, as players can improve all the time but that's not the issue here. If someone said 'I prefer McTominay because he's really good at running with the ball, has that running/attacking power and I feel we should utilise his strengths more compared to Fred, who is an all-arounder busy bee' fair enough.
Last edited:
Every manager would have wanted the player Sanchez was before the shite one showed up for us.
Reality is ball winning is also a part of defense, and to say he doesn't do that at a high level is factually incorrect.
Fred is good player, he has very good engine, runs all day and he is a pest in the midfield. He should improve on the loose touches, that's his biggest drawback. It creates too much pressure on him and also on the team, when he doesn't do that, he is an asset to the team as he is a good dribbler for a CM, plays nice passes on the ground.
Glad he is playing regularly for Brazilian NT. After all the shit he got for a year, it's a good story that he turned it around.
Glad he is playing regularly for Brazilian NT. After all the shit he got for a year, it's a good story that he turned it around.
Kante does that at high level, Fred does that at average level.
At least now only half of your statement is factually incorrect.
Tearing it up
Edit: in case it wasn't clear, posting as a joke cause it's funny when Fred tries skill as it's really not his game.
Obviously this one error doesn't mean he didn't play well.
Last edited:
- Status