That certainly isn't this season's stats
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That certainly isn't this season's stats
Can you post those stats please. It doesn’t surprise me honestly, he is all hassle and running but very easily overrun.
Granted it was pre lockdown but he certainly hasn't done himself any favours post. Also in my original post I said midfielder, it's actually player...
It’s evident in the way he plays, he runs his socks off but his general defensive contribution is very debatable.
The article you linked is clearly talking about this season
Here you can see he is still the most dribbled past player in the league per 90 this season with 2.6.
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...erStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020
Compared to the other top 5 leagues:
Serie A - https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/1...7835/PlayerStatistics/Italy-Serie-A-2019-2020
La Liga - https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...17702/PlayerStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2019-2020
Bundesliga - https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/8...PlayerStatistics/Germany-Bundesliga-2019-2020
Ligue 1 - https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/7...593/PlayerStatistics/France-Ligue-1-2019-2020
So now only 1 person has been dribbled past more than Fred per 90 in the top 5 leagues which is Téji Savanier in Ligue 1 at 2.7.
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What is this? Get rid of Fred?
Some people can just forget how much he gave when we didn't have Bruno or Pogba...sigh.
Some people can just forget how much he gave when we didn't have Bruno or Pogba...sigh.
Seen it many times, depending on how the players starts, impacts on people's view of them irrespective if it's no longer the issue. Fred has been the constant and I'd argue without his form mid season, we wouldn't even be in a position to challenge since Bruno. People need to remember the run of games playing with different partners was week in week out either being the best or second to the best player, including on the other team. Fully understand why Pogs comes back in, but let's not forget Fred's contribution and let's make references to this seasons Fred and not his first one.
The problem for me is the system and it relies on a conventional DM like Matic but let's not forget that he hasn't always covered himself in glory since signing the new contract and even more recently, Pogs has amounted to 2 goals conceded by his error. People talk about the drop off when Scott and Fred play, but did people see how much we have struggled over the past few games? Also when them to start, it's not like Rashford and Martial often don't play.
The problem for me is the system and it relies on a conventional DM like Matic but let's not forget that he hasn't always covered himself in glory since signing the new contract and even more recently, Pogs has amounted to 2 goals conceded by his error. People talk about the drop off when Scott and Fred play, but did people see how much we have struggled over the past few games? Also when them to start, it's not like Rashford and Martial often don't play.
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So what? Most dribbled past is useless stat, maybe he should be "Best positioning" player and shouldn't attempt tackles only so that "dribbled past" will be low.
Dribbled past is nothing but unsuccessful tackle, unless you see where exactly the player lost the tackle or in which scenario (like whether there was a covering player or last man) it's a nothing stat.
Jeez, we reached again the point that we would be lucky if we could receive 20 mil for him..
He is overall top 5 this year for us. He was carrying the team when Perreira and Lingard were wearing the invisibility cloak. I would not be against selling him as for now he seems to have to compete with Pogba, however to call him awful and deadwood that nobody would buy is just a huge lie. If Lingard is valued 20 mil. because he had 10 good games 3 years ago and he scored against Tunisja and Panama, then Fred is easily valued 40-50 mil.
He is overall top 5 this year for us. He was carrying the team when Perreira and Lingard were wearing the invisibility cloak. I would not be against selling him as for now he seems to have to compete with Pogba, however to call him awful and deadwood that nobody would buy is just a huge lie. If Lingard is valued 20 mil. because he had 10 good games 3 years ago and he scored against Tunisja and Panama, then Fred is easily valued 40-50 mil.
In the context of Fred being our most defensive midfielder it is hardly a useless stat
It is if Fred was dribbled past in our final third when he tried to win the ball higher up, instead of losing tackle in our defensive third.
Not sure who came up with "dribbled past" name for that stat, should be fired. People get all wrong ideas with that name.
It's mainly because he presses fast and hard, he either wins it or gets done. Perhaps he needs to find the right balance but I think in a team that presses properly he'd be great.
If he had a CDM behind him sweeping it up he'd cause loads of turn overs, but usually he's the last line.
What I like about Fred though is he never switches off or gives up, he might miss the first tackle but he's always there ratting about and nicking it away again.
Agree.
I really like Fred and appreciate him being one of the best players in our squad this season.
However, I would be lying if I believed that Fred could not be improved upon to add creativity in the middle. The reason that Pogba and Bruno are so good is because both players are creative either from deep or further up the pitch. To balance this out we need a proper single handed CDM.
Fred has maybe shown Ole enough that he isnt a sole CDM type player and is better focusing as a CM. However when he does play CM he isnt particularly creative either. I'd be happy if he was happy to play a squad role at United but I think he does block of a piece of the squad that could be covered by a new CDM as well as a new creative CM.
On top of that Mctomminay doesn't play a totally different box to box game to Fred either and he can also cover CDM and CM - he is also a United born player who is more than decent enough to get a thumbs up over a player who doesnt exactly scream creativity and finesse - more just good quality hard work..
I have nothing against Fred but just trying to suss out things that may happen in the future.
However, I would be lying if I believed that Fred could not be improved upon to add creativity in the middle. The reason that Pogba and Bruno are so good is because both players are creative either from deep or further up the pitch. To balance this out we need a proper single handed CDM.
Fred has maybe shown Ole enough that he isnt a sole CDM type player and is better focusing as a CM. However when he does play CM he isnt particularly creative either. I'd be happy if he was happy to play a squad role at United but I think he does block of a piece of the squad that could be covered by a new CDM as well as a new creative CM.
On top of that Mctomminay doesn't play a totally different box to box game to Fred either and he can also cover CDM and CM - he is also a United born player who is more than decent enough to get a thumbs up over a player who doesnt exactly scream creativity and finesse - more just good quality hard work..
I have nothing against Fred but just trying to suss out things that may happen in the future.
Has this "dribbled against" stat ever been a thing before last season and VVD? Freds role is to press in midfield not to be the last line of defense; it's useless stat.
I didn't realise this! But hes not really an offensive midfielder either so, umm.. hard to define what he does then
Which Team do you think will fetch 40-50m for him?
Yeah, I meant specifically with having those two with him, and to a lesser extent a properly functioning team around him. There's quite a big difference in playing in the midfield in a dysfunctional team that basically has no right wing, no #10 and no creative midfielder next to him, to then doing it with a team that is properly set up with strong players in every position.
I'm not saying I necessarily think he will work out in that position, but I do wish he'd been given a bit more of an opportunity. He got about 25 minutes there against Bournemouth and did very well in that time, much better than McTominay has been in his chances during this period.
Inter
In all seriousness I don't follow all the major teams to know which one needs a player like Fred. Given that everything is uncertain with Covid, and probably the majority of teams will prefer not to spend that much, I understand that probably no team can afford him. But that doesn't mean we should sell him for 10 or 20 millions because he is currently more valuable than 20 millions for us. Or in case we sell him for 20 millions which player can be bought, assuming a better player, who does not cost a fortune? We are now in the weird timeframe when teams probably wont spend, so prices go down but at the same time the prices for our targets remain high, because the prices are not adjusted completely yet (see Sancho, Grealish). Perhaps, the prices will be adjusted better in one month or in January.
What I was arguing is that Fred played an important role for us this year. He is a damn good player (IMO), so we should not be in hurry to sell him. That's why i said that under the current circumstances if we are offered 40 millions we should sell him. But not at the range of 20 millions.
I kept saying it but people act like you make stuff up because you hate players, not because its something that you've come to a conclusion on based on watching matches and comparing stats. Fred is someone who tries, but ultimately players go past him for fun. Because he tries so hard he also wins the ball a fair bit, just a lot less often than players go right past him
I hope the people that don't rate Fred don't rate Mctominay also
Agreed with this then. It depends on how crucial his selling on getting this "better" replacement. I still think he's good enough as squad player.Inter
In all seriousness I don't follow all the major teams to know which one needs a player like Fred. Given that everything is uncertain with Covid, and probably the majority of teams will prefer not to spend that much, I understand that probably no team can afford him. But that doesn't mean we should sell him for 10 or 20 millions because he is currently more valuable than 20 millions for us. Or in case we sell him for 20 millions which player can be bought, assuming a better player, who does not cost a fortune? We are now in the weird timeframe when teams probably wont spend, so prices go down but at the same time the prices for our targets remain high, because the prices are not adjusted completely yet (see Sancho, Grealish). Perhaps, the prices will be adjusted better in one month or in January.
What I was arguing is that Fred played an important role for us this year. He is a damn good player (IMO), so we should not be in hurry to sell him. That's why i said that under the current circumstances if we are offered 40 millions we should sell him. But not at the range of 20 millions.
And you’d be right. Okay so he may not have an automatic place in the starting 11 but he’s great cover and can operate all across midfield in my view and do a decent job when needed.
People have short memories. He was consistently one of our best players for weeks on end prior to Bruno’s arrival.
Fred playing the ball winning role is more likely for him to get dribbled past. Even then statistics suggest he is one of best in that role. If Fred is to play the number 6 role, I am sure he won't be dribbled past as much.
Fred's statistics before the lockdown.
– Fred has made 140 passes into the final third for United this season, more than any other player.
– The Brazilian has also created more chances than any of his team-mates with 68. His 60 chances created from open play is also the highest figure at United.
– He has won possession of the ball 221 times this season, more than any other midfielder in the top six.
– Fred covered the most ground of any United player in the club’s first five Premier League games of 2020.
– Aaron Wan-Bissaka is the only United player to make more successful tackles per 90 minutes than Fred this season.
– His 337 passes when under pressure also lead the way at the club.
– The midfielder has made 188 successful pressures, more than any other United player this season.
Yeh. He was pretty good pre-lockdown. It's just he's one of the non-starters that could fetch good money, if we need funding.
He was good last night. I rate Fred's performances this season more highly than most on here, he was phenomenal for a 2 month stretch in the middle of the season, especially in the big games.
That said, as much as I think there's a player more than good enough as a squad option in Fred, he's not a rotation type player. He just doesn't strike me as one of those players that can slot in after a while out and perform immediately (yesterday aside). He needs runs of games to build up his sharpness and confidence in terms of passing, relieving pressure and pressing. That probably applies to a lot of players but I think it does to Fred more than most.
We'd make a loss on him for sure if we sold him but I wouldn't be against it. That said, he's definitely staying this season so no use considering it. Nice player to have around either way.
That said, as much as I think there's a player more than good enough as a squad option in Fred, he's not a rotation type player. He just doesn't strike me as one of those players that can slot in after a while out and perform immediately (yesterday aside). He needs runs of games to build up his sharpness and confidence in terms of passing, relieving pressure and pressing. That probably applies to a lot of players but I think it does to Fred more than most.
We'd make a loss on him for sure if we sold him but I wouldn't be against it. That said, he's definitely staying this season so no use considering it. Nice player to have around either way.
There are few players who play in the DM role that are dribbled past more than they win a tackle. Fred is one of those few
I'm confused. Fred is only dribbled past this much because of how he presses like a mad dog. He's not passive or has been instructed not to be passive and the more passive you are the less you will be dribbled past.
Just because he's played in the left of the double pivot like Matic doesn't mean he's actually playing Matic's role. Matic's role is a disciplined one and Fred has never played or been asked to play that disciplined role. So whether he can or he can't do it is purely opinionated
Just because he's played in the left of the double pivot like Matic doesn't mean he's actually playing Matic's role. Matic's role is a disciplined one and Fred has never played or been asked to play that disciplined role. So whether he can or he can't do it is purely opinionated
So what? What good is having money in the bank if it means us having a thinner squad? Surely we want good non starters?
Reckon that's a very pretty fair description of Fred. So many posters on here who actually rate him. Can't see a footballer in him tbf, and certainly can't see a future for him at utd.
The worst thing for Fred is this lazy cliche of always being mentioned in the same sentence as McTomminay. I do understand that they can play similar roles (I.e, box to box) but they both have such different strengths and weaknesses. Fred is far more assured on the ball and I’d argue has better positional awareness than McTomminay. To be honest, Fred has been miles better this season than McTomminay overall but for whatever reason they always get lumped in together.
If you can’t see what he brings then you clearly didn’t watch us this season. Fred has been one of our most consistent performers. He brings excellent energy, strong positional awareness, good composure on the ball and this season far more press resistance. He’s a very talented player and I think you are doing him a massive injustice by missing his strong elements.
I still think we got ourselves scamed with him, while he has improved from his first season where he was useless, he still isnt good enough to be starting, and we paid more for him than for Bruno.
I like him as a rotational player, but damn he was way too expensive to be just that.
I like him as a rotational player, but damn he was way too expensive to be just that.
Its really so unfair he gets this much stick.
But the only slot in the midfield that is open for someone is the Matic role because he cannot play every game.
So if Fred cannot play that role, he is a backup option to Pogba.
If Fred wants to play that role, he needs to be alot more disciplined int he defensive role. I think if he can add that to his game, we could get away with him in there rotating with Matic in certain games for this season.
Whats confusing about it? We had Ander there before who worked just as hard and got forward even more to score goals as well. He didn't get beat more than he won the ball. If you look at the other DMs around they dont either. Because its important. He's a better passer than some of them though
I brought this up many months ago
But here's the DMs that got beat the most per 90 mins
Theres other hard working ball winners on the list who still win the ball far more than they are beaten
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Our midfielders not named Pogba/Bruno or Matic are not the greatest in the league so having better stats than those guys isn't otherworldly. Just saying
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A bit scummy of them to use the referee's wrong decision to book Fred for diving as the image there.
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