17
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 12
- Status
I said that we can sell him, if we need funding. Of course the funding is to purchase a (potentially) better player.
He is the type of player who seems to need a lot of game time to get things going.
Problem is that he is not that good of player for us to do that.
Problem is that he is not that good of player for us to do that.
My opinion is that we should sell and get a genuine CDM , that will pay the team better in my opinion.
My main concern with Fred was his concentration levels and anticipation and he's improved massively on both.
In 2019 he would receive the ball and wouldn't know what to do next, his form when he carried us proved that he is more than good enough to be a rotational player. He surprised me the other night and slotted in no fuss (I know it was LASK..)
In 2019 he would receive the ball and wouldn't know what to do next, his form when he carried us proved that he is more than good enough to be a rotational player. He surprised me the other night and slotted in no fuss (I know it was LASK..)
Those are just some of his concerns - Still to work on, strength as he's still very lightweight and not being beaten so easily
As much as I respect your views I must beg to disagree. Composure is a quality he certainly lacks. Players with composure can stop up the game when needed, play that decisive pass etc. Fred never has the ball for more than 3 seconds. You say he's talented? Tell me his skills? Can he beat his man? Can he shoot? Can he tackle? Can he make that final pass/goal assist in thefinal 3rd?
C'mon a good engine and having energy doesn't make him good enough for Man utd.
Can he beat his man? Yes absolutely, he’s got quick feet and decent acceleration to h past his marker. This season he’s massively improved his press resistance as he can beat a man. He’s even had one of the skills of the season beating two men on the touch line (sorry can’t remember the game)
Can he shoot? I think that’s his weakness while in a Utd shirt but I think he can do better. The goals he scored in the Europa showed good technique.
Can he tackle? Absolutely! Regardless of the dribbled past stats (he plays as the aggressor in a midfield 2) Fred is a good tackler who adds much greater defence contributions to the team compared to Pogba.
Final third passing? I don’t think he’s world class in this department, but equally he’s levels above McTomminay in this skill. He’s played some wonderful passes this season (Last first leg to Mata) and does have the ability to play between the lines into the striker.
Overall: Fred brings a strong balance to the team and I actually think he played very well alongside Bruno and Matic before the break. I think where you are getting confused is that he’s probably not world class in any of those departments but when combined he’s got a nice broad silk set which means he is a good compliment to other players.
You're going to need to explain how being someone who presses a lot, but with less than 50% success rate and a low tackle percentage are good. Also the chart doesnt show Matic or Andreas, nor is it specific to a position. For example Fred and McTominay played the most as the 2 in our 4-2-3-1 formation with 17 and 18 games each. Fernandes played 0 but he's compared to them. He played the same role Andreas played a lot earlier in the season, but hes not on it. Matic played the exact same position as Fred and McTominay and they arent on it.
You don't rate Fred. That much is clear
I think he's a good passer and has plenty of effort when we dont have the ball but very little success. I'd rate him highly if he improved and got stronger and players didnt go past him with ease.
Bit surprised with your non rating of Fred considering I love your energy and consistency debating the Lindelof fan boys on how he's just a very average player.
Anyways I think you make a good point about Fred's games are mostly played with two deep midfielders, so his performances may be skewered with the 'extra' midfield protection. However, I do think those 'success' rate and low precentage tackles stats are out of context. An interesting stat would be the number of times he's up in a player's face per 90mins or condensing the area of the play by being a body there to stop the opponent from having open space/play an easy pass i.e something your Lindelof's would happily cede because he's passive.
As a few have mentioned already, he's a high interaction/pressure player. Making tackles/putting pressure on players/closing space is the quintessential attributes needed in midfield battles and how teams play in general and I think he's the best in the squad in that with also a good all around ability base.
The battles bit is important because and I've said this before but pre-lockdown, Fred would have been my pick to partner Pogba. To me the platform is already broken in that Ole seems set on this 4-2-1-3. I don't like two deep midfielders as it limits Pogba's influence and I don't like a '10' because it's ceding midfield control and a bit naive with the 'he's the creator, let him do anything he wants'. And as we've seen, when we're not fresh and able to bully teams with our athleticism and individual ability, opposing teams can very easily have a go against us because we lack solid team patterns of play and efficient shape movement.
Anyways I digress, I like Fred because he has great pitch coverage and plugs holes and gaps at a high rate. In the dysfunctional massive midfield gap we see with our uncoordinated pressing/playing out of the back, his energy, quick feet and ability to affect or try to affect play is a good bet to work in this current system. He's not perfect and can be very rash/drawn to the ball but his other intangibles can be very useful for us.
I absolutely agree he's useful. Especially as our current DM Matic doesnt have the greatest mobility, having Fred to come off the bench and add effort and energy to the midfield is great. The problem I have is with the posters that keep talking about how he was our best player this season till Fernandes came in, or that he's great. He has his strengths and weaknesses. He's a good passer, but not good enough that we didnt miss Pogba a great deal when he was out. And you cant fault his effort. But effort doesnt always mean you're great at something.
For example Fred came in and pretty much replaced Ander - Ander was someone who was also a high workrate player closing players down and winning the ball even more than Fred, but he didn't get beat by players running the ball straight past him. And there arent that many DMs who do have that issue. He's better than most as a passer but he's worse than them at the very important part of being a defensive midfielder - helping the defense by making it hard to play against us.
I don't get. I agree players go past him but he is a box to box not a DM or CB
He plays, and specializes in a 4-2-3-1 system. He played there in Ukraine when we bought him. Its what we play now and where he plays. The 2 are 2x DMs, deeper than a normal CM position and the 3 in front are pushed on from a normal CM position. So yes he is playing a DM role
He isn't. Would you say Pogba is a DM
No point gaslighting, we can see very easily
This was his average position Vs. LASK in his most recent match. Tell me he isnt playing DM
Going by that Ighalo Mata James and Lingard were all attacking midfieldersNo point gaslighting, we can see very easily
This was his average position Vs. LASK in his most recent match. Tell me he isnt playing DM
Yes they spent most of the game in attacking areas. Now tell me again why Fred spent the majority of the game as our 3rd deepest outfield player after the 2 CBs?
Only if you can tell me why Mata Lingard Ighalo and James supposedly spent most of the game in an attacking midfielders position.
Because they had to come back when we didnt have the ball. Else they'd have been offside. They are attacking players. The 2 DMs are there to keep team shape and opperate in their own half so have no concern for offside
Fred is not a DM. Would you call Paul Pogba a DM??
Yes he plays DM in a 4-2-3-1 system.
You could pick amongst the "younger" players in the squad who have good fitness and any one of them could play the role Fred does. Some would do it better.
He has zero creativity. I've actually noticed when we get on the front foot players not giving him the pass as they know it will end in nothing.
He has zero creativity. I've actually noticed when we get on the front foot players not giving him the pass as they know it will end in nothing.
Well the one we do pick (McTominay) definitely can't. He must be absolute dog shit then.
When Fred was holding our midfield together with no Pogba, Rashford, Bruno, Matic et al, these people that are saying he's not good enough, what were you saying then? The season didn't start in January and trust me might have been stuck in 5th, we would have been much lower without his input. Not saying he's the answer but even I'd look better playing with Bruno and Pogba, than Scott in that form. Remember when Matic didn't have Bruno and Pogba either??????
I
Don't see McT playing the same role as Fred. Totally different player! McT is more of a DM and he does that role very well imo. Fred more box to box. Problem being he's clueless in the final 3rd. Daniel James, for example, in that role would bring more to the table.
The stat is rubbish. Even if they do go past him he gets back at them and sticks, 2,3,4,5 tackles till he gets his man. They won’t be accounting for that and anyone who has watched us knows that is true. He hounds people until they screw up and he can steal he ball or slows them up enough so someone can come and help.
No, no he doesnt. They go right past him
I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous. Fred, who was our best midfielder and one of our best players for most of the season, is doing a worse job than what Daniel James could have done?
Key words being 'he plays DM' not that Pogba is a DM. Neither Pogba and Fred are DMs they are both box to box players. You are the only person I've seen ever call Fred a DM. So I don't even want this to drag on because you are alone in your view. So let's agree to disagree
Matic gets forward more than Fred. Its actually really weird that you are upset that someone who is deployed in a DM position is being judged on how well he stops players going past him. Its like a striker being judged on how well he converts good chances to goals. Its the most important part of the position criteria. It doesnt mean a striker who is really good at other things isnt good, but its a big concern if he isnt that good at the main task of the role
Like I said before. It's obvious you don't rate Fred so there's no point arguing
Matic is a different player to Fred. It's very weird you can't see that. They both have different styles. You can't tell Matic to press like Fred, he could end up fainting. And for the last time Fred is a box to box. He gets past easily because he is not a DM. That is why people say we have only one DM in Matic. Fred is not a DM and he can't be because he is dribbled past easily. Him being deployed there doesn't mean it is his natural position. He's a box to box. Fred for the last time is not a defensive midfielder and he is dribbled past easily because he is not a DM or a CB. How many times does this need to be said before you understand
Whats his natural position then? Because we bought him for £50 million playing that position for Shakhtar in a 2 DM lineup and now we play one ourselves with him there. If he's never been used in his "natural position" its because its not his natural position
Fred's last champions league game for Shakhtar before we bought him, a 1-0 loss to Roma
He's the number 8 thats very slightly deeper than his partner in a 4-2-3-1 . In the home leg Fred was the furthest forward of the two, but they were both still on average in their own half as a duo DM pairing. Thats his position. Thats why we bought him for the huge amount we did
He's the number 8 thats very slightly deeper than his partner in a 4-2-3-1 . In the home leg Fred was the furthest forward of the two, but they were both still on average in their own half as a duo DM pairing. Thats his position. Thats why we bought him for the huge amount we did
@Ekeke I can't keep going back and forth with you. You're the only person I've seen that thinks Fred is a DM so I'll leave you to that belief. Enjoy
I wish you were the only person who starts with a concluded opinion on a player and works backwards from there but you arent.
I don't agree that Fred was our best midfielder and he's certainly nowhere near best player for most of the season. No point you and I going furher with this. You see something in him I don't and never will. End of!
I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous. Fred, who was our best midfielder and one of our best players for most of the season, is doing a worse job than what Daniel James could have done?
- Status