Forza Motorsport 4

CassiusClaymore said:
Forza 2 was one (and still is) one of my standout 360 titles. 3 I got bored with pretty quick and the changes to the auction house took away what was a large chunk of the fun for me.

It's an incredibly polished product but something I'm not in a hurry to own and something I don't really have room for in a season packed with AAA titles.

F1 provides me with my driving fix and despite all it's faults (of which there are many) it shits all over Forza as a pure adrenaline packed racer.
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F1 2010/2011 are faked to feck and shit at pretty much most things. However, it does give you the sense of speed and competition that you want from an F1 game, and in doing that instantly does what it's supposed to - to appeal to the type of gamer buying them.

There is nothing wrong with liking them, nothing at all. Just like there's nothing wrong with buying racing games and liking the customisation of the paintwork and buying and selling, more than the actual racing. If it's in there, people will use it and like it.

Perception is different though, you really shouldn't be spending your hard earned (or otherwise) money on Forza if you just want speed or better customisation of the cars because you are going to be dissapointed and think a pretty good game is shit. Anything by Codemasters is right up your alley, and that's where the pennies should go, and that's what you will (and rightly so) enjoy :)
 
Indeed. I've never thought Forza was shit though on any level though.

I just can't justify having 3 copies of the same game sitting on my shelf and truth be told I wouldn't have bothered with F1 either if I hadn't traded in last years some 5 months back.

But you're right, essentially they are 2 completely different beasts.

I don't think I've ever met a better online community btw than the Forza 2 crowd. Some of the artwork bought, traded and sold was truly stunning and many a fun night was had racing souped up minis round Suzuka.

I probably will pick this up at some point actually. All this talk has made me nostalgic now.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
Indeed. I've never thought Forza was shit though on any level though.

I just can't justify having 3 copies of the same game sitting on my shelf and truth be told I wouldn't have bothered with F1 either if I hadn't traded in last years some 5 months back.

But you're right, essentially they are 2 completely different beasts.

I don't think I've ever met a better online community btw than the Forza 2 crowd. Some of the artwork bought, traded and sold was truly stunning and many a fun night was had racing souped up minis round Suzuka.

I probably will pick this up at some point actually. All this talk has made me nostalgic now.
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That's because Forza 2 was the pinnacle then of what racing gamers wanted. It was still borne of an actual sim (thus great to play), but got less stuffy and introduced a decent design/auction side.

3 tried too hard to appeal more to that crowd, whilst forgetting it was still supposed to be a driving game. It's handled like a 2D racer, and laid out like only people who wanted force feeding were supposed to play it. 4 is an unknown bag to me until tomorrow, but I'm not expecting fireworks to be honest :(
 
Redlambs said:
What are you going on about? So a certain genre doesn't sell as well as another, big shock! Did you know certain movies, good or bad, take more money than others? Did you see the sales figures for Duke Nukem compared to a thousand better games?

You aren't going to buy this game, you don't like driving games enough to buy a whole new system for. You just want it to not look as pretty as GT5 or sell as well. The truth is if roles were reversed and GT5 was on the 360 and Forza on the PS3 your opinions would be reversed too.




They have and will continue to do so. I know this, you suspect it, most apparently don't care. What's the point here?




Forza 4 may be great or it may be shite, I'll play the demo myself tomorrow. What I'm not going to do is start comparing it to GT5 (at least not on here), I'm going to compare it to 2 and 3 and see if it is improved or not. That way people might have a genuine idea of whether or not it's worth buying, not some biased opinion based on the silicon that runs it.
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I don't know what you're babbling on about in all that to be honest, you've obviously had a bad day. It simply goes back to the point I made earlier that I don't think that sim racers fit the XB360 demographic in general. It's a tragedy IMO that Microsoft have dumped PC gamers on the whole to focus on their XB360 demographic. If anything this game should be more sim and more focused on the PC and they could still release an XB360 version of it. You're the one that's always complaining about dumbed down games and up-ports from consoles. They wanted this series to sell on XB360 like GT does, but it's not going to happen because of the demographic. What that statement has to do with your babbling above I really don't know.
 
WeasteDevil said:
I don't know what you're babbling on about in all that to be honest, you've obviously had a bad day. It simply goes back to the point I made earlier that I don't think that sim racers fit the XB360 demographic in general. It's a tragedy IMO that Microsoft have dumped PC gamers on the whole to focus on their XB360 demographic. If anything this game should be more sim and more focused on the PC and they could still release an XB360 version of it. You're the one that's always complaining about dumbed down games and up-ports from consoles. They wanted this series to sell on XB360 like GT does, but it's not going to happen because of the demographic. What that statement has to do with your babbling above I really don't know.
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At least try to make some sense. No one is talking about sims, unless you count the "real driving simulator" on the box of a certain game :lol:

Sims don't work on consoles full stop, be it the 360 or PS3 - unless you can point me to a game that proves otherwise on either? Again, what is your point here? You don't really have one since you've never played Forza and without the internet forums you wouldn't beable to tell me whether or not it's better than GT5 and why.


My point still stands firm. Roles reversed and the games on alternative formats, your opinion would be reversed too. Oh and I've had a chilled day, thanks for the thought ;)
 
Redlambs said:
At least try to make some sense. No one is talking about sims, unless you count the "real driving simulator" on the box of a certain game :lol:

Sims don't work on consoles full stop, be it the 360 or PS3 - unless you can point me to a game that proves otherwise on either? Again, what is your point here? You don't really have one since you've never played Forza and without the internet forums you wouldn't beable to tell me whether or not it's better than GT5 and why.


My point still stands firm. Roles reversed and the games on alternative formats, your opinion would be reversed too. Oh and I've had a chilled day, thanks for the thought ;)
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I have played Forza, read it right, I said that I've never played Forza 2.

Neither GT nor Forza is what you call an arcade racer are they? You're babbling again. And it's Mr you know who that called Forza "The definitive racing simulator", attacking the emperor etc.

You've just gone off on one hell of a massive tangent for some reason because of a simple statement I made, and that's that I don't think that this type of game suits the XB360 demographic. There is nothing wrong with that, but it's never going to sell 15m+ or so copies as a COD or a GTA will. The very lack of interest in the thread shows something along these lines whether you want to accept it or not. USA and Japan players lost interest in the genre full stop, and the Europeans (and you'll find more Europeans here than any other type of poster) not giving a shit.

I don't see why you have to come out with this fanboy bullshit every time I state the bloody obvious. You did it in the "not looking good for the Wii is it?" thread - well, the Wii is dead. You need to get a grip of yourself, really.
 
Forza 2 and 3 were amazing, best racing games out EVER, IMO. Gameplay was just wow, how it handled and is to keep on the track. Don't get why people are droning on about Gran Turismo, its boring, all that wait and was nice to look at but awful to play. Been a fan of that since the very first one on Playstation and the first rumble controller but GT5 is a big shocker.

Anyway, this is a Forza thread......

Bring it on I say. Love the online racing, the career mode, the online auctions and trading of custom car designs or car files etc. For me Forza took what that other series did years ago and took it to a whole new level, adding lots more fun stuff to the shiny, realistic racer thing. :D

Whats dissappointing is that I only got Forza 2 for my Xbox off Ebay when it was like an 8 quid game, still played it loads but never realised how special it was, blew all the GT's I played away and I loved them, so just had to get FM3 early on. Will definitely take at look at FM4, should be an amazing game.
 
Forza games haven't ever been anywhere near the best racing games ever. Great games but don't talk silly.
 
WeasteDevil said:
I have played Forza, read it right, I said that I've never played Forza 2.

Neither GT nor Forza is what you call an arcade racer are they? You're babbling again. And it's Mr you know who that called Forza "The definitive racing simulator", attacking the emperor etc.

You've just gone off on one hell of a massive tangent for some reason because of a simple statement I made, and that's that I don't think that this type of game suits the XB360 demographic. There is nothing wrong with that, but it's never going to sell 15m+ or so copies as a COD or a GTA will. The very lack of interest in the thread shows something along these lines whether you want to accept it or not. USA and Japan players lost interest in the genre full stop, and the Europeans (and you'll find more Europeans here than any other type of poster) not giving a shit.

I don't see why you have to come out with this fanboy bullshit every time I state the bloody obvious. You did it in the "not looking good for the Wii is it?" thread - well, the Wii is dead. You need to get a grip of yourself, really.
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Nice rant. You still haven't addressed my points though. Or answered my question.

Oh and playing a game a few times isn't the same as knowing why it is better or worse than anything else, especially a game like this.
 
Redlambs said:
They may appear that way to someone only exposed to fully arcade racers. Just like I have friends who hate it for being too sim! :lol:

Have you tried 4 yet btw? I will later today, I hope I'm wrong about it.
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People can quite rightly say Forza 2/3 are some the best racing games ever made. Not the highest 'sim' available but that is not the same thing.

Critics laud the series and rightly so.

Some of the pompus attitudes in this thread are astounding.

I have all the games lined up for next week (Iracing, Netpro, race, GT5, Forza 4) using the same wheel across all games will give a true indication of where they all lie to me but that is still only my opinion, not a universal truth.
 
For some it's nothing to do with the game, it's about the name on the front of the plastic box that plays it. As ridiculous as that sounds.

Oh and demographics, apparently.


Have fun with the comparison though! I look forward to hearing your opinion! It'll be freshing to read that of someone who actually has an interest in playing these games with an open mind :)
 
Interest in it and its sales numbers have to relate to the demographic of the platform it's aimed at and that's down to the type of people that own that platform. It's not rocket science Lambs. Look what eventually happened to PGR and then finally the total demise of the studio itself. Give tham a Codies game or a Need for Speed (no matter how bad it is) and they'll lap it up. Of course you'll get people across the board that will like all types of games, but then you'll get others that don't. All I said was that I don't think that your general singular XB360, Wii, or PS3 owner have the same tastes in particular genres. Instead of accepting that or arguing against it sensibly however, you go off on some mad babbling exercise. I didn't even make a comment about the product, I simply made a comment against what Marchi said regarding sales. You then ballooned it up in your mad boredom.
 
Nope, try again.

There are obviously the sales to make the game, so they make it. I fail to see what that's got to do with the thread, but that's you all over. Had it been a game on the Ps3 you wouldn't be trying to make this leap which started of based on redcafe. A football forum.

Gt5 has little to no competition and has been six years in the making. Plus if you look at forums for it, newcomers did get bored with it pretty quickly too, so it seems the demographic might not be there either? Who knows, but since we are making leaps I might as well put it out there.


But lets face it, as I said, you are once again trying to be negative about a non ps3 title. It's getting tedious again, so yeah I'll call you on it - especially on a game I have interest in and one you won't even play.
 
Nah, you underestimate how big the Forza community is Weaste.

Like I said it brings in a demographic of car nut enthusiasts and also a demographic of people less interested in the nuances of motor vehicles but who clearly have a talent for producing outstanding art and love sharing them with the people from group 1.

Does Forza not sell as well as NFS then?
 
A quick google revealed this: Forza Motorsport 3 Sales (Xbox360) at gamrReview

Pretty interesting reading I'd say. Forza outselling all other driving games on the system by quite some way, combined (in the time it took GT5 to come out) pretty much the same sort of level as GT5.

Mario Kart obliterating all competition too, though it's surprising the fainal sales of the N64 version were so high on a system largely considered to be a slow seller.
 
Redlambs said:
They may appear that way to someone only exposed to fully arcade racers. Just like I have friends who hate it for being too sim! :lol:

Have you tried 4 yet btw? I will later today, I hope I'm wrong about it.
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I haven't but believe it or not my dad is a 360 owner and he's getting it so I will have a look. I have always liked the online market for cars and liveries though, interested to see whats new with all that this time around.
 
Redlambs said:
What's also interesting is the sales for games like NFS across both systems are more or less the same.

Demographics.
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Firstly, you are using VGChartz?

So you're comparing 1 month of GT5 sales to lifetime sales of Forza 3 (where it still gets its arse whipped by almost 2 million)? And then you stick Mario Kart into the equation? (Look at the bottom list and tell me what you see?) You really need to drop it because you're very very wrong, Prologue sold more than either Forza 2 or 3 according to that.
 
Don't be silly Weaste, you know I'm not actually comparing just a quick google showed up things that even surprised me. I think you are the one who needs to drop it because you've now made 29 posts in here and not a single one is about the game itself.

This thread is becoming less about the game and more like some intervention for your problem.


Anyway back to what we should be discussing, I've downloaded the game however for some reason the machine has deciding to stop recognising the force feedback from the wheel. God knows what is going on and I'm not liking the thought of playing it without it! So I'll fix it somehow and review :)
 
Redlambs said:
Don't be silly Weaste, you know I'm not actually comparing just a quick google showed up things that even surprised me.
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Come on, you come over as all grumpy and tense recently, lighten up.

2my9pwy.jpg


:)
 
No feedback for whatever reason yet, but just had a couple of quick goes in the M5.

First off, the FOV has been adjusted and it's much better, especially in the in-car view (which is greatly improved too). You don't get that claustrophobic feeling anymore and can see what you are doing better. The sense of speed is obviously improved too as a result.

Secondly the graphics are sharp and the lighting a lot better.

Last:

marchi-91 said:
Apparently it's still virtually impossible to kick the arse end of a car out.
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marchi-91 said:
Well that was coming from a guy with a wheel. He said pretty much everything you've said positively, except for that.
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You should tell him he has it set up wrong, is not in a rear wheel drive car or just doesn't know what's what. The M5 is all over the place (as like it should be) if you aren't careful and even though it's hard for me to tell without FFB, it certainly doesn't feel a million miles away from 2. Of course that could be the cold track, or the fact I was deliberately trying, but the fact remains the back comes out at will.

One thing it might be that I discovered, is that via the wheel the setting do have a tendency to flip easily, I noticed this because I did it with ABS (set it to off, but it must have flicked back), so maybe traction control was on or steering not to sim?

Oh and I've already discovered an issue, when you crash a car off and rewind, the car you hit bizarrely still goes off.


I'll post a proper review when I get the ffb working and get to play for more than 5 mins (bloody kids :lol:)
 
DFreshKing said:
People can quite rightly say Forza 2/3 are some the best racing games ever made. Not the highest 'sim' available but that is not the same thing.

Critics laud the series and rightly so.

Some of the pompus attitudes in this thread are astounding.

I have all the games lined up for next week (Iracing, Netpro, race, GT5, Forza 4) using the same wheel across all games will give a true indication of where they all lie to me but that is still only my opinion, not a universal truth.
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You'll probably find it will be pretty much in the same order you've listed. GT also has a physics update coming out next week aswell.

iRacing is miles ahead of everybody else. It's the hardcore of the hardcore. NetKar and LFS is somewhere between iracing and GT.

Live For Speed still has one of the best road to tyre feels though. When you're booking it in that game and the tyre temps are at their optimum, it feels incredible. There's seldom racing games that give you that feeling of what's called 'hooked up'* in racing, but it is one of them. iRacing has started to implement it with the new tyre model but I think it will take a little bit more time.

GT5 is the best balance. Hard enough to test sim drivers but easy enough to appeal to the average gamer. It's alot more forgiving then the true sims, but gives accurate representation to most cars.

Forza and GT are pretty much level to me and it will probably stay that way for a long time. They're both pushing the envelope of what they can do without becoming a proper simulator as they risk scaring of potential consumers. My only hope is that PD work on their racing tyre model.
 
Two gripes with the demo so far.

You can't change any settings for the cars and it's a cold swiss track. Neither are good ideas if you want to see how much (if any) the physics have improved.

Although it is easy to tell it's already much, much better than 3.
 
Redlambs said:
Add to that they are only two lap races, so you can't warm the tyres properly, though the face off mode driving through the traffic could be longer.
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Try the rival challenge. It takes your best Friends list lap and uploads there ghost, then you can do lap after lap trying to beat it although I don't know if the tires warm up over the course.

To Marchi, I have played all the games I mentioned but I not with a wheel that gives all formats a level playing field. Don't see much difference between Iracing and netkar currently but need to give them much more time.

I have heard that stock car game is the best 'sim' on the pc at the moment, ahead of iracing and I have a 30 min demo but i will use it once the wheel arrives.

I have had my confirmation email today so I am just awaiting a tracking number so hopefully tues/weds next week.
 
I couldn't give a feck about that, i want to know why the force feedback in my proper wheel is no longer working!

I'm convinced it's not the wheel, I'm thinking the last dashboard update has messed something up. It's working exactly like it does when you connect it to the pc (i.e shit drivers mean no force feedback, only crappy rumble trying to simulate it).
 
Redlambs said:
I couldn't give a feck about that, i want to know why the force feedback in my proper wheel is no longer working!

I'm convinced it's not the wheel, I'm thinking the last dashboard update has messed something up. It's working exactly like it does when you connect it to the pc (i.e shit drivers mean no force feedback, only crappy rumble trying to simulate it).
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Have you tried re syncing?

Or another game?

It's not the demo because it works on mine.
 
DFreshKing said:
Have you tried re syncing?

Or another game?

It's not the demo because it works on mine.
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I've tried re synching, all games, moving the wheel and machine to various locations (in the very unlikely case of interference, besides nothing has changed).

It's strange, the wheel goes hard when the adaptor is plugged in so it's working, the only thing I have noticed is it's taking slightly longer than normal for the console to catch it. I.e it's turning the machine on and the 1player segment comes up on the wheel, but on the console the segments spin for a bit. I can't remember it doing that before, but it might have done.
 
Getting outstanding reviews.

9.5 from IGN calling it "This generation's premier driving simulator" (I would assume console racer) sounds more impressive by the day.

Cannot wait to get my hands on this now.
 
Redlambs said:
I've tried re synching, all games, moving the wheel and machine to various locations (in the very unlikely case of interference, besides nothing has changed).

It's strange, the wheel goes hard when the adaptor is plugged in so it's working, the only thing I have noticed is it's taking slightly longer than normal for the console to catch it. I.e it's turning the machine on and the 1player segment comes up on the wheel, but on the console the segments spin for a bit. I can't remember it doing that before, but it might have done.
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Which wheel are you using? If it's a Fanatec wheel you might need to upgrade the firmware on the wheel, I had to do this when GT5 came out because you couldn't drive in a straight line with the older firmware on the wheel.
 
Looks better than GT5 and Forza 3. I actually didn't think much of Forza 3 from a graphics perspective. But it should be better considering the other 2 were released over a year ago.
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
Looks better than GT5 and Forza 3. I actually didn't think much of Forza 3 from a graphics perspective. But it should be better considering the other 2 were released over a year ago.
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I agree, I did not expect Forza 4 to jump to the top of the graphics tree after seeing how 3 looked compared to GT5.
 
DFreshKing said:
They look more realistic than any other in game roads to me.

You seriously saying that GT5 looked better?
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Yep. It doesn't look constantly greasy and over exposed to lighting like Forza 4. Watch any motor race and show me where a track texture looks anything like that.. Why do you think Polyphony changed nearly all of their tracks?

Forza still has a long way to go to catch up with GT lighting and graphic wise. I don't need a crap quality side by side youtube video to see that, I can do it with my own eyes.
 
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