Forza Motorsport 4

mariachi-19

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I may be the devil, but i'm not a monster
Know there are a few fans of this series on here 'namely Redlambs :p'

Couple of cool things like Autovista coming into Forza and actually utilizing the TopGear name unlike GT5 that slapped a couple of events together on the Top Gear track.

In saying that, I still don't find the graphics on this game attractive. It looks far too much like an updates Need For Speed shift.

 
No, I'm a fan of 2 (still the closest game to getting the actual feel of my car). I hated 3 and fear this might go down the same 'accessable' route.

Demo is out next week though right? I don't bother with Live gold, so I think it's a few days later for silver members. The top gear stuff might be good.
 
Redlambs said:
No, I'm a fan of 2 (still the closest game to getting the actual feel of my car). I hated 3 and fear this might go down the same 'accessable' route.

Demo is out next week though right? I don't bother with Live gold, so I think it's a few days later for silver members. The top gear stuff might be good.
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I think they're paying the price for 1 game every 2 years. They're neglecting the nuts and bolts of the game for content and it will hurt them in the long run. Much like COD
 
marchi-91 said:
I think they're paying the price for 1 game every 2 years. They're neglecting the nuts and bolts of the game for content and it will hurt them in the long run. Much like COD
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I disagree to an extent, after all there's nothing wrong with the physics underneath, so there's no real need to take more than a couple of years to do an update. 3 suffered from them trying to make it far too accessable to the average gamer and it felt too on the rails. GT5 did get the mix a bit better, this could go further but somehow I don't think it will.
 
Redlambs said:
I disagree to an extent, after all there's nothing wrong with the physics underneath, so there's no real need to take more than a couple of years to do an update. 3 suffered from them trying to make it far too accessable to the average gamer and it felt too on the rails. GT5 did get the mix a bit better, this could go further but somehow I don't think it will.
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GT5 underneath feels very similar to NetKar which to me shows that they still have room to develop where as Forza 2 was really the pinnacle of the physics engine. I doubt it will progress that much if at all. I think 3 years would be a more suitable development time, but that's just me. What the game does do; however, is point out just how incredible GT's graphic designers are. With a team 1/3 the size of Turn 10 'including out sourced developers' they were able to produce 200 insanely modelled cars in five years to Forza 25 for Autovista in 2.

They 'T10' are not foolish however, they know they're targeting. They're aiming for a slice of the NFS pie and GT pie.

Looking at the videos though, I see alot more shift 2 then Gran Turismo
 
marchi-91 said:
GT5 underneath feels very similar to NetKar which to me shows that they still have room to develop where as Forza 2 was really the pinnacle of the physics engine. I doubt it will progress that much if at all. I think 3 years would be a more suitable development time, but that's just me. What the game does do; however, is point out just how incredible GT's graphic designers are. With a team 1/3 the size of Turn 10 'including out sourced developers' they were able to produce 200 insanely modelled cars in five years to Forza 25 for Autovista in 2.

They 'T10' are not foolish however, they know they're targeting. They're aiming for a slice of the NFS pie and GT pie.

Looking at the videos though, I see alot more shift 2 then Gran Turismo
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They were talking the other day in a thread on GAF regarding the accurcy of the models in Forza.

A Zonda R in real life
zonda-pagani-r.jpg


In GT5
5373627019_777fa61e8f_z.jpg


In Forza 4
getphoto.ashx488bu2o.jpg


The implication being that Turn 10 have simply modelled the front wheels and whacked them on the back. Maybe there are simply different configs of the car though in real life, I don't know.
 
marchi-91 said:
GT5 underneath feels very similar to NetKar which to me shows that they still have room to develop where as Forza 2 was really the pinnacle of the physics engine. I doubt it will progress that much if at all. I think 3 years would be a more suitable development time, but that's just me. What the game does do; however, is point out just how incredible GT's graphic designers are. With a team 1/3 the size of Turn 10 'including out sourced developers' they were able to produce 200 insanely modelled cars in five years to Forza 25 for Autovista in 2.

They 'T10' are not foolish however, they know they're targeting. They're aiming for a slice of the NFS pie and GT pie.

Looking at the videos though, I see alot more shift 2 then Gran Turismo
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3 years is throwing a random time at it, don't you think? Unless you have a full breakdown of what each individual should be doing and when, it's going round the house trying to guess. For the record, I've always believed in smaller teams do things in less time on the programming side, obviously reversed on the art side. However we are talking about touching up a game, not building one. GT had unlimited budget, six years and a huge art modeller team whose directive was to focus on the cars above all else.

But this isn't really about that. As for the physics engine, what makes you think it can't be imrpoved? As Weaste has pointed out the fundamentals and equations are there for all to see, it's how they are used that's important. Forza 2 had a tyre engine that it'd be difficult to improve yes, but in 3 they sorted the centre of gravity issue and going forward I think gthere's still room to manouvre on the weight balancing side of things (in 3 you just didn't seem to get the weight transfer and snap that you do when you reach the limit in real life). Besides as always, it's not just the engine itself it's what they do with it to make the game playable. To me, once you set a car up properly, forza 2 felt the closest of the console racers despite being the most faked (due to the cars not rolling over). It's about how you make the game feel to strike the right balance, and in that regards you aren't going to please everyone and unfortunately most won't beable to feel improvements if they are made.

I doubt people like me and you are going to like 4 that much to be honest. Then again, I wasn't that impressed with GT5 either.
 
Redlambs said:
3 years is throwing a random time at it, don't you think? Unless you have a full breakdown of what each individual should be doing and when, it's going round the house trying to guess. For the record, I've always believed in smaller teams do things in less time on the programming side, obviously reversed on the art side. However we are talking about touching up a game, not building one. GT had unlimited budget, six years and a huge art modeller team whose directive was to focus on the cars above all else.

But this isn't really about that. As for the physics engine, what makes you think it can't be imrpoved? As Weaste has pointed out the fundamentals and equations are there for all to see, it's how they are used that's important. Forza 2 had a tyre engine that it'd be difficult to improve yes, but in 3 they sorted the centre of gravity issue and going forward I think gthere's still room to manouvre on the weight balancing side of things (in 3 you just didn't seem to get the weight transfer and snap that you do when you reach the limit in real life). Besides as always, it's not just the engine itself it's what they do with it to make the game playable. To me, once you set a car up properly, forza 2 felt the closest of the console racers despite being the most faked (due to the cars not rolling over). It's about how you make the game feel to strike the right balance, and in that regards you aren't going to please everyone and unfortunately most won't beable to feel improvements if they are made.

I doubt people like me and you are going to like 4 that much to be honest. Then again, I wasn't that impressed with GT5 either.
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Physics wise, I found GT5 to be quite remarkable but it was a let down in certain other aspects. It's easy to blame the limitations of the ps3 'and I think PD should take a hit as well', but they tried to do too much too soon. I think Time change was fine, but weather could possibly have been left out along with 3d integration and track builder. The car prize list is somewhat baffling and while GT has had grind, GT5 took it to a whole new level. They tried to reduce it through the online events, but it needs to be reworked for GT6. They should have also completely scrapped standard cars and have just gone in with what they had in premiums. It did more harm then good for most consumers and sales numbers.

It will interesting to see what Spec 2.0 bring. My guess is that certain aspects of the game will be reworked, graphical update, online system update, physics update, tuning update and maybe a few cars and tracks, but I imagine most will come out as DLC
 
It depends what you mean by 'improvements'. The Gt5 engine, like forza's, is fine and can be used for more realistic driving should they choose too, but it wouldn't sell so they strike a balance. GT5 is much better than 3, but irnoically enough I think the flaws in forza 2's engine actually help it because with 3 and GT although you can change certain aspects to change the car, the overall drive is very much what the designers wanted with the balance. In Forza 2 the changes you make were more stark resulting in you being able to set the car up to something more closely approximating real life driving - however it's not something that enough gamers want to do.

Forza 4 will probably drive exactly like GT5, which isn't a bad thing at all, but it's nothing new. Then it comes down to presentation and how much interest it holds, both things can be greatly improved over GT but whether they are or not remains to be seen.
 
marchi-91 said:
It did more harm then good for most consumers and sales numbers.
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I doubt that it did any damage to sales, they were 6.3m as of December (Polyphony Digital Inc. - Software Title List -) Japan and NA sales probably being lower than forecast. Probably at least 8m by now, and with a release of the platinum edition and Spec II it will eventually pass 10m without a doubt. Then add in the 5m from Prologue, PD is laughing all the way to the bank.
 
Yeah and people got a demo and an unfinished game. Great precedent ;)

Anyway, back to Forza 4. I hope they've gone back to the Forza 2 way of selecting races, I hated the career mode in 3. You just couldn't see what you were up against, what's the point in that?

I also hope you can put your foot down in 4th gear in the M3 and still have the back step out wildly in a straight line like in real life, because in 3 it was like the traction control never really came off and the bloody car never had it anyway!
 
From a sales perspective, this generation PD will if you include Prologue and the PSP game along with GT5 ended up shipping around 20m games. It will be quite a bit more than Turn 10 will have done, however Turn 10 probably have the handicap of the XB360 being dominant only in NA, and I think for that region the non-arcade racing game is dead. I don't think that it fits into the Xbox demographic.
 
It's amazing how few people are interested in this (look at the size of the GT5 thread). I just think that the XBox demographic have zero interest in racing games, it's all spin on a sixpence pop shooters for them.
 
I'm pretty sure it's just because there's more Playstation people here. PS3 threads are usually bigger than the other consoles' generally. Then if you look at threads specifically for games, PS3 exclusives seem to always get more replies than threads about games on other consoles.

Anyway, IMO Playstation games always seem to get more hyped up in general.
 
Yeah but surely you can still see that there's more Playstation fans here than anything?

The DS is the best selling console ever in the UK, but there's still hardly ever any discussions on DS games or anything here.

EDIT:
WeasteDevil said:
Although you might be right, the GT5 thread in both views and replies twats all of the COD games.
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:angel:
 
With the DS thing, has it passed PS2 yet in terms of worldwide numbers? Most people wouldn't talk about that anyway fannying around with Nintendogs & Cats. Same with the Wii, you just end up looking like a cnut. Same with no thread on Angry Birds, just shallow pointless shit.
 
:lol: There's plenty of non Nintendogs type games on the DS if those aren't your thing :p

It passed the PS2 in the UK and US, but I'm not sure about worldwide.
 
Well yes they are very popular games :)

I think this thread has gone off-topic enough, so I'm going to hang out by myself in the handheld thread I just made and let you lot go back to talking about tyres and all the other car stuff I have no idea about :D
 
Shock horror another game thread polluted with Sony vs everyone bollocks. Surely anyone who likes racing games should be excited about the prospect of a new racing game regardless of the system? Or are people here still twelve and have irrational affection to one faceless company and a lump of plastic and sillicon? ;)

There are many more factors involved with why this thread isn't so big than the one you've put Weaste. The game is being talked about all over the web, just like any other, redcafe is hardly a good indicator :lol:

As for forza, I can't get the demo for a few days because I don't have gold. I'm not expecting it to be great anyway.
 
I find the Forza games boring these days but that's because I'm not into serious racers anymore.

Also, it doesn't matter which tuning setup I purchase for going online, I ALWAYS get left for dead at the start line!
 
Redlambs said:
Shock horror another game thread polluted with Sony vs everyone bollocks. Surely anyone who likes racing games should be excited about the prospect of a new racing game regardless of the system?
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All we have done here is talk about the fact that the sim racing genre probably IMO doesn't fit the XB360 owner demographic. I don't see a massive interest in the thread from people that are interested in the game Lambs.
 
WeasteDevil said:
All we have done here is talk about the fact that the sim racing genre probably IMO doesn't fit the XB360 owner demographic. I don't see a massive interest in the thread from people that are interested in the game Lambs.
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It's a thread about the game. This isn't the first time you've been in a thread solely to point out it doesn't get as many hits as a PS3 one. Like I said, there are many reasons for that.

Do you own a 360?
 
WeasteDevil said:
No, but I am thinking of buying one for this, as I've stated before.
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If that's the case, why haven't you posted picture and thoughts and such to keep this thread going like you did for the GT5 one?

My point being that you and marchi and to a degree myself kept that thread going for over three years. This one has been here for only a few days. We both know what you were getting at by entering here, if you have any genuine interest tell us about it!

For my part I haven't been that active in here because quite simply we've had GT5, F1 2011 and a few other driving games released between Forza 3 and 4 and none of them have really kept me inspired by console driving games (especially after the disappointment that FM3 was). So I'll play it and comment on what I think, not bother with sales talk and comparisons with GT5.
 
I didn't bring sales up, Marchi did by going on about premium and standard models of cars hurting sales. I simply replied that I doubt that's the case, only anal people that insist on using the cockpit view (that other GTs never had in the first place) would even bother with the difference. I only then followed that up with an observation that I don't think that the sim-racer genre necessarily fits with the XB360 owner demographic.

As for excitement, I'm not yet seeing what this does much more than Forza 3 did. Stuff like livery editors are really not things that interest me. As for buying an XB360, I've always said that I would do once I was sure that the technical issues with it were ironed out. And this game is as good a reason as any to get with one. I'm not really a fan of all-out shooters, so Gears 3 does nothing for me, COD doesn't either. I like my gaming a little more refined.
 
Well d'ling demo now so soon see what its all about. Have been playing forza 3 a bit lately so can easily compare.

On another note I have just ordered the CSR for this game, f1 and GT5 plus I am going to try my hand a few pc sims again.

I've always found the Ms wheel to be really good but this wheel apparently shits all over all the logitec ones and unless you gonna spend £500 on a wheel is the best out there.

Will see but the old Porsche wheels always seemed to be well liked.
 
WeasteDevil said:
I didn't bring sales up, Marchi did by going on about premium and standard models of cars hurting sales. I simply replied that I doubt that's the case, only anal people that insist on using the cockpit view (that other GTs never had in the first place) would even bother with the difference. I only then followed that up with an observation that I don't think that the sim-racer genre necessarily fits with the XB360 owner demographic.

As for excitement, I'm not yet seeing what this does much more than Forza 3 did. Stuff like livery editors are really not things that interest me. As for buying an XB360, I've always said that I would do once I was sure that the technical issues with it were ironed out. And this game is as good a reason as any to get with one. I'm not really a fan of all-out shooters, so Gears 3 does nothing for me, COD doesn't either. I like my gaming a little more refined.
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Well I'd stick to Forza 2 if you have a genuine like for driving games, since three went backwards and 4 sounds like it's much the same (though they have apparently improved the cars weight, which is a big plus). I think silver members get the demo friday so I'll know more about how it feels then.
 
If they had such a good sim model in 2, why did they go back? I can understand the need for making it more "casual" friendly, but if that were the case they wouldn't surely feel the need to have a full simulation option? You are suggesting that they took things out in 3. I don't know, I've never played 2.
 
WeasteDevil said:
If they had such a good sim model in 2, why did they go back? I can understand the need for making it more "casual" friendly, but if that were the case they wouldn't surely feel the need to have a full simulation option? You are suggesting that they took things out in 3. I don't know, I've never played2.
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The model needed fixing from 2, the main issue was the cars couldn't roll over so they used a false centre of gravity which made the cars slide around slightly more than they should have. The plus side of this is they slightly exagerated the effects of mods like the diff and as such it actually made the cars feel more realistic when you set them up right.

For three, like GT5, the physics improved however it's the design decisions that make or break the feel. In fm3 it constanly feels like a level of tc is always on and the weight of the cars just doesn't feel right, a heavy V8 lump powered car feels similiar to a nimbler straight 6 even though in real life the difference is quite large. GT5 bettered this, but from what I've played still has that feel to it, although I've not spent time on it with a decent wheel.

Then you have 3's shit presentation, the career mode especially. 2 might not have the wealth of tracks, but the races are better because you can tune your car to suit and play how you want to. In 3 you are blind and by the time you hit the track you can be woefully over or under balanced to the other cars.

As I said before, 4 can improve on both 3 and GT5 in both presentation and feel of the cars, but I doubt it does either to be frank.
 
The way the paint changes upon the slightest impact looks like it's to show crumple zones and the like are working (i.e a debug copy).

If that's how it's left in the game, then that's stupid. Oh and there's nothing wrong with keeping your foot to the pedal when upside down, you never know the car might magically flip over!
 
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