Phobia implies something irriational. There is nothing irrational about having aversion to religion which has in many chapters of history held civilazation back and still does. It's a complete misnomer to add phobia into it. What if I happened to be a gay atheist in Iran. Would I be islamophobic about some religious nutjobs wanting to hang me?
Foreign secretary advice to LGBT fans.... Be respectful
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Phobia implies something irriational. There is nothing irrational about having aversion to religion which has in many chapters of history held civilazation back and still does. It's a complete misnomer to add phobia into it. What if I happened to be a gay atheist in Iran. Would I be islamophobic about some religious nutjobs wanting to hang me?
Islamophobia is assuming people are backwards and lesser because they are Muslim.
Being atheist shouldn't cause you to look down on people because they are religious.
Islamophobia: dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims.
I don't think that's a fair definition, because dislike of Islam, an ideology, should not be considered synonymous with a prejudice against Muslims, the people.
It's fair game to be critical of a thing that a person chooses. People choose to participate in religion, and as such it's fair game to be critical of their choice. I can be critical of their participation in an ideology that oppresses without disliking that person as a human being.
On the flip side, many of these folks are taking an ideology that they chose to participate in freely and using it as a justification to treat people poorly, which is wholly immoral in my opinion.
Religious dogma has no place in the modern world.
They aren't at all like Hollywood celebrities at all. Hollywood voluntarily injects itself into every cultural issue. No one asks, but they feel the need to spread their uninformed opinions on everything. These are just athletes, that want to play in the biggest competition in their sport, the one they have dreamed about since they were kids. They didn't ask for it to be in Qatar, most probably don't agree with it, but they are not obligated to take any political stances when all they want to do is live out their dreams and play in a world cup.
Van Dijk's response was perfect, I might have politcal opinions, but I am here to play the game I love and I won't do anything to jeopardize it. Perfect, nothing else needs to be said.
While I agree that we shouldn't put celebrities' opinions on a pedestal, because they're just people and their opinions aren't inherently worth more than other people's opinions, let alone experts in whatever field, I think some people underestimate the positive impact visibility and representation can have on marginalised or discriminated groups. Especially in traditionally very "masculine" areas like football or hip hop. So many young LGBT people grow up without anyone championing their cause.
Wearing the armband might seem like a small empty gesture but, especially given the backlash, wearing it would show the world that these stars of the game stand against that discrimination. Right now I get the feeling this debate around the world cup is being portrayed as the liberal western media trying to impose their view on the middle east. If prominent football players take a stand that could show it's not just some fringe political point scoring, but that it's ok to support LGBT rights even if you're not LGBT.
Even if it doesn't change anything in tangible terms, it would give some hope and support to young LGBT people everywhere. And who knows, maybe over the long term it could even change a few people's minds on the issue. The majority won't change their minds, but it could make a small difference for some. I'm still hoping some countries do it anyway. Reports from Germany saying their FA is taking FIFA to court over the armband issue, so let's see what comes of it.
Wearing the armband might seem like a small empty gesture but, especially given the backlash, wearing it would show the world that these stars of the game stand against that discrimination. Right now I get the feeling this debate around the world cup is being portrayed as the liberal western media trying to impose their view on the middle east. If prominent football players take a stand that could show it's not just some fringe political point scoring, but that it's ok to support LGBT rights even if you're not LGBT.
Even if it doesn't change anything in tangible terms, it would give some hope and support to young LGBT people everywhere. And who knows, maybe over the long term it could even change a few people's minds on the issue. The majority won't change their minds, but it could make a small difference for some. I'm still hoping some countries do it anyway. Reports from Germany saying their FA is taking FIFA to court over the armband issue, so let's see what comes of it.
Well ideally. You just have states with godless constitution and freedom of religion and freedom from religion. And non of this crap of automatically being born into a religion because your parents were religious.
Correct. Well said.
Well hopefully the same thing happens again because some of the posts on this are as repulsive and disgusting as they are cowardly. And I say that as a CIS male who has no real tangible connection to the issue other than basic human decency.
FIFA / qatar now offended by the word ‘Love’.
The phrase ‘snowflakes’ get thrown around a lot and I often fail to see its meaning, but it’s fitting here, surely?
From BBC news…
The phrase ‘snowflakes’ get thrown around a lot and I often fail to see its meaning, but it’s fitting here, surely?
From BBC news…
Also worth noting we have a decade long thread in the CE criticizing the absurdity of religion in general.
Again, what we're talking about here is not a "political opinion". This is about basic human rights, not about political views. What he says (he hopefully doesn't mean to say it, but that is the message he sends out) is that a yellow card is more important to him than taking a stand against so-called "values" that include denying human beings basic human rights.
The logic some people embrace in these threads is absolutely shocking. If Qatar's "values" included some variation on the segregation/apartheid theme, would people still say that we need to "respect" them and that it's only fair that footballers want to play football and not get involved with "politics"?
Flick seems to have tried to put things into a better light at today's presser.
He said they talked things through and were prepared to take the yellow cards, to rotate captains each game, to compensate. But according to him the problem was that FIFA didn't actually state the precise consequences of wearing the armband (I assume he was alluding to red cards or cancelled games or whatever) and that FIFA waiting until the last second left them too little time to react. So the associations decided not to push players into it, but to protect them from that pressure. He called that decision understandable, but unfortunate.
The topic heated up further today, after REWE, among other things Germany's second largest super market chain, stepped back from their DFB sponsorship and reports that DFB is looking to sue FIFA - though I find it hard to imagine a lawsuit making a difference in this.
He said they talked things through and were prepared to take the yellow cards, to rotate captains each game, to compensate. But according to him the problem was that FIFA didn't actually state the precise consequences of wearing the armband (I assume he was alluding to red cards or cancelled games or whatever) and that FIFA waiting until the last second left them too little time to react. So the associations decided not to push players into it, but to protect them from that pressure. He called that decision understandable, but unfortunate.
The topic heated up further today, after REWE, among other things Germany's second largest super market chain, stepped back from their DFB sponsorship and reports that DFB is looking to sue FIFA - though I find it hard to imagine a lawsuit making a difference in this.
I have to agree with this.
There are not many countries out there that are squeaky clean but that's whataboutism, this particular moment it's about Qatar and their record human rights.
And in 4 years time it'll be the turn to shine the light on the US. But not today.
He's a footballer, do you honestly expect him to solve all the world's problems?
Don't be silly. Do you honestly think anyone thinks anyone can solve all the world's problems?
If you claim to support something but succumb as soon as it might have repercussions for yourself, are you really supporting it in the first place?
This legend wore this in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and UAE.
This legend wore this in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and UAE.
You will have to excuse my ignorance but who the hell is that?
I'm assuming it's a Formula 1 driver? How did they punish him? Points deductions? Grid placement etc?
Fair play.
Lewis Hamilton.You will have to excuse my ignorance but who the hell is that?
I'm assuming it's a Formula 1 driver? How did they punish him? Points deductions? Grid placement etc?
Fair play.
Ah ok, how did the governing body for formula 1 sanction him?
I don't remember if there were any consequences for him, to be honest!
Sorry my mates etc are into it and I've heard of punishments being given out for careless driving etc (I think
) but since the other poster mentioned doing the right thing regardless of the repercussions I assumed he got some sort of sporting sanctions.There are many reasons for opening a thread.
Boredom, curiousity, read what's being said about an issue etc
Good man. Respect for him just went up.
Shame Southgate instead chose to state that he ‘empathised with FIFA’. But then, being a cowardly yes man is a big part of his job I guess.
Wanting to play the ‘innocent’, probing troll role on a topic that you have no intention or desire of actually furthering your understanding of.
Are you preaching or engaging in discussion/debate? Because you don't seem to responding to point I've made.
So all Muslims agree with me? Probably not on many issues. Does that make them right Islamically? No. Am I right? Check the test and the explanation. Qur'an, Sunnah, action of the Sahabah. Simple. Anyone disagree with this them I won't know what they are following. It isn't Islam and there is consensus on this where it matters.
Oppressing 10% of the population. Not even slightly. Islam is for Muslims first and foremost. There are rules eg don't drink alcohol. Some do. They are sinning Islamically. If they don't follow Islam they are free to do what they want. Drink what they want.
Love, humanity etc In Islam you can dislike a concept if Islam has made it a sin. But individual can never oppress or do injustice to an individual. I've said this on numerous occasions. Islam also has criteria. So chopping off the hand is in Islam. Yet what Saudi do is against Islam. Why because of criteria. So if a person is stealing because of hunger they don't get punished, the local governor/MP/councillor would be accountable in the first instance. If they didn't have the funds it goes up the ladder. Put simply the PM in UK would be punishable for food banks and poverty if it lead to crime. Not the guy who stole.
Sex before marriage is a sin in Islam. Pakistan has no right to punish a 20 year old engaged in sex before marriage. Why? Because they have created a society where dowry makes marriage difficult, even parents want kids to get an education and marry when 25, TV and advertising has semi naked women on billboards etc which evokes desire etc. To them punish a single man or woman in their 20's for engaging in sexual acts would be considered wrong.
This is why I don't do simple yes and no answers. It doesn't represent the whole picture. And no even with the complete picture I don't expect all to agree. I have no problem with it I don't see why likes of you do.
I've never beaten up a gay person, called any names, not befriended one based on their sexual orientation, not employed a person because they were gay, hetro or bisexual etc. I am convinced there is a creator, I am convinced there is an afterlife, I am convinced the Qur'an is a divine book, it tells me I will be accountable for my actions, no one else's. It provides a guide for how I should live my life to attain what it promises. I don't compromise that for nobody. If that makes me a bad person in the eyes of my peers etc I can live with that.
If you believe that you can stop anytime you want.
As they say don't feed the troll, innit
What do you class as acceptance? I don't discriminate against an individual based on sexuality, I accept there are gay people in the world. I engage with, work with, socialise with gay people.
Here is the thing and I'll be blunt about it. It doesn't bother me what others may think. I stopped trying to please people a long time ago.
I don't make excuses for being a Muslim. And I certainly wouldn't let FIFA "control" me if I was as passionate about something as likes of Kane and Vertonghen claim to be.
I sold my house at a loss when I found out interest in way of mortgage wasn't allowed. I was literally on my arse when I left the bank job I was in for same reasons. Walked away from a partnership in a business due to alcohol reasons. Never once saw it as a loss. I certainly am not going to let people, many of whom imo are virtue signalling sway me from something i passionately believe in.
Belief in sky fairies is haram.
You are of course free to believe what you want. But as long as there are no proofs that god or a any god given moral exists, I don't see how people can claim the right to have any opinion on how other people live their life. What two adults privacy and voluntarily do in their bedroom, is just none of my fecking buisness. Simple as.
Who are you again? You don't get to demand nothing.
Change that attitude and if I feel like it I may respond. Until then I'll stick to those folk who may disagree but are not making demands
Do you think being gay is immoral?
I didn’t demand anything from you (although, if as you say, I ‘don’t get to demand nothing’, it would suggest that you’re encouraging me to demand something from you…), I asked you a simple yes or no question that should be easy to answer.
Do you think that being gay is immoral?
Yes or no.
I agree with you. I've stated many times what people do in their own space and time is nothing whatsoever to do with me. Or anybody else for that matter.
With regards to God I'm not here to convince anyone else or prove anything to anyone else. Im just saying I believe and the proof is sufficient for me. My journey is mine. Mine alone. I am convinced there is a creator. I am convinced the Qur'an is divine. That authority is what I live my life by. Me.
I have no problem with that. I, on the other hand, am convinced that god does not exist, and that the Quran is not divine. I'm also convinced we can still be friends.
I'm beginning to think the poster may believe that being a homosexual is immoral.
Like if someone was to ask me that question I could easily answer.
Like if someone was to ask me that question I could easily answer.
Whatever your reasoning, it just sounds like you're dodging the question, and when someone dodges a question it's because they know their answer is not a good one.
Do you think that being gay is immoral?
And if he says yes what does it matter to you? As long as he treats people with respect and does no harm to anyone he can believe what he wants. It's none of you business.