calodo2003
Flaming Full Member
Too open ended of questions. Obfuscation tome incoming.OK, do you think homosexuality is immoral?
Do you think a non elected government should discriminate against people based on sexual orientation?
Too open ended of questions. Obfuscation tome incoming.OK, do you think homosexuality is immoral?
Do you think a non elected government should discriminate against people based on sexual orientation?
Not really "When in Rome". There is no tradition of homophobic chants in there. But the irony is there indeed. FIFA forbidding Rainbow armbands and at the same pretending to care about these chants...
Some just don't get it, do they?Oh right you are mate, no tradition of Homophobic chants. Just a tradition of rampant state approved Homophobia.
Hypocrisy/whataboutery arguments have this issue of being stuck in a weird middle.
The 1994 World Cup was held in the U.S. Vietnam participated in the qualifiers. Iraq participated in the qualifiers. Iran participated in the qualifiers. So... was that wrong? Should they have boycotted it, and they are therefore worse than us?
Or is this some kind of exchange, where because they did not boycott USA 1994 (and will not boycott USA 2026), we have to not boycott Qatar?
Well, I did not sign up for this exchange! other countries are more than welcome to boycott USA 2026!
Too open ended of questions. Obfuscation tome incoming.
That's true indeed. You seem to have a hard time separating regimes from people/fans in the Middle East. I don't think people over there (even though homophobia is more widespread than in the West) like to expose their homophobia in public the way many football fans do over here. And I don't believe the homophobic regime of Qatar -with its homophobic laws – approves of homophobic chants.Oh right you are mate, no tradition of Homophobic chants. Just a tradition of rampant state approved Homophobia.
What do you class as acceptance? I don't discriminate against an individual based on sexuality, I accept there are gay people in the world. I engage with, work with, socialise with gay people.
If you think that being gay is sinful or immoral then you don't accept them. You don't view their existence as valid.
That's true indeed. You seem to have a hard time separating regimes from people/fans in the Middle East. I don't think people over there (even though homophobia is more widespread than in the West) like to expose their homophobia in public the way many football fans do over here. And I don't believe the homophobic regime of Qatar -with its homophobic laws – approves of homophobic chants.
These regimes want homosexuality under the rug. They don't want it discussed to begin with...
Plenty of my atheist friends probably secretly wish I wasn't a Muslim (jihad, terrorist, backwards brown fella).
Your friends sound like cnutsPlenty of my atheist friends probably secretly wish I wasn't a Muslim (jihad, terrorist, backwards brown fella). Do they not accept me fully? Do they not view my existence as valid?
I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with your hounding? Each person exists, however they are. They don't need another person to validate their existence.
You seem to want to spin that flippant 'When is Rome' remark into a full blown in depth discussion for some reason mate. Have I offended you in some way?
Ok, is homophobic chanting homophobic?
Your friends sound like cnuts
Plenty of my atheist friends probably secretly wish I wasn't a Muslim (jihad, terrorist, backwards brown fella). Do they not accept me fully? Do they not view my existence as valid?
I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with your hounding? Each person exists, however they are. They don't need another person to validate their existence.
Are you really that secure in your faith if you can't answer a straightforward question about it?
But hey, at least I've learned something from this. Choosing Love over Hate is an evil Western concept. I did not know that!
Plenty of my atheist friends probably secretly wish I wasn't a Muslim (jihad, terrorist, backwards brown fella). Do they not accept me fully? Do they not view my existence as valid?
I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with your hounding? Each person exists, however they are. They don't need another person to validate their existence.
Yes it is homophobic.
And it is also much more common in European football than it is in the Middle Eastern stadiums…. Where it’s almost inexistant.
Not saying football fans over there are flawless. Just that it’s not reasonable to blame them for homophobic chants.
I think there's a difference between not needing people to validate your existence, and not wanting people to invalidate your existence.Each person exists, however they are. They don't need another person to validate their existence.
This guy?Has there ever been a man more ironically named than Cleverly
Right, so Vietnam, which was famously heavily protested in the US and all over the word at the time?
If you were there would you have been calling a halt on the protest because of historical wars in Asia?
On the bolded bit. that's utter hypoicrisy, you are the one making comparisons with other atrocious behaviour instead of just dealing with the oppression at hand. On purpose or not you are on the side of the oppressor in this conversation, if not in reality. This is a thread about LGBT issues so that might explain people's insistence on focusing there.
In case you haven't noticed there is actually no boycott by anyone of Qatar, so you are in reality raging against a hypothetical or some idiots online.
Who is this imaginary person who was for Vietnam but is now upset in solidarity with the LGBT community?
I literally have a picture of Ho Chi Minh and the actual hammer and sickle from a Canadian branch of the communist party in my kitchen. Vietnam was only part of a systematic attack on the poor for geopolitical control under the guise of the war on communism. It doesn't stop me caring about the actual oppresion happening now.
Do you think sexual freedom should be a human right?
Just no.Right, so Vietnam, which was famously heavily protested in the US and all over the word at the time?
If you were there would you have been calling a halt on the protest because of historical wars in Asia?
On the bolded bit. that's utter hypoicrisy, you are the one making comparisons with other atrocious behaviour instead of just dealing with the oppression at hand. On purpose or not you are on the side of the oppressor in this conversation, if not in reality. This is a thread about LGBT issues so that might explain people's insistence on focusing there.
In case you haven't noticed there is actually no boycott by anyone of Qatar, so you are in reality raging against a hypothetical or some idiots online.
Who is this imaginary person who was for Vietnam but is now upset in solidarity with the LGBT community?
I literally have a picture of Ho Chi Minh and the actual hammer and sickle from a Canadian branch of the communist party in my kitchen. Vietnam was only part of a systematic attack on the poor for geopolitical control under the guise of the war on communism. It doesn't stop me caring about the actual oppresion happening now.
Do you think sexual freedom should be a human right?
I think we found that out several dozen pages ago.Maybe it would show people engaging with him are wasting their time.
Yes it is homophobic. And it is also much more common in European football than it is in the Middle Eastern stadiums…. Where it’s almost inexistant.
Not saying football fans over there are flawless. Just that it’s not reasonable to blame them for homophobic chants.
It's the utter hypocrisy of people. Yes freedom of religion and freedom of sexual orientation is a human right.
So is the freedom not to be bombed and massacred. Especially an illegal foreign invasion and occupation. So much so they protested that they elected the same government and president twice.
Or is it alright to bomb and kill non white people.
Qatar should be boycotted not only in the WC but in everything when they are violating human rights. So should everyone else.
Just no.
No war is moral and im not defending the Vietnam one but to make it out as this evil world dominating dr claw esq action is ridiculous.
I have no no idea where you live but in my sphere the people angry with Qatar are the same people angry with racism here and imperial invasions around the world.
Yeah this isn't the right place to do so.OK, I disagree but let's not derail the thread. I'd be happy to discuss it elsewhere.
Weird argument - all of these things were heavily protested against as should Qatar’s laws.It's the utter hypocrisy of people. Yes freedom of religion and freedom of sexual orientation is a human right.
So is the freedom not to be bombed and massacred. Especially an illegal foreign invasion and occupation. So much so they protested that they elected the same government and president twice.
Or is it alright to bomb and kill non white people.
Qatar should be boycotted not only in the WC but in everything when they are violating human rights. So should everyone else.
Ok good, is Qatar a country with laws against and a long tradition of discrimination towards gay people?
Homophobia can take many forms mate. Some of the Ecuador fans were obviously just putting their own spin on it. But just because it takes a different form doesn't mean it wasn't because those people felt like they were in a comfortable environment to engage in their homophobia.
Just that it’s not reasonable to blame them for homophobic chants.
1) I believe the answer to be Yes Qatar does have such laws and a very likely the long tradition of discrimination that goes along with it.
2) No, I don’t think so. I believe we are underestimating the magnitude of homophobia in some segments of Western society, specially in football... The Qatari regime being what it is and acting in this way (banning rainbow flags..) probably gives the bigots around the world some validation for their homophobic views, but it is from far being the main issue.
Fifa are cn’ts but UEFA wasn't that brave either last summer.
I dont know if people are blaming Qatar for the homophobic chants as much as saying that its kind of a safespace for homophobes (in the fandoms of all national sides) to express themselves more openly with less fear of some sort of repercussion.
All these arguments fall apart if you simply go to the General Forum or Current Events section of Redcafe.Weird argument - all of these things were heavily protested against as should Qatar’s laws.