Foreign secretary advice to LGBT fans.... Be respectful

[Rood]

I know this happens around the world, but you must understand that there are huge cultural-relegious differences between Qatar and the named states above. People in the gulf countries are more religious and the chances of that happening in Qatar is very very thin. If that happened in another middle eastern country other than the gulf countries, I would believe it more.

Have to say that I agree that it's very niave to think this kind of thing doesn't happen in the Gulf countries

I have no idea if that particular story is true but, having spent time in the region, I know the Gulf countries are full of hypocrisy and contradiction

 

[NotThatSoph]

No because it's not even remotely similar

What are the big differences? Genuine question, I don't see it. They are all examples of people doing things many people think they should be able to do, and then having to flee their country because their governments would punish them for it otherwise.

 

[Boavista]

I know this happens around the world, but you must understand that there are huge cultural-relegious differences between Qatar and the named states above. People in the gulf countries are more religious and the chances of that happening in Qatar is very very thin. If that happened in another middle eastern country other than the gulf countries, I would believe it more.

Honestly there are many reports of rape/ gang rape in general, granted not all of them of LGBT individuals, but also numerous examples of those if you just google around. Obviously not all exactly analogous to the recent reports from Qatar, but the theme is similar enough.

Also I'm not convinced you can just dismiss the examples I gave earlier from other countries, because at the end of the day Azerbaijan and Chechnya might have different cultures and may arguably be religious to different degrees, but that cognitive dissonance why homophobic/punitive rape shouldn't be compatible with their homophobia should still be reasonably comparable. Whatever motivation or justification equally doesn't make sense in the context of their religious beliefs, and I don't see why that makes it so unlikely the same couldn't happen in Qatar. The example from Brazil might seem far fetched given how different the countries are, but I just wanted to highlight this mental disconnect between committing a homophobic hate crime while engaging in a homosexual act. I think that level of mental gymnastics is possible anywhere as a result of extreme homophobia.

But anyway here an example from Dubai:
In 2017 a UK court in Scotland held that Haigh had been tortured and raped by the police in Dubai, (Openly gay former managing director of Leeds United, David Haigh, who was incarcerated in Dubai)

There are also plenty of reports from Iraq and Syria. They're less stable countries and those reports cover a wider angle of injustices, but you decide if that matters in the context of cultural-religious comparison. Afghanistan may be even more extreme and different to the Gulf, but since the point is examples of men raping gay men without internal religious / sexual identity conflicts, then this report exemplifies that too:

He passed through the first checkpoint without trouble, but at the second, Ramiz said, one of the armed men shouted after him using a derogatory term for gay people, “You are an izak![17] One man hit Ramiz in the throat to silence him, and then punched him in the stomach and kicked him in the back. They loaded him into a car and took him to another location where four men whipped and then gang raped him over the course of eight hours.

When they released him, the men said they would come for him again. “From now on anytime we want to be able to find you, we will. And we will do whatever we want with you,” Ramiz recalled the men telling him.

This relates to a transgender woman, but it also applies:

As Maha al-Mutairi, a 39-year-old Kuwaiti transgender woman, made her way to a police station last Friday night, she decided to post a video. Maha had been summoned by authorities for “imitating women” – the fourth time she has faced this charge this year. In the video she posted, she said the police had raped her and beat her senseless while she was detained in a male prison for seven months in 2019, for “imitating the opposite sex.”

Anyway, I still see no reason not to believe the reports coming out of Qatar. If police men in Dubai can rape a fairly public figure such as an English football club official, then it's hardly that difficult to believe that report of a migrant worker from the Philippines getting lured to a hotel by Qatari police.

 

[Rood]

What are the big differences? Genuine question, I don't see it. They are all examples of people doing things many people think they should be able to do, and then having to flee their country because their governments would punish them for it otherwise.

Too much focus on fleeing the country which is not particularly relevant in this case - have a read of the details of the Dr's history, he's actually been living outside of Qatar for a decade

https://www.skysports.com/football/...aign-highlighting-persecution-of-lgbtq-people

 

[hasanejaz88]

The reason why I've said Islamophobia is linked to criticism of Qatar is because we just had a world cup in a country that had its own homophobic culture, plus had much much worse human rights violations and yet the condemnation wasn't nearly as severe as what we're seeing for Qatar.

While their human rights record isn't great, and they discriminate against LGBT, people are also uncomfortable about a Muslim majority country hosting a largely European, Christian, sport.

If Russia saw the same level of condemnation despite being a far worse country from a world perspective I would be fine with what is being said about Qatar. But that simply isn't the fact no matter the one or two examples of people protesting or talking against the world cup then.

I have no issue with people calling out Qatar on these issues but it does annoy me how most, if not all, of these same people were silent when the world cup was happening in Russia.

 

[whitbyviking]

Homosexuality is common in many muslim countries, especially during younger men. They experiment with each other because there is no sex before marriage with any women. It's one of the ironies about their ban on homosexuality.

 

[Rood]

The reason why I've said Islamophobia is linked to criticism of Qatar is because we just had a world cup in a country that had its own homophobic culture, plus had much much worse human rights violations and yet the condemnation wasn't nearly as severe as what we're seeing for Qatar.

While their human rights record isn't great, and they discriminate against LGBT, people are also uncomfortable about a Muslim majority country hosting a largely European, Christian, sport.

If Russia saw the same level of condemnation despite being a far worse country from a world perspective I would be fine with what is being said about Qatar. But that simply isn't the fact no matter the one or two examples of people protesting or talking against the world cup then.

I have no issue with people calling out Qatar on these issues but it does annoy me how most, if not all, of these same people were silent when the world cup was happening in Russia.

There was a fair bit of controversy about Russia 2018 - a lot of focus on racism and Russian hooligan problems then a bit on gay rights and annexation of Crimea:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...abuses-war-crimes-world-cup-russia-fifa-putin

I can't really remember if there was more or less outcry compared to Qatar - maybe a look at old threads on here might answer that

I do think there are some tinges of islamophobia in this thread, large part of it is just ignorance from people who have no experience of this part of the world rather than willful though

 

[moses]

There was a fair bit of controversy about Russia 2018 - a lot of focus on racism and Russian hooligan problems then a bit on gay rights and annexation of Crimea:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...abuses-war-crimes-world-cup-russia-fifa-putin

I can't really remember if there was more or less outcry compared to Qatar - maybe a look at old threads on here might answer that

I do think there are some tinges of islamophobia in this thread, large part of it is just ignorance from people who have no experience of this part of the world rather than willful though

There was a lot of discussion over Russia's attitude at the time of the world cup and beyond. The lack of 'debate' was because there was nothing to debate, nobody tried to paint it as anti Russian propaganda because they were actually horrific to the LGBT community.

If there is any hypocrisy its from people who let criticism of Russia slide but are trying to turn the exact same criticism from a lot of the same people into some sort of persecution.

Also yep, it's the caf some of the people posting with no clue is part of the format, but I think calls of racism and Islamophobia is really dangerous, and if there is any it should be highlighted by report or private message. Vague shouts of discrimination just shut down comments.

 

[LouieVanGallsRedArmeh]

What does it mean?

A bit offtopic but what irks me more, the update which comes out for FIFA 23 on 9th november which will include a DLC(back in the day they used to releas a fully fledged standalone World Cup game) for the Quatar WC 22 is that it won't have all the 8 official stadiums in the game, only 2. I mean that's a disgrace. They may aswell not release this, what is even the point of it won't be an authetntic experience, especially when there will be a game mode that will include a live match replay of the games during that day. It also says on their official website that " in an authentic recreation of the full tournament.
"From the opening game to lifting the iconic FIFA World Cup trophy, single player Tournament Mode allows you to play as one of the 32 qualified nations in an authentic recreation of the full tournament" what an absolute scam.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There was a lot of discussion over Russia's attitude at the time of the world cup and beyond. The lack of 'debate' was because there was nothing to debate, nobody tried to paint it as anti Russian propaganda because they were actually horrific to the LGBT community.

If there is any hypocrisy its from people who let criticism of Russia slide but are trying to turn the exact same criticism from a lot of the same people into some sort of persecution.

Also yep, it's the caf some of the people posting with no clue is part of the format, but I think calls of racism and Islamophobia is really dangerous, and if there is any it should be highlighted by report or private message. Vague shouts of discrimination just shut down comments.

Bingo. There was none of this whataboutism when Russia was getting criticised. That’s the biggest difference between how the two tournaments were perceived/discussed on here. Feck all to do with Islamophobia.

 

[moses]

The reason why I've said Islamophobia is linked to criticism of Qatar is because we just had a world cup in a country that had its own homophobic culture, plus had much much worse human rights violations and yet the condemnation wasn't nearly as severe as what we're seeing for Qatar.

While their human rights record isn't great, and they discriminate against LGBT, people are also uncomfortable about a Muslim majority country hosting a largely European, Christian, sport.

If Russia saw the same level of condemnation despite being a far worse country from a world perspective I would be fine with what is being said about Qatar. But that simply isn't the fact no matter the one or two examples of people protesting or talking against the world cup then.

I have no issue with people calling out Qatar on these issues but it does annoy me how most, if not all, of these same people were silent when the world cup was happening in Russia.

Russia did get a lot of criticism from the world's media is currently literally being fought with Western bombs, I'm not sure painting Qatar as hard done by compared to Russia because the Guardian and the liberal types on Redcafe don't approve of their Human Rights record is that accurate. Also same sex relations have been legal in Russia since 1993 with regional variations. Bizarrely it was only taken off their list of mental illnesses in 1999.
Here is a report on German ministers making a statement about anti LGBT laws in Russia from 2013. Here is a current statement by the UN Council about repealing an anti LGBT law. It has been pretty constant and included condemnation by Cameron and Obama.

While there may be people jumping on the bandwagon because they don't like Islam it is a totally separate issue to at least a century old fight for LGBT rights. And like I said if any poster is using this or any other issue to discriminate then report it and they will be banned if it's clear.

 

[Sky1981]

Long before workers death and LGBT issue people are already taking a snide on Qatar winning the bid. How dare they won over England.

The England media has been on overdrive ever since.

And yes... Issues happened, but dont tell me that there's nothing to do with it being Qatar in the first place.

 

[moses]

Long before workers death and LGBT issue people are already taking a snide on Qatar winning the bid. How dare they won over England.

The England media has been on overdrive ever since.

And yes... Issues happened, but dont tell me that there's nothing to do with it being Qatar in the first place.

There is no long before these issues, they are part of Qatari society for a while now.

You seem to accept there are Human Rights issues but are more concerned with the British Media reporting on it for the wrong reasons?

One of the loudest voices is the Guardian and this is not new for them, it's the kind of journalism that has defined them for decades.

I have news for you, some people do actually care about Human Rights.

 

[hasanejaz88]

There was a fair bit of controversy about Russia 2018 - a lot of focus on racism and Russian hooligan problems then a bit on gay rights and annexation of Crimea:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...abuses-war-crimes-world-cup-russia-fifa-putin

I can't really remember if there was more or less outcry compared to Qatar - maybe a look at old threads on here might answer that

I do think there are some tinges of islamophobia in this thread, large part of it is just ignorance from people who have no experience of this part of the world rather than willful though

Bingo. There was none of this whataboutism when Russia was getting criticised. That’s the biggest difference between how the two tournaments were perceived/discussed on here. Feck all to do with Islamophobia.

Absolute BS. Did you see any teams make custom made jerseys criticizing Russia, videos criticizing them? Countries not allowing public viewings of the tournament in protest? Former players openly saying they will be boycotting the tournament (Lahm said he will boycott Qatar and ironically was there for the trophy ceremony in Russia).

Hell, were there multiple Redcafe threads talking about issues in Russia?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Absolute BS. Did you see any teams make custom made jerseys criticizing Russia, videos criticizing them? Countries not allowing public viewings of the tournament in protest? Former players openly saying they will be boycotting the tournament (Lahm said he will boycott Qatar and ironically was there for the trophy ceremony in Russia).

Hell, were there multiple Redcafe threads talking about issues in Russia?

You’ve completely missed the point. The criticism of Russia didn’t provoke a fraction of the discussion we’re seeing about Qatar because literally nobody tried to defend Russia or push back against the criticism. Without all the arguing this thread would probably only be 5 pages long and disappeared off the home page days ago.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I think the harsh criticism on this world cup also stems from the fact that the migrant workers who died were actually buiding the stadiums, giving the rights violations a very direct link to football.

 

[calodo2003]

Bingo. There was none of this whataboutism when Russia was getting criticised. That’s the biggest difference between how the two tournaments were perceived/discussed on here. Feck all to do with Islamophobia.

This.

Manufactured outrage.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

You’ve completely missed the point. The criticism of Russia didn’t provoke a fraction of the discussion we’re seeing about Qatar because literally nobody tried to defend Russia or push back against the criticism. Without all the arguing this thread would probably only be 5 pages long and disappeared off the home page days ago.

This 100%.

Russian criticism was real and valid back then with little to no responses in defence of “but it’s a cultural difference”.

The law and culture in Russia was wrong then just as it’s wrong now. It makes no difference to me what influenced or led to that culture being created or how long it’s existed for.

It shouldn’t be illegal to have sex with another consenting adult. You shouldn’t still have a law that could lead to your death for sex with a consenting adult regardless of how often it is enforced.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Long before workers death and LGBT issue people are already taking a snide on Qatar winning the bid. How dare they won over England.

The England media has been on overdrive ever since.

And yes... Issues happened, but dont tell me that there's nothing to do with it being Qatar in the first place.

So one can’t be critical of the dodgy dealings of convicting members of FIFA and also be an advocate for human rights?

They are two very separate issues surrounding this World Cup but they are still both issues just the human rights issue is massive. The fact is if you want to host a global tournament the spotlight shines on the good and the bad and you can’t just use sport to highlight the possible good it would literally be sportswashing.

Do you expect people to ignore everything surrounding this World Cup and keep quiet?

Do you expect people to be complicit in the sportswashing for fear of being called islamaphobic?

 

[Rood]

Long before workers death and LGBT issue people are already taking a snide on Qatar winning the bid. How dare they won over England.

The England media has been on overdrive ever since.

And yes... Issues happened, but dont tell me that there's nothing to do with it being Qatar in the first place.

This is total nonsense because England didn't even bid for WC2022

England lost out to Russia for 2018

 

[hasanejaz88]

You’ve completely missed the point. The criticism of Russia didn’t provoke a fraction of the discussion we’re seeing about Qatar because literally nobody tried to defend Russia or push back against the criticism. Without all the arguing this thread would probably only be 5 pages long and disappeared off the home page days ago.

I don't disagree with the criticism, but what I disagree with is the level of criticism being labelled at Qatar while the same wasn't levelled at Russia. Shirts, videos, former players boycotting, even today in the Herta Berlin match v Bayern there is a huge banner calling for the boycott of Qatar that is visible throughout.

I was fine with the criticism being given against Qatar but it's the overreaction, when compared to Russia, which is a far worse country, that is annoying.

 

[Rood]

Absolute BS. Did you see any teams make custom made jerseys criticizing Russia, videos criticizing them? Countries not allowing public viewings of the tournament in protest? Former players openly saying they will be boycotting the tournament (Lahm said he will boycott Qatar and ironically was there for the trophy ceremony in Russia).

Hell, were there multiple Redcafe threads talking about issues in Russia?

I'm pretty sure there were several threads - I specifically remember a lot discussion about racism in Russia and whether it was safe for Black/Asian fans to go

I do think you have a point about the stronger reaction from actual teams and players but on the particular issue of gay rights there is a major difference. Homosexuality is not illegal in Russia whereas it is in Qatar.

There are of course also footballing reasons why many are against the World Cup in Qatar whereas there were no such criticism of the Russian bid

 

[moses]

Religion is at the core of their zeitgeist, their tradition, their laws, etc. It’s intellectually immature to argue otherwise. It’s okay to call a spade, a spade.

In this case, it’s religion that is at fault in my opinion. In the case of secular, communistic countries that are repressive towards LGBT rights, it’s the authoritarianism & the hate it foments that’s at fault.

I don't know if there is a difference between the two oppressions, I think it's religion being used to control. The Irish catholic church did the same thing, but it wasn't about theology. I know it's shades and nuance but its how the religion is used, rather than the theology of the religion.

 

[BD]

Qatar World Cup ambassador says homosexuality is 'damage in the mind'

"They have to accept our rules here," Salman said, in an excerpt of the interview. "(Homosexuality) is haram. You know what haram (forbidden) means?," he said.

When asked why it was haram, Salman said: "I am not a strict Muslim but why is it haram? Because it is damage in the mind."

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/s...says-homosexuality-is-damage-mind-2022-11-08/


The most annoying thing about this is that I'm sure this guy represents the actual thoughts of the Qatari officials, and all this supposed acceptance of gay visiting fans is just a show. There'll be an official statement saying he spoke out of line, but in reality they all agree - they're just not stupid enough to say it on air.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The most annoying thing about this is that I'm sure this guy represents the actual thoughts of the Qatari officials, and all this supposed acceptance of gay visiting fans is just a show.

Oh, they're very accepting: they even tolerate brain damaged people to visit the country.

There'll be an official statement saying he spoke out of line, but in reality they all agree - they're just not stupid enough to say it on air.

No doubt. This guy seems to be an utter idiot on top of being an arsehole. Probably having his tongue cut out as we speak.

 

[duffer]

Long before workers death and LGBT issue people are already taking a snide on Qatar winning the bid. How dare they won over England.

The England media has been on overdrive ever since.

"How dare they won over England?"

USA, South Korea, Japan, Australia and Qatar were the bidders for the 2022 world Cup.

There are many reasons people in England were annoyed with Qatar getting the world Cup, this ain't one of them.

 

[Seveneric]

I'd think actual brain damage might manifest in the belief of the existence of some invisible being and said invisible being telling you to do things, but what do I know (not a lot). Their belief in brain damaged gay people is their culture though and we must respect it.

 

[Botim]

I don't know if there is a difference between the two oppressions, I think it's religion being used to control. The Irish catholic church did the same thing, but it wasn't about theology. I know it's shades and nuance but its how the religion is used, rather than the theology of the religion.

That is just beyond naive. Every major holy book contains explicitly homophobic passages. It's taking these ancient scriptures as literal gospel that is and has always been the problem.

 

[moses]

That' is just beyond naive. Every major holy book contains explicitly homophobe passages. It's taking these ancient scriptures as literal gospel that is and has always been the problem.

Really? Beyond naive?! That's a shame. Good that we have a scholar at last to educate us.

I have read in several places that there is no explicit reference to homosexuality in the Quran , and that there is not literal but rather convoluted interpretations of the passages.

"Terms such as homosexuality, bisexuality and heterosexuality, by which modern society classifies human sexuality, are not used in the Quran. Nonetheless, a theme of sexuality, sexual permissibility and sexual prohibition pervades the Quran. It addresses a heterosexual audience, and is largely silent about non-heterosexual sex. It is important to recognise that this does not automatically imply condemnation of the latter." link

The same apples to the Christian Gospels. Leviticus, from the Old Testament, I have read and that seems to say that when you lie with a man as with a woman you should be killed. To counter your position on literal interpretation, I'm not aware of any Christian country that, as opposed as they are to homosexuality, enforce the death penalty?

I'm a bit disappointed to be beyond naive. Can you elucidate such an aggressive claim?

 

[Botim]

Really? I have read in several places that there is no explicit reference to homosexuality in the Quran , and that there is not literal but rather convoluted interpretations of the passages.

I'm a bit disappointed to be beyond naive. Can you elucidate such an aggressive claim?

Maybe I shouldn't have said "beyond" naive. What I meant is that it is typical for (mostly very liberal) western people to sugarcoat the source of homophobia in big parts of the world. The reason IS religion itself, not just how naughty people interpret the religion. The Quran is kind of vague about it, but the Quran is far from the only basis of religious law in Islam. It's the Hadith which contain most of the hateful passages. This one from the Sunni side for example (comparing it to bestiality):

"Whoever you find doing as the people of Lot did (i.e. homosexuality), kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done, and if you find anyone having sexual intercourse with animal, kill him and kill the animal."

Leviticus I have read and that seems to say that when you lie with a man as with a woman you should be killed. To counter your position on literal interpretation, I'm not aware of any Christian country, as opposed as they are to homosexuality, enforce the death penalty?

Christianity isn't a state religion nowadays. There are no Christian equivalents to Iran (anymore). In places where it still has a strong influence on politics, you'll usually find homophobic attitudes/laws. You can bet your ass we'd still be persecuting gay people in Europe if we hadn't shed the burden of religion (as an institute of worldly power).

 

[KirkDuyt]

The comparison of unveiled women with an unwrapped candy bar. Jesus wept

Wait, I'm sorry, I should be more respective of different cultures. Ma bad.

 

[moses]

Maybe I shouldn't have said "beyond" naive. What I meant is that it is typical for (mostly very liberal) western people to sugarcoat the source of homophobia in big parts of the world. The reason IS religion itself, not just how naughty people interpret the religion. The Quran is kind of vague about it, but the Quran is far from the only basis of religious law in Islam. It's the Hadith which contain most of the hateful passages. This one from the Sunni side for example (comparing it to bestiality):

"Whoever you find doing as the people of Lot did (i.e. homosexuality), kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done, and if you find anyone having sexual intercourse with animal, kill him and kill the animal."



Christianity isn't a state religion nowadays. There are no Christian equivalents to Iran (anymore). In places where it still has a strong influence on politics, you'll usually find homophobic attitudes/laws. You can bet your ass we'd still be persecuting gay people in Europe if we hadn't shed the burden of religion (as an institute of worldly power).

What in this thread led you to believe I am sugarcoating homophobia? . I have no time for intolerance.

There are at least 20 counties that consider themselves Christian States, Ireland is one of them, with Church reach into schools and hospitals and we were one of the first countries to codify gay marriage.

My point is that religions have at times used all form of sexual oppression as control and it is not necessarily an insurmountable theological issue.

 

[Lay]

"How dare they won over England?"

USA, South Korea, Japan, Australia and Qatar were the bidders for the 2022 world Cup.

There are many reasons people in England were annoyed with Qatar getting the world Cup, this ain't one of them.

Totally off topic here, but I'm sure Australia will never host one due to the time zone? South Korea and Japan hosted one 20 years ago, might be too soon to return again, though a sole WC in Japan or South Korea would have been nice. USA probably should have won it out of that list because they haven't hosted since 1994 and already have the infrastructure. Though they host it for 2026 anyway with Mexico and Canada. Anyway for 2030 despite Asia not being allowed to host, South Korea and North Korea want to co-host the tournament. What a doozy that would be

 

[Botim]

What in this thread led you to believe I am sugarcoating homophobia? . I have no time for intolerance.

Not sugarcoating homophobia, sugarcoating the reason for homophobia. Can you be a tolerant, loving muslim/Christian/...? Of course you can. That doesn't change the fact that nearly all religions are homophobic. So in my opinion, it is very much a theological issue. (Obviously the even deeper problem is that people genuinely believe there are laws that are unquestionable because they were issued by a higher lifeform)

 

[moses]

Not sugarcoating homophobia, sugarcoating the reason for homophobia. Can you be a tolerant, loving muslim/Christian/...? Of course you can. That doesn't change the fact that nearly all religions are homophobic. So in my opinion, it is very much a theological issue. (Obviously the even deeper problem is that people genuinely believe there are laws that are unquestionable because they were issued by a higher lifeform)

Yeah I don't think you can sugarcoat any attempt at an understanding.

Firstly I'm a proud atheist with lists of reasons to get rid of religion. But if you can have bigots and non bigots within a religion then it's not clear cut that religion is the cause. There is without a doubt more references to harmony and benevolence in practically all of the religious books.

The issue is when religion is used not as a medium for spiritual wellness but instead for governance and control. The aim is control and oppression and historically the best tool to motivate people is religion.

 

[calodo2003]

Qatari WC ambassador...

 

[Maagge]

Qatari WC ambassador...

Let's all be very respectful now.

 

[Stactix]

Absolute BS. Did you see any teams make custom made jerseys criticizing Russia, videos criticizing them? Countries not allowing public viewings of the tournament in protest? Former players openly saying they will be boycotting the tournament (Lahm said he will boycott Qatar and ironically was there for the trophy ceremony in Russia).

Hell, were there multiple Redcafe threads talking about issues in Russia?

Seem to have recency bias, there was plenty of controversy around the Russia worldcup
Though Russia didn't subject migrant workers to utterly disgraceful working conditions that amount to modern slavery which sadly cost the lives of 1000s. Not 10s, 1000s of lives. Qatar treated those workers like dirt, their living conditions, their pay and their working conditions were utterly disgraceful and Qatar had the resources to change that but did not.

Then you factor in their LGBT laws, it's not illegal in Russia for a start. Drinking restrictions during a world cup, no sex without marriage.. doesn't sound very safe for fans that just want to enjoy themselves.


It'll be a plastic world cup. Does it improve football in anyway? If anything it completely degrades football due to the migrant deaths & the fact it can't be freely enjoyed due to regressive laws.
When you factor in who they were competing against for this WC and none of the other bids would of required disrupting the football season & had the capacity to host with considerably less work needed.
It sends a very poor message.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Seem to have recency bias, there was plenty of controversy around the Russia worldcup
Though Russia didn't subject migrant workers to utterly disgraceful working conditions that amount to modern slavery which sadly cost the lives of 1000s. Not 10s, 1000s of lives. Qatar treated those workers like dirt, their living conditions, their pay and their working conditions were utterly disgraceful and Qatar had the resources to change that but did not.

Then you factor in their LGBT laws, it's not illegal in Russia for a start. Drinking restrictions during a world cup, no sex without marriage.. doesn't sound very safe for fans that just want to enjoy themselves.


It'll be a plastic world cup. Does it improve football in anyway? If anything it completely degrades football due to the migrant deaths & the fact it can't be freely enjoyed due to regressive laws.
When you factor in who they were competing against for this WC and none of the other bids would of required disrupting the football season & had the capacity to host with considerably less work needed.
It sends a very poor message.

Not a dig at you or anything - but I do find it funny when these things are put in there as criticisms alongside other legitimate issues. They're so trivial by comparison, and in a world where the other stuff was all sorted out, really wouldn't be an issue.

 

[jadajos]

sorry had been posted already...