Shut up you western propagandist
Foreign secretary advice to LGBT fans.... Be respectful
- Thread starter GaryLifo
- Start date
Somehow this is beyond understanding for most on this thread.
I don't think Qatar wants to host everyone.
They bribed the FIFA to get a WC that they can use to sportswash their regime to a lot but not all of the population. They already succeeded at that when the thousands of migrant worker deaths were swept under the table.
Good post. This secretary could have asked people to be cognizant of and follow the rules if they went to Qatar instead of respect, and that would be a sensible take.
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Doesnt respect the law esentially mean obey the law?
They can overlap in usage but not the same by definition. But you know that.
English isn't my first language so just asking without any conotation whatsoever.
Saying that quote from the foreign secretary is bad to say the least.
English isn't my first language so just asking without any conotation whatsoever.
Saying that quote from the foreign secretary is bad to say the least.
My apologies. You can definitely obey a law or person while having no respect for them.
Great post! A lot of posters in this thread should be ashamed of themselves.
Basically, think of redcafe mods.
"Respect the law" also wasn't what was said. It was to be respectful of the host nation, respect the culture, to show a little flex, and that the Qatari government are very keen to make sure that everyone is safe.
Several people have tried to make the point that Cleverly is just informing people of a risk, but he's obviously not. If he had just said that it's dangerous to be gay in Qatar, and that this is something visitors have to be aware of, then no one would have reacted.
I agree, I was just answering a direct question. I don't think it was lack of thought or that he misspoke. I think the reaction is justified.
What counts as being respectful. Should gay couples not kiss each other?
If a countries laws infringes on someones personal rights and tells them what they can and cannot do with someone they love then there should be no respect for that law.
I am going to revist all my posts and see how I outed myself.
I don't think that's something restricted to a Western perspective. With a global event there's always going to be some criteria that needs to be met or adhered to. South Africa were expelled from Fifa, or Germany and Japan being banned from competing in the wake of the second world war, and Russia currently. When you're not only competing but hosting the event obviously the scrutiny is going to be a lot higher, and I think it's understandable that people will have a threshold for what they deem unacceptable when it comes to hosting a global event of this magnitude. In this scenario it could be the migrant worker conditions, and your own sexual orientation being a crime. In the last world cup it could have easily been Russia's human rights record and their annexing of Crimea. If the world cup was to be hosted in Israel, there would be a boycott of the event from various countries. A sporting event like the world cup helps shape modern geopolitics, so while the motivations may differ between countries the bolded is very much a global thing.
As for the idea of these events as a driver for change, I'm a little torn. I think there's merit to what you say, and sport can be a vehicle for positive progress.
What counts as personal rights? there are many laws that infringe on what could be considered peoples personal rights in almost all countries. I`m not sure that means there should just be no respect for a law automatically?
That`s the point is it not....people can choose but you have to be prepared to suffer consequences of your actions in the world that we live in.
I`m not saying that is right or wrong by the way, but that is how it is.
The original post asked why is not being boycotted? The answer is that it is being boycotted (by some) but not by others. Not everyone shares the same opinions so to assume everyone should boycott it is a falsehood.
If there is any chance of it being a vehicle for change it will most likely be a reaction to protests and dissent.
I largely agree.
Being gay is not like robbing a bank. The issue here is about crimininalising an innate characteristic of a person.
Personal rights since you ask are key. Does the personal right of someone who dislikes homosexuality have any sway over the personal rights of two people who want to have sex with each other? Does one person's personal freedom enable them to decide how someone else lives?
But yeah, like in Russia, feck all will change. I hate FIFA so much.
What would have really made a splash is if one of the top teams boycotted it after qualifying, with all the players behind the decision. I don't think something like this will happen in the next 15 years though.
Yeah, and I don't think it would be as risky as one might imagine. I'd say the global support would be huge. Would you take a finacial hit? Would FIFA feck you up somehow? How much do you make from participation? I know for Ireland participation generated huge money (although in hindsight that never filtered to grass roots so it was pointless).
Denmark say they considered it but ultimately all players want to play at the World Cup regardless of where it is
Check the list of rules Qatar are handing out to fans...
Anyone with a choice shouldn't be going if you don't agree with their choice on such issues.
They shouldn't have been given the tournament.
Watch it for free, that's it.
Anyone with a choice shouldn't be going if you don't agree with their choice on such issues.
They shouldn't have been given the tournament.
Watch it for free, that's it.
Not sure about Qatar per se but that neck of the woods has pretty much similar rules.
No overt displays of affection. I've seen folk hold hands and no issue. I've seen more men holding hands than say a man and his wife. Hugging and kissing is a "norm" for the men. Usually a kiss on the cheek though not a full on "snog". Can't think of a better word. Similarly with men and women.
The whole sleeping in one bed that someone mentioned before is something I haven't seen being a problem either. Many of the workers for example sleep 2/3 to a bed and it's not seen as an issue.
I've seen men a and women go to those areas and the men will share a room and the women will too.
The only time it's been an issue, from what I know is people getting too amorous. So holding your partner's hand and walking isn't remotely am issue. Having her against a wall and your tongue down her throat whilst your hands are exploring her bits will get you in trouble.
Me personally, would happily never see the latter anywhere from whatever orientation takes your fancy.
There are issues with most places around the world that need addressing as a global community, Qatar maybe more than others but I think some of what's being mentioned is maybe a little sensationalist.
Sacha Baron should go as Bruno. I would pay money to watch that.
And what if there was? Would it be ok to arrest and murder people because "tradition"???? The "hysteria" is around the fact that Qatar wanted to be part of the International community, but still be playing by its own rules. It should never have happened, and without the bribes it never would have happened. The "hysteria" is that the world has been a very bigoted place for a very long time. And the little progresses have been made over hundreds of years because people said something. People are saying something here. Qatar wanted to be part of the international community, well, this is what that looks like. If they dont like it, they should stay the feck away from the rest of us. Because injustice will always be pointed out. They wanted the spotlight, they got it, dont start moaning now because its too bright.
What the foreign minister and some people in this thread are saying is "just go back in the closet for a month.". This is a fight that is still going on around the world. Why exactly should Qatar get a pass on that fight? Because of the threat of arrest and murder? If you cant see the problem here, well, thats a problem in itself. I wonder, if wearing a UTD shirt was a crime, would you pretend to be a city fan just to make some rich bigots happy?
Im sorry, but this World Cup needs to be boycotted. It's just a shame the "Im alright jacks" will happily go along anyway.
Respect their culture to hate and discriminate? This is is just a classic case of people with shit tons of money who wants to show it off to the world. Look at us we have money and we can buy whoever and whatever we want. We can buy football and there's nothing the world can do about it.
It's not your country. If it offends you so much, don't attend. This foreign secretary is just reinforcing something that should be universally understood. Nothing wrong with this at all.
And yes, LGBT people have the right to exist and discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation is wrong.
And yes, LGBT people have the right to exist and discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation is wrong.
Those two points of view can’t coexist.
Generally in the Gulf countries, in public couples whether hetero or homo should not kiss (or any PDA) - what you do in private is up to you
I don't really see a big deal in that TBH
That part only applies to the straights.
Their culture is disrespectful at the very least and extremely problematic. Arrest someone for being LGBT? Feck that. We shouldn't have to respect such an intolerant and abusive country. And that's not even getting into all the problems with what they did to build the damn stadiums that has been discussed on here and elsewhere for years.
It's not just "a few". They should change 100s years of cultural history because it's the right thing to do. They are on the wrong side of history, to say the least.
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No he should go as Eran Morad.
It shouldn't and doesn't in most places. Always exceptions to the rule.
Problem is how something is presented. I've given the example before but Oscar Wilde wasn't imprisoned because he was homosexual. He was imprisoned because he accused that other guy (whose name I always forget). Doesn't mean there hasn't been a narrative since
They absolutely can.
I can believe bending the knee to an arbitrary royal family is antiquated and waste of public resources, but when I'm in the UK I have to respect the traditions and culture. You can disagree with capital punishment or the mass incarceration of black people in America, but when you come here you must respect our laws. I can disagree with the treatment of women in many countries, but I still must respect their laws and culture. Immigrants and visitors to foreign countries have been doing this for thousands of years even as the world has become less conservative.
Respect and etiquette is only controversial to those who don't have any.
That's complete nonsense. None of us has to respect bad laws that are clear human rights violations (like treatment of women or allowing arrests for being LGBT in Qatar). It might be pragmatic to avoid doing things to get arrested in such a country, certainly, but none of us have to "respect" that country's laws. Or to put it another way, you can avoid breaking the law in front of authorities without respecting said law.
"to refrain from interfering with"
This is the definition of respect the foreign secretary intended. If you avoid breaking the law you respect the law, even if you disagree with the law.