Foreign secretary advice to LGBT fans.... Be respectful

The Boy said:
Any world sporting body can refuse to give a world event to a country who's laws discriminate against universal human rights. If you want to invite the world to your country for the world cup and reap all the benefits that come with it then you should accept diversity. If you don't want to do that don't host a world cup. FIFA has a lot to answer for here.
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Exactly. It was FIFA's decision. Qatar's rules are clear and have never been kept in secret.
 
lefty_jakobz said:
Well I was initially replying to the OP (he specifically used the politicians statement) before you and others jumped in and told me I was wrong for bring the deaths of migrants into a public show of affection showdown.
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Not wrong to bring it up, just needlessly making some hierarchy of injustice. And the bizarre presumption that people not mentioning the workers in a thread about LGBT issues meant they didn't care about them.
 
Water Melon said:
Exactly. It was FIFA's decision. Qatar's rules are clear and have never been kept in secret.
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You're ignoring one crucial point though, if Qatar wants the world to come and they clearly do, they paid enough money for it, they need to tolerate the diversity that brings. Being gay like being straight or any other sexuality is not a choice so it should never be discriminated against.
 
moses said:
Not wrong to bring it up, just needlessly making some hierarchy of injustice. And the bizarre presumption that people not mentioning the workers in a thread about LGBT issues meant they didn't care about them.
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Ofcourse people care about the deaths its just another reason that Qatar should never have been awarded to host the competition, but its the politician in the op thats targeted the LGBTQ community and he should face the ire of that, no?
 
The Boy said:
You're ignoring one crucial point though, if Qatar wants the world to come and they clearly do, they paid enough money for it, they need to tolerate the diversity that brings.
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they don't need to though. plenty of people will come regardless. just like they didn't need to be "football country" to become hosts.
 
Siorac said:
Counter-productive to what?

Hosting a World Cup isn't some sort of divine right. There are many countries that will never get to host one, regardless of human rights, simply because they are too small/poor/lacking in infrastructure.
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I feel it could be a very nice opportunity for many countries economically and otherwise and it will have the effect of perhaps somewhat modernizing the countries that it take place in, the very same thing you may be looking for.

It's obviously not a divine rightist say Indonesia could host a world cup i would like to see it happen and im sure it will relax the very laws that you oppose if it happened.

Also it's a very very western oriented view to only give it to countries that you agree with, gifa is a global organization with globalization membership and it should function that way.
 
lefty_jakobz said:
Ofcourse people care about the deaths its just another reason that Qatar should never have been awarded to host the competition, but its the politician in the op thats targeted the LGBTQ community and he should face the ire of that, no?
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Yes. He should.

If you are genuinely wondering how that led to criticism of Qatar then I can't help you.
 
Red the Bear said:
I feel it could be a very nice opportunity for many countries economically and otherwise and it will have the effect of perhaps somewhat modernizing the countries that it take place in, the very same thing you may be looking for.

It's obviously not a divine rightist say Indonesia could host a world cup i would like to see it happen and im sure it will relax the very laws that you oppose if it happened.

Also it's a very very western oriented view to only give it to countries that you agree with, gifa is a global organization with globalization membership and it should function that way.
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And as a global organisation they should make sure that whoever hosts the World Cup is welcoming of all people around that globe. Qatar is not.
 
lefty_jakobz said:
Ofcourse people care about the deaths its just another reason that Qatar should never have been awarded to host the competition, but its the politician in the op thats targeted the LGBTQ community and he should face the ire of that, no?
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Do you think Qatar’s views on homosexuality are okay?
 
moses said:
Yes, and a general statement where there wasn't a specified onus on gay fans to compromise would not have caused this reaction. It could feel that for a British member of the LGBT community their government did a bit of the 'two sides to this', when there clearly isn't. So that is at least part of the reaction. And then of course the whole conversation widens to the laws and cultures.
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Its just a classic reaction of people being offended for the sake of it. The LGBT community are more at risk at the world cup than most other groups. To not specifically target those people with your message would be stupid and irresponsible and instead of supporting the LGBT community it would do them a disservice.

I don't know if you are part of the gay community or not but my partner works in for the NHS and we 100% target advice and resources to support the gay community where it is most needed. We don't avoid the fact that gay men indulge in certain behaviour at a much higher rate than straight men so as not to offend. We accept the reality of it and try to mitigate the risks they face in the best way possible. Its silly not to acknowledge the issues someone faces because you don't want to treat them differently even though they are different.

When people go to certain countries they are very aware of their obscenely harsh attitude towards drugs. That probably doesn't change anything for 90% of the population but for the 10% of people who like drugs its a very important and targeted message that they need to hear and understand. If the WC was in Thailand I would 100% expect them to explicitly warn drug users of the risks and not float about the issue with "some laws are a little different so just be careful out there kids".

It boggles my mind slightly that people are up in arms about someone trying to protect a group that is at higher risk of harm.
 
moses said:
Yes. He should.

If you are genuinely wondering how that led to criticism of Qatar then I can't help you.
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No what I am alluding to is that the minister has stoked up an issue with his choice of words. had he just said anyone going should refrain from showing public shows of affection then there would have been less outcry. The fact that he specifically referred to the LGBTQ community is the issue.

we all know Qatar should never have been able to host the tournament, the Whole planet knew it was a bad choice for them to hold such a tournament.
 
There is such a weird and inorganic dichotomy constructed in this thread. As a result of championing human rights and LGBT equality I have been called GW Bush and reminded the British Empire was awful.

Surreal.

The defence of human rights seen as an imperialist attack on Islam.

A new dawn, the rise of the western Christian Gay Anti Arab imperialists. Its, like a Monty Python sketch.
 
lefty_jakobz said:
No what I am alluding to is that the minister has stoked up an issue with his choice of words. had he just said anyone going should refrain from showing public shows of affection then there would have been less outcry. The fact that he specifically referred to the LGBTQ community is the issue.

we all know Qatar should never have been able to host the tournament, the Whole planet knew it was a bad choice for them to hold such a tournament.
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Exactly, nothing to do with not caring about migrant workers.
 
Abizzz said:
Be that as it may the society I'm currently in values free speech. And I value decency. As such I think it's fair for me to say I find some aspects of the Qatari society cruel, indecent and medieval. They have every right to be cruel, indecent and medieval, they may do as they like, but that doesn't free them from being described as such.
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And I'm not absolving them of that at all
 
mctrials23 said:
Its just a classic reaction of people being offended for the sake of it. The LGBT community are more at risk at the world cup than most other groups. To not specifically target those people with your message would be stupid and irresponsible and instead of supporting the LGBT community it would do them a disservice.

I don't know if you are part of the gay community or not but my partner works in for the NHS and we 100% target advice and resources to support the gay community where it is most needed. We don't avoid the fact that gay men indulge in certain behaviour at a much higher rate than straight men so as not to offend. We accept the reality of it and try to mitigate the risks they face in the best way possible. Its silly not to acknowledge the issues someone faces because you don't want to treat them differently even though they are different.

When people go to certain countries they are very aware of their obscenely harsh attitude towards drugs. That probably doesn't change anything for 90% of the population but for the 10% of people who like drugs its a very important and targeted message that they need to hear and understand. If the WC was in Thailand I would 100% expect them to explicitly warn drug users of the risks and not float about the issue with "some laws are a little different so just be careful out there kids".

It boggles my mind slightly that people are up in arms about someone trying to protect a group that is at higher risk of harm.
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You make a good point.
 
mctrials23 said:
Its just a classic reaction of people being offended for the sake of it. The LGBT community are more at risk at the world cup than most other groups. To not specifically target those people with your message would be stupid and irresponsible and instead of supporting the LGBT community it would do them a disservice.

I don't know if you are part of the gay community or not but my partner works in for the NHS and we 100% target advice and resources to support the gay community where it is most needed. We don't avoid the fact that gay men indulge in certain behaviour at a much higher rate than straight men so as not to offend. We accept the reality of it and try to mitigate the risks they face in the best way possible. Its silly not to acknowledge the issues someone faces because you don't want to treat them differently even though they are different.

When people go to certain countries they are very aware of their obscenely harsh attitude towards drugs. That probably doesn't change anything for 90% of the population but for the 10% of people who like drugs its a very important and targeted message that they need to hear and understand. If the WC was in Thailand I would 100% expect them to explicitly warn drug users of the risks and not float about the issue with "some laws are a little different so just be careful out there kids".

It boggles my mind slightly that people are up in arms about someone trying to protect a group that is at higher risk of harm.
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Couldn't get past the lazy bolded trope.
 
HTG said:
And as a global organisation they should make sure that whoever hosts the World Cup is welcoming of all people around that globe. Qatar is not.
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Fine I guess, there's no point in arguing.

I wonder how such a vote would end up in fifa.
 
moses said:
There is such a weird and inorganic dichotomy constructed in this thread. As a result of championing human rights and LGBT equality I have been called GW Bush and reminded the British Empire was awful.

Surreal.

The defence of human rights seen as an imperialist attack on Islam.

A new dawn, the rise of the western Christian Gay Anti Arab imperialists. Its, like a Monty Python sketch.
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Well if the shoe fits…

Only joking Im pretty sure you aren’t GW Bush…I think
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You make a good point.
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But it loops back to the British government seemingly putting the burden unfairly on the people who are being discriminated against. . Let's face it, the refusal of the British Government to deal with certain Arab States and human rights is glaring.
 
moses said:
But it loops back to the British government seemingly putting the burden unfairly on the people who are being discriminated against. . Let's face it, the refusal of the British Government to deal with certain Arab States and human rights is glaring.
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As they say money talks bullshit walks
 
mctrials23 said:
Its just a classic reaction of people being offended for the sake of it. The LGBT community are more at risk at the world cup than most other groups. To not specifically target those people with your message would be stupid and irresponsible and instead of supporting the LGBT community it would do them a disservice.

I don't know if you are part of the gay community or not but my partner works in for the NHS and we 100% target advice and resources to support the gay community where it is most needed. We don't avoid the fact that gay men indulge in certain behaviour at a much higher rate than straight men so as not to offend. We accept the reality of it and try to mitigate the risks they face in the best way possible. Its silly not to acknowledge the issues someone faces because you don't want to treat them differently even though they are different.

When people go to certain countries they are very aware of their obscenely harsh attitude towards drugs. That probably doesn't change anything for 90% of the population but for the 10% of people who like drugs its a very important and targeted message that they need to hear and understand. If the WC was in Thailand I would 100% expect them to explicitly warn drug users of the risks and not float about the issue with "some laws are a little different so just be careful out there kids".

It boggles my mind slightly that people are up in arms about someone trying to protect a group that is at higher risk of harm.
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There's a difference between "don't bring drugs into this country" and "don't be gay in this country".

Similarly, there's a massive difference between having laws against homosexuals, and having targeted health advice. I think the word 'respect' here is the big problem. Fair enough - people should know and be aware of the facts of the country they're potentially going to, but to ask people to respect those laws is too much.
 
Wumminator said:
I don’t know. As you refuse to answer a question.
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Haha.

Maybe im a closet anti LGBTQ? Is there a pun in there somewhere?

To answer your question, feck Qatar and any other country that hates solely for the reason of someone being different…
 
lefty_jakobz said:
So…what does that tell you?
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This thread tells me you are very annoyed that people are protesting Qatar's LGBT stance. That you struggle with thread titles, and literally nothing else.

One could make a few guesses based on that but theyd only be guesses.
 
BD said:
There's a difference between "don't bring drugs into this country" and "don't be gay in this country".

Similarly, there's a massive difference between having laws against homosexuals, and having targeted health advice. I think the word 'respect' here is the big problem. Fair enough - people should know and be aware of the facts of the country they're potentially going to, but to ask people to respect those laws is too much.
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You also make a good point.
 
Pronewbie said:
The propaganda in the West is breathtaking. No country is perfect and that includes those in the North West. We'd have boycott every world cup otherwise.
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Do you call propaganda everything you don't even remotely understand, including the term itself? Because your post makes no sense.
 
Red the Bear said:
Fine I guess, there's no point in arguing.

I wonder how such a vote would end up in fifa.
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There rarely is a point in arguing against reason. You want to host people from all over the world? Than treat those people equally and with respect. They refuse to do so. That makes them an awful host. It’s that simple.
 
Be respectful to the country/religion/society you are visiting?
I`m not sure I see a problem with this?
 
moses said:
This thread tells me you are very annoyed that people are protesting Qatar's LGBT stance. That you struggle with thread titles, and literally nothing else.

One could make a few guesses based on that but theyd only be guesses.
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Now I can see the Dubya reference
 
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