Fixed.
Florian Wirtz | Leverkusen player
- Thread starter Invictus
- Start date
Fixed.
His battle with Xavi Simons in Germany's next match will be interesting. Both insanely talented players but Xavi has sort of gone under the radar in the BL due to Wirtz and Musiala's performances.
I think the most remarkable thing about him is that he somehow looks even better after the injury. I guess “lucky” for it to have happened at such a young age in his career, but how often do you see that?Was voted player of the month for the third time this season (Harry Kane still at 0). Bundesliga.de provided some interesting stats for February on that occasion as well:
- fourth youngest player to have 100 Bundesliga appearances despite his ACL
- ran 12.3 km (7.6 miles) and made 36 sprints oer 90 minutes
- most duels (105) of his team despite being an attacking midfielder
That is because they are all far better
I think ACLs have lost a bit of their "notoriety" since they can be treated quite well these days. Suffering one 20 years ago is probably now the equivalent to suffering two today. But yes, he came back incredibly well - but Alonso also managed his minutes excellently, giving him rests even when Wirtz seemed to disagree a bit. Alonso is probably instrumental in the improvement you mentioned as well. Before him, Wirtz was kind of a "dribbling Bruno" player who always went for the final ball and lost it many times. Now he's regularly racking up 90% passing accuracy and 80 touches per game and has even more chance creating plays in terms of through balls, dribbles and shots.
I'm very happy that he now receives more attention on the big stage thanks to our outstanding season and his presence for Germany. IMO, many haven't really realized how good he is.
Will be nice to see him spend some of his development years under Pep
they never learn, do they?Yeah the last time he kicked a ball before Alonso he was also kinda like 18 years old. Shocking that he was not a complete footballer yet.
Not that I disagree that Alonso has been instrumental in the development of many Leverkusen players. You still need to have the talent and desire.
Yeah the last time he kicked a ball before Alonso he was also kinda like 18 years old. Shocking that he was not a complete footballer yet.
Not that I disagree that Alonso has been instrumental in the development of many Leverkusen players. You still need to have the talent and desire.
Of course, he was also absolutely brillant under Seoane as well. Just wanted to point out that he developed a new dimension to his game
You really think Pep is going back to Bayern?
That's the part I feel we/United are missing with Bruno. Keep the ball more, you'll get more chances to play the killer pass ..
That's not true, Xavi has been great this season himself. Look at any ratings and he, Musiala and Wirtz are all very close.
I have my eye test and the other two especially Musiala are better.
Great intelligent player but I'm unsure if he's an elite 10. Seems to lack passing range of Bergkamp, Fabregas, Silva etc.
Let me guess you watched him for 90 minutes against West Ham´s bus and were disappointed he didn´t play some neat through balls against a low nine man block.
Let me guess you watched him for 90 minutes against West Ham´s bus and were disappointed he didn´t play some neat through balls against a low nine man block.
I've watched him a few times actually; not often, so could be wrong. He seems to me, a secondary playmaker profile but lacks incisive passing. Foden is similar; great dribbler, at closer control and shooter without the elite passing.
Usually, people see Wirtz as an Özil kind of player who "only" plays incisive passes and his, in my opinion, already world class dribbling ability is overlooked but this is the first time I see somebody not rating his incisive passing
Thing is, Wirtz plays incredible through balls and crosses (most assists in Europe so far) but in contrast to somebody like de Bruyne or Bruno, he doesn't force them. So if a team parks the bus like West Ham yesterday with 9 men in their own box, he will retain possession and keep the ball moving most often. If you want to see how good he is at incisive passing, watch this video from around 4:20 onwards. if you don't have much time, at least make sure to watch 5:45 and 6:15, that tells you enough already
Can only recommend the full video, though. He's simply a joy to watch this season (and the last one as well to be honest). Naigelsman will be all over the German national squad for his new club gig, wherever that will be. I love F Wirtz and that’s coming from an English man, yes Muisaka is better and both are just a tad behind Bellingham and Foden, but Germany for me are the favourites for the Euros with England and France.
Naigelman 3421 system suits the players and now he’s got Kimmich to concentrate on playing RB and the master Kross back they will be seriously dangerous,
Ter Stegan or Neuer in Goal, Kimmich, Tah, Rudiger, Mittelstadt, T Kroos, A Pavlovic, J Muisala, F Wirtz, K Havertz
with D Raum, R Koch, I Gubdogan, P Gros,
L Goretzka , T Muhler, N Fullkrug, D Undav
There’s more than enough there if motivated to go far in their own Euros. Yes Rudiger, Kross, Gundogan and Muhler are aging but they’ve won big titles, underestimate them at your peril.
Naigelman 3421 system suits the players and now he’s got Kimmich to concentrate on playing RB and the master Kross back they will be seriously dangerous,
Ter Stegan or Neuer in Goal, Kimmich, Tah, Rudiger, Mittelstadt, T Kroos, A Pavlovic, J Muisala, F Wirtz, K Havertz
with D Raum, R Koch, I Gubdogan, P Gros,
L Goretzka , T Muhler, N Fullkrug, D Undav
There’s more than enough there if motivated to go far in their own Euros. Yes Rudiger, Kross, Gundogan and Muhler are aging but they’ve won big titles, underestimate them at your peril.
What is it with you butchering player names?
Also he is going to use a 4231 with the national team now, not a 3421. Nonetheless the first team you mentioned is probably most of his starting team, but Pavlovic won't be a starter but - if finally included - just a backup. As of now the preferred formation seems to be:
Neuer
Kimmich - Tah - Rüdiger - Mittelstädt
Andrich - Kroos
Musiala - Gündogan - Wirtz
Havertz
Changes seem to be mostly possible in the front four with Füllkrug as the more classic/physical alternative to Havertz and Sane (if back in form) being an option for the "triple 10". Players like Müller, Führich or Undav likely will be mostly backups there.
But forget about Goretzka, he was effectively kicked out of the team by Nagelsmann.
While Wirtz and Musiala can presumably co-exist in the same team, are their best positions both as 10’s?
Yes, but both are used to (at least sometimes) play on the wing. However when they do, they usually do it relatively narrow as they tend to play centrally. But for example Wirtz usually plays in a 3421 system as part of the "double 10", so he naturally at times supports on the wing while the other 10 stays more centrally.
Musiala can easily play on the wing in an inverted role. I think they link up very well and desperately want Wirtz at Bayern.
Funnily enough, I'd rank them exactly the other way round
Though I haven't seen much of Foden this season, he seems to be phenomenal judging by Pep's comments. But based solely on their Bundesliga performances, I'd say Wirtz > Musiala > Bellingham. Yes. I'd say fitting both in one team is more about the right balance of playstyles. Wirtz and Musiala are both players who like to see a lot of the ball and dribble very often. So I think somebody like Gündogan who likes to play one touch football besides them works better than e. g. Leroy Sané who is also a player who engages in many one on ones and likes to carry the ball across the pitch.
Funnily enough, I'd rank them exactly the other way round
Yes. I'd say fitting both in one team is more about the right balance of playstyles. Wirtz and Musiala are both players who like to see a lot of the ball and dribble very often. So I think somebody like Gündogan who likes to play one touch football besides them works better than e. g. Leroy Sané who is also a player who engages in many one on ones and likes to carry the ball across the pitch.
Bellingham played deeper in Dortmund, but he's still the best player out of those 4 players IMO.
Agreed on Musiala > Foden though if that's what you mean
No, I meant Bellingham. For Dortmund, Bellingham hasn't gotten close to the level Musiala and especially Wirtz show this season. Bellingham has improved massively for Real Madrid and I really don't intend to belittle him but I still have Musiala and Wirtz ahead of him.
So would I.
Usually, people see Wirtz as an Özil kind of player who "only" plays incisive passes and his, in my opinion, already world class dribbling ability is overlooked but this is the first time I see somebody not rating his incisive passing
If you want to see how good he is at incisive passing, watch this video from around 4:20 onwards. if you don't have much time, at least make sure to watch 5:45 and 6:15, that tells you enough already
Fair but he's still not on the level of the greatest playmakers at passing
Bellingham is the best number 10 in world football, he’s a beast he’ll just dominate the smaller man 9 times out of 10, you don’t go to Madrid dominate the league, he’s played 32 games domestic and CL and got 20 goals and 9 assists, perspective Jude is doing it in the CL, F Wirtz in the Europa League His stats are also exceptional played 40 - Goals 14 - Assists 18 but the Europa League is not the CL. He may have been better last year but this years version of Jude is best in the world.Funnily enough, I'd rank them exactly the other way round
Yes. I'd say fitting both in one team is more about the right balance of playstyles. Wirtz and Musiala are both players who like to see a lot of the ball and dribble very often. So I think somebody like Gündogan who likes to play one touch football besides them works better than e. g. Leroy Sané who is also a player who engages in many one on ones and likes to carry the ball across the pitch.
I know
Still, Wirtz and Musiala are better, IMO. Both are far better dribblers and Wirtz has an incredible football IQ going for him as well. Bellingham is indeed more athletic but athleticism isn't a means in itself. Don't get me wrong, he is absolutely amazing as well but just I don't think he's every bit as good as the other two who are legitly the two biggest talents I've seen in the Bundesliga. Germany is incredibly lucky to have both coming through at the same time.I know
Better than De Bruyne?
I think that would be an audacious claim considering their CVs. Wirtz is playing at an unreal level this season but he stil has a lot left to prove, obviously. Regarding ability alone, De Bruyne's delivery is unrivalled but Wirtz is a far better dribbler and loses possession less often. I'd say de Bruyne still applies his abilities better and thus has an insane output but Wirtz would definitely be a more than worthy successor and I believe when he retires, he'll be considered a better player than him.
I watched him vs West Ham yesterday.
I'd love a player like that at United.
I'd love a player like that at United.
Wirtz and Mainoo would be a fun midfield for the next decade
I'd build a team around him. Fantastic player.
I’d give my left nut to sign him. A double pivot of Mainoo and Neves with Wirtz in front is my dream line up for United. With Mount on the left. That team would dominate possession in 90% of games. People will say there’s no true DM and it’s not physical enough, but that’s bollocks. Physicality is grossly overrated when you have work rate and technique.
It’s 200m on midfield, but selling Bruno and Casemiro would cover 60% of it, and we’d have a midfield for a decade plus.
Neves and Wirtz will be two of the best midfielders in the world over the next decade, and both will move clubs in the next two years.
It’s 200m on midfield, but selling Bruno and Casemiro would cover 60% of it, and we’d have a midfield for a decade plus.
Neves and Wirtz will be two of the best midfielders in the world over the next decade, and both will move clubs in the next two years.
I really like Florian (even his name is cool and vintage), I miss all those extraordinary German dribblers like Littbarski, Hasller, etc.
He is more direct than those, less of a specialist or "obsessive" for lack of a better word, yet he combines it with great stamina, power, strike and passing ability. He is very young but he is such a great player already and such a great future ahead of him. Fantastic player, he has that presence and gravitas of sheer skill and power combination many old guard Krauts had.
PD1: Regarding that suposse lack of incisive passing, it's far from truth, yet it should be take in account that Leverkusen has so many polivalent players with great passing that many times they keep the ball a la City, while still keeping that German verticality.
In his team the progressive and risky passes can be done also by Xhaka, Palacios, and cia and many times he is in the receiving end, so they will be matches that he is not pulling many of those type of passes, but he is great at those.
PD2: I'll love him to be Argie, maybe try some old Graf Spee Grandpa on him and snatch him, some Mateo Klimowicz swap? I'm all for it
He is more direct than those, less of a specialist or "obsessive" for lack of a better word, yet he combines it with great stamina, power, strike and passing ability. He is very young but he is such a great player already and such a great future ahead of him. Fantastic player, he has that presence and gravitas of sheer skill and power combination many old guard Krauts had.
PD1: Regarding that suposse lack of incisive passing, it's far from truth, yet it should be take in account that Leverkusen has so many polivalent players with great passing that many times they keep the ball a la City, while still keeping that German verticality.
In his team the progressive and risky passes can be done also by Xhaka, Palacios, and cia and many times he is in the receiving end, so they will be matches that he is not pulling many of those type of passes, but he is great at those.
PD2: I'll love him to be Argie, maybe try some old Graf Spee Grandpa on him and snatch him, some Mateo Klimowicz swap? I'm all for it
What is this?
His close control is absolutely brilliant he just glides around the pitch with the ball glued to his feet. He is ridiculously talented but also has a bit of grit to his game.
D-day rerunWhat is this?
For someone whose passing is so good, I can't believe how patient he is....he is just too good.
Will be fun to see if England managers can get more out of Mainoo/Foden/Bellingham or German managers out of Wirtz/Musiala....my money would be on German pedigree
Will be fun to see if England managers can get more out of Mainoo/Foden/Bellingham or German managers out of Wirtz/Musiala....my money would be on German pedigree