Final: Italy vs England

England never beat an Elite Nation in knock outs

England never thrash a team in the Finals

England never win in the Semi’s

All I’ll say is:

Germany
Ukraine
Denmark

we’ve done it, we’ve made the Final
 
In what world is it a dive? There's contact from two separate defenders, you'd either have to be blind, stupid or apparently Irish to call it a dive.

Soft penalty, possibly, but it certainly isn't a dive.
 
England should go with a back 3. I think that's what they played against Germany?

Forces Italy's wide forwards to be honest and defend. They might get pinned back as their central midfielders just close down and move around the middle of the park.

3-4-1-2 with Mount being the counter-press bastard in the middle occupying Jorginho. Kane and Sterling should have some room in the channels, but England will need to have an extra runner for them whether its Mount into the box or Saka providing the width and support down the right.

Tough to call because Italy's strength has been their press and midfield, allowing their forwards to play with space. Knowing that, England will have to neutralize the press and midfield as best they can by using a system they are suited to; 3 CBs or using 2 CMs to sit off and just play it wide down the flanks where they have quality.

The key battle(s) will be England's right forward/winger versus Emerson, England's right back against Insigne, Kane and Sterling versus the backline of Italy....and Mancini v Southgate. How will they setup their team to give them the best opportunity to win.
 
Irwin99 said:
No Pirlo this time though or Mark Lawrenson confidently telling everyone that not a single Italian player would get in the England side (Pirlo, Buffon, De Rossi etc :lol: )
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Oh Lawro. England in 2012 was one of the worst squads taken to major tournament in 20 odd years.
 
I hope Sterling falls in the box after being clearly fowled by the player and there are two balls on the pitch and all the anti-English cry again on Sunday when the Football Comes Home.
 
Zoo said:
Well ok Sterling in this form will be a massive threat and Kane too. But overall it was very disappointing tactically from England and they were lucky tonight. The Italians and Mancini are on paper another level to Denmark.
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Kane will be handled with ease unless the flanks open up the CB's, or he plays as a deeper forward (away from the CB's), which they really don't like. But Sterling is a huge threat that I don't think the Italians have much of an answer for. If Southgate had the nerve to use both flanks properly (putting a proper wing-forward on the right from the start), I think Italy would have as much problems dealing with that as England will with them in midfield (which they'll tap dance through), so for me, it's a game with the potential to be very cagey indeed.

I really think England can certainly give Italy a proper game, in spite of their woeful midfield and Southgate. But Sakho has no business starting the final. Rashford left and Sterling right would keep the Italian's honest all game, but of course we won't be seeing Rashford, so forget I said that.
 
Giggs86 said:
Even with the home advantage, it's 70-30 in Italy's favor. England are a massive underdog here. Bonucci and Chiellini will pocket Kane and the Italian midfield will overrun Philips and Rice. England will need a miracle to win this final.
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One thing worth pointing out though. For all Denmark's strong spell in first half only goal England conceded in the tournament is a pretty good free kick. England are a very tough team to score against this tournament so reminds me of Portugal in last euros who were a brick wall in the knock outs.

They were probably bigger underdogs going into final v France and lost Ronaldo after 20 minutes yet still held on and found a way to win in the end so wouldn't shock me if England found a similar way even if I think Italy will just edge it.

Think Chiesa v Walker will be very interesting battle aswell given both are quick as anything.
 
Fortitude said:
Kane will be handled with ease unless the flanks open up the CB's, or he plays as a deeper forward (away from the CB's), which they really don't like. But Sterling is a huge threat that I don't think the Italians have much of an answer for. If Southgate had the nerve to use both flanks properly (putting a proper wing-forward on the right from the start), I think Italy would have as much problems dealing with that as England will with them in midfield (which they'll tap dance through), so for me, it's a game with the potential to be very cagey indeed.

I really think England can certainly give Italy a proper game, in spite of their woeful midfield and Southgate. But Sakho has no business starting the final. Rashford left and Sterling right would keep the Italian's honest all game, but of course we won't be seeing Rashford, so forget I said that.
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Rashford has been in dreadful form for months, it would be insanity to throw him into a final when you have Sancho available and playing well.

As for saying "Kane will be handled with ease", I'm sorry have you not seen Harry Kane play football? How often is he handled with ease?!
 
JB7 said:
In what world is it a dive? There's contact from two separate defenders, you'd either have to be blind, stupid or apparently Irish to call it a dive.

Soft penalty, possibly, but it certainly isn't a dive.
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I've only just seen the replays but having seen them, I'm a bit confused about the outrage. Soft decision but hardly a criminal mistake.

Still need to see the replay of the Kane penalty incident as they looked stonewall from where I was sat.
 
edcunited1878 said:
England should go with a back 3. I think that's what they played against Germany?

Forces Italy's wide forwards to be honest and defend. They might get pinned back as their central midfielders just close down and move around the middle of the park.

3-4-1-2 with Mount being the counter-press bastard in the middle occupying Jorginho. Kane and Sterling should have some room in the channels, but England will need to have an extra runner for them whether its Mount into the box or Saka providing the width and support down the right.

Tough to call because Italy's strength has been their press and midfield, allowing their forwards to play with space. Knowing that, England will have to neutralize the press and midfield as best they can by using a system they are suited to; 3 CBs or using 2 CMs to sit off and just play it wide down the flanks where they have quality.

The key battle(s) will be England's right forward/winger versus Emerson, England's right back against Insigne, Kane and Sterling versus the backline of Italy....and Mancini v Southgate. How will they setup their team to give them the best opportunity to win.
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That doesn't work though unless you have a midfield as good as Spain though, they can take the game away from you and throw you out of shape because Jorginho, Barella and Verratti so good in possession on the ball and the quickness they attack on the break which takes players out of position.

I was working as a tactical analyst at Dundalk during their Europa League run 2016 (Yes a shit Irish team which isn't the same as the quality on show) but for to play a back 3 you had to make sure your two centre midfielders were press-resistant and capable of moving the ball quickly and sharply into your attacking players before the opposition tried to narrow the formation in midfield. England don't have a Pedri or Dani Olmo who can break lines in midfield like Spain did
 
saivet said:
I've only just seen the replays but having seen them, I'm a bit confused about the outrage. Soft decision but hardly a criminal mistake.

Still need to see the replay of the Kane penalty incident as they looked stonewall from where I was sat.
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The issue there was Kane fouled the defender before he was fouled if that makes sense.
 
Wayne's World said:
That doesn't work though unless you have a midfield as good as Spain though, they can take the game away from you and throw you out of shape because Jorginho, Barella and Verratti so good in possession on the ball and the quickness they attack on the break which takes players out of position.

I was working as a tactical analyst at Dundalk during their Europa League run 2016 (Yes a shit Irish team which isn't the same as the quality on show) but for to play a back 3 you had to make sure your two centre midfielders were press-resistant and capable of moving the ball quickly and sharply into your attacking players before the opposition tried to narrow the formation in midfield. England don't have a Pedri or Dani Olmo who can break lines in midfield like Spain did
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Isn't that what wingbacks are for though? Maguire can carry the ball, as can Walker. Shaw is that extra man who can be the outlet out wide in midfield. Or just bypass their press from the back with Pickford booming it away and just restart play with your own press (triggered by Mount) up the pitch. Yes, you cede possession, but the ball is away from your goal and their press is irrelevant. When winning the ball in the midfield, look wide or back, then pass into the space behind the midfield.

You can bypass the press entirely and England has more than one CB who can carry the ball into midfield, but the spacing has to be correct and players have to be calm on the ball. Rice is the biggest player in central midfield and can us that to his advantage by giving himself that extra space and time before releasing the ball.

If United can fashion chances against City and their press with McTominay and Fred, I think England can do it against Italy. But they'll be playing with fire/with greater risk.

Either way, I expect Southgate to be very solid at the back and hard to breakdown, thus the 3 at the back. But their wingbacks are technically proficient in Shaw and whoever is the right wingback.
 
The penalty was very soft.I guess that's the small help to the host that we have see all the life. Nothing special although it is true that it is striking because it happened in extra time, with VAR, 2 balls, and to England, being the british fan so strict with divings.
I think England is too dependent on flashes.
I would say 55/45 for England but the players will have a lot of pressure and rush that should avoid.
I think they should "stabilize" the game in the first minutes and avoid early goals from Italy that would greatly increase anxiety
 
edcunited1878 said:
Isn't that what wingbacks are for though? Maguire can carry the ball, as can Walker. Shaw is that extra man who can be the outlet out wide in midfield. Or just bypass their press from the back with Pickford booming it away and just restart play with your own press (triggered by Mount) up the pitch. Yes, you cede possession, but the ball is away from your goal and their press is irrelevant. When winning the ball in the midfield, look wide or back, then pass into the space behind the midfield.

You can bypass the press entirely and England has more than one CB who can carry the ball into midfield, but the spacing has to be correct and players have to be calm on the ball. Rice is the biggest player in central midfield and can us that to his advantage by giving himself that extra space and time before releasing the ball.

If United can fashion chances against City and their press with McTominay and Fred, I think England can do it against Italy. But they'll be playing with fire/with greater risk.

Either way, I expect Southgate to be very solid at the back and hard to breakdown, thus the 3 at the back. But their wingbacks are technically proficient in Shaw and whoever is the right wingback.
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Ah you see Italian keep their forwards wide when defending but narrow when attacking, Chiesa and Insigne always seem to be either dropping deep or getting behind the defence but it was dependant on the opposition. You can of course drive one of your CB's out of position by moving forward but with Italy they want you to move out of position, they have areas in the pitch as in when we won the ball we move there, and when we lose the ball we collectively win the ball back in depending when the positions the ball is won. I'm sorry It's very hard to explain in a post though and not in person or by watching videos :lol: :lol:
 
Wayne's World said:
Ah you see Italian keep their forwards wide when defending but narrow when attacking, Chiesa and Insigne always seem to be either dropping deep or getting behind the defence but it was dependant on the opposition. You can of course drive one of your CB's out of position by moving forward but with Italy they want you to move out of position, they have areas in the pitch as in when we won the ball we move there, and when we lose the ball we collectively win the ball back in depending when the positions the ball is won. I'm sorry It's very hard to explain in a post though and not in person or by watching videos :lol: :lol:
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Well yes, if you're out of position, then the space is going to exploited if you have technically proficient players who can start the transition and players who attack the space from an onside position, but provide a good angle for the pass.

A combination of Belotti and Chisea would hound England. Immobile hasn't been as good as Insigne or Chiesa this tournament, but is always a goal threat.

So if Italy keep their forwards wide, then they occupy the wingbacks. There will be an extra central midfield player by default, but an extra CB to step up. So then Kane drops deep into midfield to balance out the midfield. The movement off the ball and control of it once the ball is received can break the press. Obviously the composure has to be there and one or two touch football will be important, but so will the spacing.

If England gets their spacing right and are in good positions off the ball, they can handle the Italian press. But they haven't really had to come up against this all tournament.

Shaw and Grealish can break a press, that's the left side I was talking about.
 
saivet said:
I've only just seen the replays but having seen them, I'm a bit confused about the outrage. Soft decision but hardly a criminal mistake.

Still need to see the replay of the Kane penalty incident as they looked stonewall from where I was sat.
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imo those two incidents evened themselves out. The Kane incident was a clear penalty because the "foul" before was simply not there.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Southgate does what he did against Germany and matches up formations with Italy, their midfield is class, probably the best in the tournament so I think he'll want 3 CM's in there with Henderson coming into the starting line-up. Kane and Sterling will obviously start and Southgate loves Mount so he'll probably start on the right but I'd start Sancho or Foden.


 
This could be the best final in years. Both teams are up for it, and have the players to win it. I’d say they are pretty much equal in defense, Italy is better in midfield while England is better in attack.

Key England players:
- Sterling, Kane, Grealish, Shaw, Maguire, Stones, Mount

Key Italian players:
- Veratti, Jorginho, Chiesa, Immobile, Chiellini, Bonnucci, Locatelli
 
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I want to see Veratti vs Grealish. Whoever comes on top will be crowned the best midfielder for this game.
 
I find it very interesting how England is considered the favourites according to the bookies.

Only by a slight margin, but still.
 
We win the match by relentlessly pressing Jorginho. Mount will get so many turnovers on him if he's played.
 
England play Philips and Rice for this and Italy will have an absolute field day. Goodness me they are so slow in thought, especially Philips who seems to take 2-3 touches for everything. But, Southgate will persist with them because they got there with them. Hate to say it but, Henderson has to start over one of those 2.

It's going to be tight and breaking Italy's press with quick thought and ability to move to the ball will allow for England to run at Chiellini and Bonuci. If they try to play it up to Kane, they will just eat him alive.
 
Shimo said:
England play Philips and Rice for this and Italy will have an absolute field day. Goodness me they are so slow in thought, especially Philips who seems to take 2-3 touches for everything. But, Southgate will persist with them because they got there with them. Hate to say it but, Henderson has to start over one of those 2.

It's going to be tight and breaking Italy's press with quick thought and ability to move to the ball will allow for England to run at Chiellini and Bonuci. If they try to play it up to Kane, they will just eat him alive.
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I would have to agree with this. For all the arguments on the wingers etc the biggest problem is this pairing and our right back. The game last night proves this. The paring in the middle are too one dimensional, lack creativity and constantly pass it side to side killing the momentum and slowing the game down too much.

I have no idea why Walker keeps playing, he is a liability to whoever plays ahead of him, doesn’t look forward when passing and always chooses the safer options by going sideways. Yawn.
 
Shimo said:
England play Philips and Rice for this and Italy will have an absolute field day. Goodness me they are so slow in thought, especially Philips who seems to take 2-3 touches for everything. But, Southgate will persist with them because they got there with them. Hate to say it but, Henderson has to start over one of those 2.

It's going to be tight and breaking Italy's press with quick thought and ability to move to the ball will allow for England to run at Chiellini and Bonuci. If they try to play it up to Kane, they will just eat him alive.
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I‘d have thought they were ideal to play against their midfield. Spain shut Italy down by pressing their midfield and if those two and Mount can do anything then it’s that. It’s what we did against a better possession midfield in Croatia. I think it will suit us to play a more reactive game.
 
JB7 said:
In what world is it a dive? There's contact from two separate defenders, you'd either have to be blind, stupid or apparently Irish to call it a dive.

Soft penalty, possibly, but it certainly isn't a dive.
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In what world does it mean a pile of dog shite whether it was a dive or not is the question I find myself asking. Football is football for better and for worse.
 
Infordin said:
I find it very interesting how England is considered the favourites according to the bookies.

Only by a slight margin, but still.
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Isn't it fairly normal for the home team to be favored slightly in an otherwise even match?
 
JB7 said:
Rashford has been in dreadful form for months, it would be insanity to throw him into a final when you have Sancho available and playing well.

As for saying "Kane will be handled with ease", I'm sorry have you not seen Harry Kane play football? How often is he handled with ease?!
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Southgate doesn't fancy Sancho for anything other than being a back up and he doesn't have the nerve to play the kind of football that would make Sancho a real threat. Rashford should have been getting minutes throughout the tournament - assuming he's just not being picked as opposed to being poor in training - and form prior to it is neither here nor there (see Sterling), but that doesn't matter as he's not going to be part of a conversation for the final, perhaps at all, even with extra time.

If England don't split and drag the Italian CB's and give Kane space to exploit, and he plays as a generic #9, Chiellini and Bonnuci will be all over him. I made it clear in my post that if he plays away from them as #9.5 or whatever you want to call it, that his chances of having an impact rise considerably as they don't like to track beyond a certain point and won't break their defensive shape to do so.

I think it's pretty clear there's joy to be had down their flanks and with making inroads from out to in on both sides of the pitch. Sterling's movement will be pivotal and even the catalyst for Kane's effectiveness as a #9. If Kane adopts the #9.5 role, it's a different story as he'll have space to work in off the back of his own movement and not that of others.

Chiesa and Insigne serve similar purpose for them, fortunately Immobile blunts their forward line.
 
Mount and Jorginho should know each other very well from training. There's no way Southgate doesn't have Mount on him all game even at the expense of contributing to the attack. Potentially decisive duel there.
 
Regardless of how they got there, I think it's safe to say that the two best teams are in the final. The way England play might attract some criticism but they've been getting the job done and still haven't conceded form open play.
Having said that, Italy should not have any problems disposing them in the final, they're the superior team. England are not very good with the ball, apart from patches of link up play mostly from Shaw, they offer very little threat, and Italy do not even attack from the right side.
Italy don't rely on crosses and aerial balls so Maguire might struggle a little. England are going to let Italy dominate the midfield because they don't have another option. If both team play to their potential, Italy should win like 3-1.
 
I’m a bit late to understanding this so can someone help me?

Why have England had alot of games at Wembley?

What was the reasoning behind that? I thought things were getting played at different stadiums. Seems a bit unfair on Germany and Denmark.
 
Bebestation said:
I’m a bit late to understanding this so can someone help me?

Why have England had alot of games at Wembley?

What was the reasoning behind that? I thought things were getting played at different stadiums. Seems a bit unfair on Germany and Denmark.
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Those games were always going to be at Wembley whether England were in them or not
 
The Mitcher said:
England went out to Maradona handballing it into the net way back, Beckham getting provoked by Simeone. I could go on. The one time England happens to get through by luck of a dive, people all start getting angry. It's hypocrisy. Let us not forget how Germany last beat England in 2011...
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I was frustrated to hell the times when England went out through bad decisions. But I'm trying not to be a hypocrite and see it's dodgy as feck. Not even a dive but the ref' s refusal to check it on var.
 
JB7 said:
Rashford has been in dreadful form for months, it would be insanity to throw him into a final when you have Sancho available and playing well.

As for saying "Kane will be handled with ease", I'm sorry have you not seen Harry Kane play football? How often is he handled with ease?!
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Croatia, Scotland, Czech Republic
 
An own goal and a cheat pen are not going to be enough in this one.
 
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