We'll see, I think Argentina will be playing for penalties on Sunday, and if they somehow pull it off, it could be the biggest stroke of genius ever, or if Germany wins the PKs again (like they've always done). People will question the sanity of the Argie manager to play for penalties against the Germans.
Final - Germany vs. Argentina
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
We'll see, I think Argentina will be playing for penalties on Sunday, and if they somehow pull it off, it could be the biggest stroke of genius ever, or if Germany wins the PKs again (like they've always done). People will question the sanity of the Argie manager to play for penalties against the Germans.
Has the Argentina manager said he is going to play for penalties?
Not sure this side is as good at penalties as the past teams were. Though the mentality of the Bayern players definitely changed since the loss against Chelsea in 2012, especially Schweinsteiger looks like a different beast now. He was the one suffering the most from the pressure of the CL final at home back then. Lahm, Gomez and Neuer!!! scored the first 3 penalties and only Olic missing the fourth changed the score in favour of Chelsea 
. Hard to say, if they're capable of a perfect penalty shoot-out, I'd rather see the game won or lost in the 90 or 120 minutes playing time.
We also lost the Euro final in '76, the only final we played in that was decided through penatlies. So we're not invincible.
. Hard to say, if they're capable of a perfect penalty shoot-out, I'd rather see the game won or lost in the 90 or 120 minutes playing time.We also lost the Euro final in '76, the only final we played in that was decided through penatlies. So we're not invincible.
Based on their game plan so far in the knockout stage, I think it's pretty clear they'd be parking the plane in the final.
If they try to open up, they'd just get massacred like Brazil were.
Incidently, let me just point out that not only have Germany won every WC shootout ever, they have only ever missed one penalty in all those shootouts combined, 32 years ago by some guy called Stielike, since then it's a 100% record.
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Funny how everyone expected Argentina to leak goals only for Aguero, Messi, Di Maria and Lavezzi to carry them through with offensive power and as it stands it's their defence that pushed them through knockouts as they've only scored 2 goals, both of them without really playing well and working well to get them.
That's what he probably meant with "having a tendency for bottling it in important games":
2002: WM (final) Germany-Brazil 0:2
2006: WM (semifinal) Germany-Italy 0:2
2008: EM (final) Germany-Spain 0:1
2010: WM (semifinal) Germany-Spain 0:1
2012: EM (semifinal) Germany-Italy 1:2
You will have to admit, that's quite a bit of a "losing decisive games lately" record, especially for a German team! Also in light of the fact, that (probably with the exception of 2010) Germany was always seen as the slight favourite by most ahead of the game....
Brazil were clear favourites against a Ballack-less Germany in 2002
Italy's record against Germany is just incredible.
Those 2 games against Spain were both Spain favourites as well.
So this apparent bottling big games just means they continually lose to Italy.
The term 'bottling it' is so ridiculously overused on the Caf. Constantly being in the latter stages of a tournament and going out against the eventual winners is a great achievement in itself and not everyone but the winner bottled it in a tournament. Losing games is part of the game, especially in international tournaments.
It would be fun to see Messi have a stormer and win the world cup in Brazil but I'd prefer Germany to win it. European and a Chelsea player.
Off the top of my head I don't think we've ever had an Argentine player.
Off the top of my head I don't think we've ever had an Argentine player.
I think the fact that Germany gets eliminated often late on in the tournament so they are given the label of being "chokers."
It would actually be quite funny to see how the media will try to spin it as Messi's WC if he gets sent off early on and Argentina go on to win.
Be honest, if Messi plays really well, scores a hatrick and lifts the world cup, how pissed off will you be?
Not nearly as upset as "Agueerrrroooo... ", but maybe as pissed off as "It's a disgrace... it's a fecking disgrace..."
That's about as pissed off as I've ever been as a football fan!
How could I forget! And Crespo, and Di Santo. I'm not awake yet.
I can totally understand, you were robbed by the worst refereeing performance ever in that level of the game.
The fact he consistently bottled all those penalty decisions makes it even worse than the one moment of madness in sending Nani of by Cuntface.
I would say in 2002 it was about 50-50, when they went into the final (though honestly, in Switzerland it felt quite different at that time, while switching through the German TV channels.....
), but I tend to disagree when it comes to 2008: Spain had nothing won yet at that time, they were probably a secret favourite, but most folks expected the Germans to win that one, most definitely here in the German speaking part of Europe....@Dino-Canarias: Are you fecking kidding me? 2002? Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Cafu, Lucio etc. etc. against Carsten Ramelow, Didi Hamann, Jens Jeremies, Marco Bode, Torsten Frings as RB and Ballack suspended? You've got to be kidding, they haven't been anything near favourites. We had a look at the line-up prior to the semis, we laughed our asses off because so many of these players are legends based on their shitness. Without Kahn and Ballack, they would have gone out in R16.
2006 Italy had clearly superior players.
2008 the german team wasn't as bad, something started to change, but still: Piotr Trochowski and Clemens Fritz playing a final alongside Simon Rolfes.
People tend to get carried away, thinking the german youth development already started in like, 2006. It really didn't, this generation haa "only" produced Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Mertesacker and Podolski. Nothing beside this 4.
You've got to be kidding, they haven't been anything near favourites. We had a look at the line-up prior to the semis, we laughed our asses off because so many of these players are legends based on their shitness. Without Kahn and Ballack, they would have gone out in R16.2006 Italy had clearly superior players.
2008 the german team wasn't as bad, something started to change, but still: Piotr Trochowski and Clemens Fritz playing a final alongside Simon Rolfes.
People tend to get carried away, thinking the german youth development already started in like, 2006. It really didn't, this generation haa "only" produced Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Mertesacker and Podolski. Nothing beside this 4.
Of course the term is overused, but it's still a matter of fact, that Germany lost now 5 absolutely decisive games in a row, when it comes to the national team stage and people around the world are not used to that at all....that's definitely not the Germany, we grew up with! Doesn't take anything away from being a great achievement to get that far so often, but it's still a (psychological) problem, Jogi Löw and his team will have to deal with on Sunday!
Otherwise they might sooner or later catch the "Benfica Lissabon" (final loser) syndrom, and believe me, that's definitely no fun....
Maybe you're correct, when it comes to the (rather bland) German team sheet in 2002, but don't forget, on the sideline they had a certain Ruuuuuuuuuuuuudi Völler, whose cult status made up for more than that....@Dino-Canarias: Are you fecking kidding me? 2002? Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Cafu, Lucio etc. etc. against Carsten Ramelow, Didi Hamann, Jens Jeremies, Marco Bode, Torsten Frings as RB and Ballack suspended?
2006 Italy had clearly superior players.
2008 the german team wasn't as bad, something started to change, but still: Piotr Trochowski and Clemens Fritz playing a final alongside Simon Rolfes.
People tend to get carried away, thinking the german youth development already started in like, 2006. It really didn't, this generation haa "only" produced Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Mertesacker and Podolski. Nothing beside this 4.
You have no idea what you're talking about if you think Germany struggled against USA and France. And Argentina didn't struggle against Bosnia, Iran, Switzerland and Holland? They beat Nigeria convincingly but still conceded 2 goals and Belgium simply gave them too much respect. Germany is a superior team to Argentina and comparing all their results, it's fair to say that Germany will beat Argentina comfortably.
It's a fact that people like you choose to call only the games we lost decisive games and ignore games against top football nations inbetween like the win against Argentina in '06, Portugal in '08, England and Argentina in '10, finishing the group of death 1st with 3 wins in 2012 and now beating Portugal, France and Brazil in this tournament. Saying we lost now 5 decisive games in a row is nothing but nonsense, because all it means is that we haven't won one of the last 5 tournaments while at least 3 of those tournaments still fall into a time where we had the worst German generation of players since the war.Of course the term is overused, but it's still a matter of fact, that Germany lost now 5 absolutely decisive games in a row, when it comes to the national team stage and people around the world are not used to that at all....that's definitely not the Germany, we grew up with! Doesn't take anything away from being a great achievement to get that far so often, but it's still a (psychological) problem, Jogi Löw and his team will have to deal with on Sunday!
Otherwise they might sooner or later catch the "Benfica Lissabon" (final loser) syndrom, and believe me, that's definitely no fun....
England pretty much lost all decisive games against top nations in a row for quite a while, that's why they haven't made a semifinal with their golden generation. But you don't make it regularly to the semi finals and finals of international tournaments without winning important decisive games.
On most of these occasions you were pretty close an barring 2012 lost to a side that was clearly stronger than you on paper too. Shouldn't have lost to Italy in Warsaw though but that was Balotelli's game.
If it goes to a penalty shootout, I fancy the Germans to win it but I don't think it will be such a big shock if Argentina wins it.
After all, don't Argentina has the best record in penalties?
I know Germany seems to have an invincible record in penalties but I think it's largely due to the exaggeration by the English media. Why doesn't anyone mention how Argentina and Brazil are so good in penalties too?
What data is this based on? Germany has won 5 out of 6 penalty shootouts at international tournaments, 4 out of 4 at the World Cup. We've scored 17 out of 18 penalties during the World Cup shootouts and 9 out of 10 during the Euro shootouts.If it goes to a penalty shootout, I fancy the Germans to win it but I don't think it will be such a big shock if Argentina wins it.
After all, don't Argentina has the best record in penalties?
I know Germany seems to have an invincible record in penalties but I think it's largely due to the exaggeration by the English media. Why doesn't anyone mention how Argentina and Brazil are so good in penalties too?
I agree that Argentina also has a very good record. If I remember correctly both nations had won 3 and lost none at World Cups when it went to penaties in 2006. Now Germany is 4-0 and Argentina 4-1.
I got this from here: http://www.penaltyshootouts.co.uk/countries.html
Apparantely Argentina has a slightly better record than Germany.
Oh yeah, I think we lost a penalty shoot-out at the olympics in the 80's against Brazil. Didn't know anyone really cared about these games in football.
Look, it's all well and nice to win games against big nations in the group or knock out stage of a tournament. We Swiss have beaten Spain 4 years ago in the group stage of the world cup, we have recently beaten Brazil and Croatia in friendlies, we have even beaten up you guys in a friendly 2 years ago....but what really counts for the top nations of football is to win the decisive games (semifinal/final) of the big tournemants. And in that regard Germany has definitely shown some unusual weaknesses over the past decade and is actually, especially if the final next Sunday will be lost again, on the brink of becoming a ("big games") loser image. Sorry, but that is not even disputed in Germany nowadays.....
But you know what, you guys have played such great football during that period of time, that we (Swiss and Austrian) neighbours like you much more now than we ever did before....playing entertaining and attractive football and losing the finals, that's actually the perfect combination for us!
And by the way, 2006 still "worst German generation since the war" with names like Lehmann, Lahm, Metzelder, Mertesacker, Schweinsteiger, Ballack, Klose and Podolski on the team sheet against Italy...??
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Anyone remember the Germany thread before the tournament started, with these guys just moaning about Lowe and the line ups etc.
And look where they are now! Brilliant
It would be a travesty if they didn't win this tournament, its been a long time coming with this generation, and Argentina frankly haven't been good (bar maybe against Nigeria and even in that game they conceded two). Though I just have a feeling that Messi WILL turn up this time and do something special, and his name will go down with the likes of maradona and pele (even though I controversially feel he hasnt been that great this tournament).
All in all I'm looking forward to a great game, a great final and a good end to what has been the best world cup I've had the pleasure of viewing in my lifetime.
Shame I have an effin exam monday morning
And look where they are now! Brilliant
It would be a travesty if they didn't win this tournament, its been a long time coming with this generation, and Argentina frankly haven't been good (bar maybe against Nigeria and even in that game they conceded two). Though I just have a feeling that Messi WILL turn up this time and do something special, and his name will go down with the likes of maradona and pele (even though I controversially feel he hasnt been that great this tournament).
All in all I'm looking forward to a great game, a great final and a good end to what has been the best world cup I've had the pleasure of viewing in my lifetime.
Shame I have an effin exam monday morning
Yeah, a side beating Brazil 7-1 at their own home in a world cup semi-final is definitely on the brink of getting a big-game loser image.Look, it's all well and nice to win games against big nations in the group or knock out stage of a tournament. We Swiss have beaten Spain 4 years ago in the group stage of the world cup, we have recently beaten Brazil and Croatia in friendlies, we have even beaten up you guys in a friendly 2 years ago....but what really counts for the top nations of football is to win the decisive games (semifinal/final) of the big tournemants. And in that regard Germany has definitely shown some unusual weaknesses over the past decade and is actually, especially if the final next Sunday will be lost again, on the brink of becoming a ("big games") loser image. Sorry, but that is not even disputed in Germany nowadays.....
But you know what, you guys have played such great football during that period of time, that we (Swiss and Austrian) neighbours like you much more now than we ever did before....playing entertaining and attractive football and losing the finals, that's actually the perfect combination for us!
Well, yeah the majority of German internet football fans are the worst idiots around, so it's not surprising that most of them believe this loser image nonsense. There's a reason why I don't visit any German football forum anymore. Spoilt bunch that don't even understand their own history in the game.Look, it's all well and nice to win games against big nations in the group or knock out stage of a tournament. We Swiss have beaten Spain 4 years ago in the group stage of the world cup, we have recently beaten Brazil and Croatia in friendlies, we have even beaten up you guys in a friendly 2 years ago....but what really counts for the top nations of football is to win the decisive games (semifinal/final) of the big tournemants. And in that regard Germany has definitely shown some unusual weaknesses over the past decade and is actually, especially if the final next Sunday will be lost again, on the brink of becoming a ("big games") loser image. Sorry, but that is not even disputed in Germany nowadays.....
But you know what, you guys have played such great football during that period of time, that we (Swiss and Austrian) neighbours like you much more now than we ever did before....playing entertaining and attractive football and losing the finals, that's actually the perfect combination for us!
And by the way, 2006 still "worst German generation since the war" with names like Lehmann, Lahm, Metzelder, Mertesacker, Schweinsteiger, Ballack, Klose and Podolski on the team sheet against Italy...??
And yes, with the exception of Lahm and Ballack none of the players in that list were anywhere near worldclass players and even Lahm and Ballack had their peak in different positions than they played in 2006, so I'd say from 2000 - 2008 (you could actually argue up until 2010) was the weakest decade in terms of player quality since the war. The 50's were stronger and are individually underrated despite the success in '54, the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's were miles ahead, as is this generation.
Oh and saying we lost 5 decisive games in a row because only semifinals and finals count 2 days after we beat Brazil in a World Cup semifinal at their homeground sounds a bit contradictory, don't you think?
Also, we won't do you the favour of losing the final, sorry mate
.You know what, it's all a matter of perception, for some folks a semifinal is already a big game, for some others, the real big game is the final of a tournament.
Okay, for God's sake, FINALLY WIN THIS THING ON SUNDAY, and we can end this discussion once and for all.....
There's a huge difference between a WC shoot out compared to Copa America shoutouts. Like Balu pointed out, Germany have. 17/18 conversion rate in WCs and won 4 out of 4.If it goes to a penalty shootout, I fancy the Germans to win it but I don't think it will be such a big shock if Argentina wins it.
After all, don't Argentina has the best record in penalties?
I know Germany seems to have an invincible record in penalties but I think it's largely due to the exaggeration by the English media. Why doesn't anyone mention how Argentina and Brazil are so good in penalties too?
No, a world cup semi-final is a huge game no matter where you're from.You know what, it's all a matter of perception, for some folks a semifinal is already a big game, for some others, the real big game is the final of a tournament.
Okay, for God's sake, FINALLY WIN THIS THING ON SUNDAY, and we can end this discussion once and for all.....
didnt crespo and veron play for chelsea?
Well, yeah the majority of German internet football fans are the worst idiots around, so it's not surprising that most of them believe this loser image nonsense. There's a reason why I don't visit any German football forum anymore. Spoilt bunch that don't even understand their own history in the game.
And yes, with the exception of Lahm and Ballack none of the players in that list were anywhere near worldclass players and even Lahm and Ballack had their peak in different positions than they played in 2006, so I'd say from 2000 - 2008 (you could actually argue up until 2010) was the weakest decade in terms of player quality since the war. The 50's were stronger and are individually underrated despite the success in '54, the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's were miles ahead, as is this generation.
Oh and saying we lost 5 decisive games in a row because only semifinals and finals count 2 days after we beat Brazil in a World Cup semifinal at their homeground sounds a bit contradictory, don't you think?
Also, we won't do you the favour of losing the final, sorry mate
Big names don't automatically mean great football.....actually, I would argue, that you played much better football between 2002 (okay, leave aside 2004) and 2010 than between 1980 and 1990, when you had a very succesful period.
Again, don't get me wrong, I don't want you to change at all, it's much more fun to watch games with Germany nowadays than it was by then.....and I have absolutely no issues with you guys taking that one on Sunday, would be well deserved! Just not two in a row please, that would definitely be too much to digest for us poor (and inferiority complex riddled) neighbours.....
i think germany will trash us
but fans are stupid and if you lose against argentina next sunday, beating 7-1 brazil in the semis will be bigger excuse to call germany "bottlers", they will say, yes, you scored 7 against brazil, but when things really matters you couldnt beat a weaker argentina
i wish we -the argies- were as bottlers as you are, instead of losing quarterfinals or leaving the wc in the group stages we would have had a lot of experience players that already played this kind of important games
a final game needs people with character and that comes with playing those kind of games
so i think that also in that department you have an edge
my prediction is that you beat us for at least 2 goals difference
You talk to me as if I'm German. Unfortunately, my team already lost to Argentina.