Final - Germany vs. Argentina

For everyone who said Schweinsteiger, Kroos, and Khedira can't possibly contain Messi because none of them are a De Jong type player:

In 2010 Germany played with Schweinsteiger and Khedira in the middle with Özil ahead of them. Argentina didn't have a single big chance all game.
I'm not at all trying to say Germany are definitely gonna win, I think it's 50-50 and could go either way. This is just a response to those who think Germany can't possibly contain Messi.

The only difference to 2010 is that Germany is playing a lot more offensive than back then. That might come in handy for Argentina if Löw fails to adjust the tactics. It's more a matter of the tactics leaving the German defence exposed than Schweinsteiger and Khedira not being capable.
 
Difference is, Argentina were terrible back then, were lucky to even qualify for the tournament. Maradona was a great player, but most certainly not a great manager.
 
Okocha119 said:
To be fair, back in 2010 I considered Marin to be a better performer than Müller and I wasn't alone with that oppinion. A lot of people wanted him to start instead of Podolski. As it turns out, Löw made the right choice there, but back then Marin had already proven himself over several seasons and was a more accomplished player than the likes of Müller, who by this point only had a couple of months of professional football in his resume. Don't let his current standing fool you, Marin used to be a huge talent.
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My opinion about him is pretty consistent since 2007. I was delighted when he was kicked out of the Euro squad in 2008 and by 2010 it was already obvious that he's technically gifted but lacks a single brain cell. Didn't expect him to become as bad as he is now though.
 
Balu said:
My opinion about him is pretty consistent since 2007. I was delighted when he was kicked out of the Euro squad in 2008 and by 2010 it was already obvious that he's technically gifted but lacks a single brain cell. Didn't expect him to become as bad as he is now though.
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I swear I remember reading in 2012 when Chelsea signed him that he was the "German messi". When I hear that tag being given to a player these days I almost always automatically assume that they will flop or are overrated as most players with that tag seem to do. It is such a lazy comparison to call every young player that is good and that can dribble "messi". Was he ever rated that highly in Germany or was that just the English press going into overdrive like always?
 
Raul Madrid said:
I swear I remember reading in 2012 when Chelsea signed him that he was the "German messi". When I hear that tag being given to a player these days I almost always automatically assume that they will flop or are overrated as most players with that tag seem to do. It is such a lazy comparison to call every young player that is good and that can dribble "messi". Was he ever rated that highly in Germany or was that just the English press going into overdrive like always?
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The Messi comparisons started long before the English press had even heard of him.

This vid is from 5 years ago.

 
Balu said:
My opinion about him is pretty consistent since 2007. I was delighted when he was kicked out of the Euro squad in 2008 and by 2010 it was already obvious that he's technically gifted but lacks a single brain cell. Didn't expect him to become as bad as he is now though.
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No matter what you think of his intelligence, which is an odd thing to comment on, considering the team has Podolski in it (:D ;)), he did just come off two great seasons, assisting 27 goals in total. Taking into account that Müller hardly had the standing in the team that he has now, I definitely wouldn't call this decision ridiculous. We needed a goal and Marin always used to be good for creating one.
 
Raul Madrid said:
I swear I remember reading in 2012 when Chelsea signed him that he was the "German messi". When I hear that tag being given to a player these days I almost always automatically assume that they will flop or are overrated as most players with that tag seem to do. It is such a lazy comparison to call every young player that is good and that can dribble "messi". Was he ever rated that highly in Germany or was that just the English press going into overdrive like always?
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He was never the German Messi in Germany. He's small and likes to dribble (he's not even that bad at it, he's just plain stupid and always makes the wrong decision when to pass, stop, turn, shoot), oh and his name has 5 letters and starts with M. There's a good chance that was enough for the English press to hype him :lol:.

/edit:
well, maybe a youtoube highlight video started the Messi comparison, that's also possible and shows how useless those videos are.
 
Balu said:
He was never the German Messi in Germany. He's small and likes to dribble (he's not even that bad at it, he's just plain stupid and always makes the wrong decision when to pass, stop, turn, shoot), oh and his name has 5 letters and starts with M. There's a good chance that was enough for the English press to hype him :lol:.
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When we signed him there was no hype at all in the English press. It was more like "Chelsea have signed some random German on the cheap that they used to call the German Messi".
 
Okocha119 said:
No matter what you think of his intelligence, which is an odd thing to comment on, considering the team has Podolski in it (:D ;)), he did just come off two great seasons, assisting 27 goals in total. Taking into account that Müller hardly had the standing in the team that he has now, I definitely wouldn't call this decision ridiculous. We needed a goal and Marin always used to be good for creating one.
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Podolski is a brainiac in comparison to Marin, at least Podolski knows what he can't do. Fairly limited in his game, but still useful and not a detriment to the team.

duffer said:
When we signed him there was no hype at all in the English press. It was more like "Chelsea have signed some random German on the cheap that they used to call the German Messi".
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Yeah, when you guys signed him the hype was already gone. It was one of the weirdest transfers ever, really. Totally stupid from club and player, no one in Germany understood it, because it was obvious that he would fail. I'm not sure who came up with the 'German Messi' thing, but I read it more in English football boards than in German ones and I'm pretty sure many users on the Caf rated him very very highly ahead of the World Cup.
 
Balu said:
He was never the German Messi in Germany. He's small and likes to dribble (he's not even that bad at it, he's just plain stupid and always makes the wrong decision when to pass, stop, turn, shoot), oh and his name has 5 letters and starts with M. There's a good chance that was enough for the English press to hype him :lol:.

/edit:
well, maybe a youtoube highlight video started the Messi comparison, that's also possible and shows how useless those videos are.
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Thanks, I was just wondering. As for the bolded sounds very much like diego capel who used to play for sevilla. Dangerous on his day, but frustrating in general and not good enough or consistent enough for a top club.
 
Balu said:
Podolski is a brainiac in comparison to Marin, at least Podolski knows what he can't do. Fairly limited in his game, but still useful and not a detriment to the team.
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Has Marin done something to you personally? Seriously, I get it that you don't rate him, but this is too much. Calling someone you never met dumb is not a very intelligent judgement in itself. And calling Marin a detriment to is team goes way over the line, at least four years ago. He carried Gladbach much like Reus did back in his days there and when he moved to Bremen he and Özil managed to take the team to new heights. It's no wonder that otherwise mediocre team managed to finish third that season. He was a key player for them back then.

Balu said:
Yeah, when you guys signed him the hype was already gone. It was one of the weirdest transfers ever, really. Totally stupid from club and player, no one in Germany understood it, because it was obvious that he would fail. I'm not sure who came up with the 'German Messi' thing, but I read it more in English football boards than in German ones and I'm pretty sure many users on the Caf rated him very very highly ahead of the World Cup.
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While I agree with you that the transfer didn't make much sense at the time, the Messi comparisons weren't completely unwaranted. He was a quick, short winger with impressive skills that showed a lot potential. He was a type of player that Germany didn't have at the time. While he was never the kind of player Messi was/is, the comparisons kind of made sense since he was the closest thing to Messi we had. Well, then Götze emerged and kind of stole his hype. In 2012 when Mario Götze was the Golden Boy, nobody really cared about Marin anymore.
And comparing Reus to Messi is completely ludacrous by the way. Maybe Meyer is the next German Messi, nobody knows.

What was the topic of this thread again? :D
 
Okocha119 said:
Has Marin done something to you personally? Seriously, I get it that you don't rate him, but this is too much. Calling someone you never met dumb is not a very intelligent judgement in itself.
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I'm solely talking about his decision making on the pitch and nothing else, not sure how that's offensive towards him personally. He can be the smartest person in the world off the pitch for all I care, but he never was on the pitch. It took the defenders a bit to adjust to his skillset in the league, but he became irrelevant soon enough. Also I think you take my comments about Marin slightly too serious :lol:.
 
I'm having a hard time to be over-optimistic for my Germans. It happened to often that the favorite stumbled with the last step. Although, player by player we should have a good advantage. I guess we wouldn't display more than three of these Argentinians on our team.

On the other hand, as long as Demichelis is playing I feel very confident. He is so slow that will open us a heck of opportunities. The other big opportunity should be Mascherano: For the limited player he is, he is running way too often attacks with the ball on his foot. A couple of times our midfield should be able to pick the ball off him, and then they will be wide open. Messi is a mile away from his best shape, he doesn't scare me too much. I just hope I'm right.
 
Di María started in training tonight for Argentina in place of Enzo Pérez. Still a huge doubt of course but good progress is being made it seems, hopefully he's fit enough to start.

Edit: Guess you can scrap this post, seems he's been ruled out now after struggling through training.
 
Sorry for the injury to him, but good for us. Makes up a bit for us missing Reus and Guendogan.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Di María started in training tonight for Argentina in place of Enzo Pérez. Still a huge doubt of course but good progress is being made it seems, hopefully he's fit enough to start.

Edit: Guess you can scrap this post, seems he's been ruled out now after struggling through training.
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That will hurt Argentina. I really rate Di Maria. Very good close control and a good turn of speed. Very intelligent player who rarely wastes a ball. I hope we sign him as I reckon he'd be brilliant for United.
 
steve9 said:
I'm having a hard time to be over-optimistic for my Germans. It happened to often that the favorite stumbled with the last step. Although, player by player we should have a good advantage. I guess we wouldn't display more than three of these Argentinians on our team.

On the other hand, as long as Demichelis is playing I feel very confident. He is so slow that will open us a heck of opportunities. The other big opportunity should be Mascherano: For the limited player he is, he is running way too often attacks with the ball on his foot. A couple of times our midfield should be able to pick the ball off him, and then they will be wide open. Messi is a mile away from his best shape, he doesn't scare me too much. I just hope I'm right.
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He won't get much change out of Kroos and Khedira. This match is made for Kroos to shine. The big "if" for me is Ozil. He's really got to turn it on in this game and so far, he's been a bit of a passenger. He just seems to be lackadaisical which is a very un-German trait. He's not the player he was in 2010 that's for sure. I heard that Breitner said publicly that Ozil should be dropped and that certain sections of the German press have echoed this. Did you see Schweinsteiger's reaction when Ozil fluffed that one-on-one with Cesar in the semi? He went ballistic and so did Neuer after Brazil scored straight afterwards. Pretty telling, I thought.
 
The goal machine has been unlocked. Can't turn it off now.

Germany 3-0
 
Moriarty said:
He won't get much change out of Kroos and Khedira. This match is made for Kroos to shine. The big "if" for me is Ozil. He's really got to turn it on in this game and so far, he's been a bit of a passenger. He just seems to be lackadaisical which is a very un-German trait. He's not the player he was in 2010 that's for sure. I heard that Breitner said publicly that Ozil should be dropped and that certain sections of the German press have echoed this. Did you see Schweinsteiger's reaction when Ozil fluffed that one-on-one with Cesar in the semi? He went ballistic and so did Neuer after Brazil scored straight afterwards. Pretty telling, I thought.
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Oezil is still not defending at all. Which is the main reason why Loew has to play Hoewedes at the left. Hoewedes is pure defense, but that's what you need if there is no help from the man in front of him. But even counting this in, what bothers me most is how often he is losing the ball in this tournament. He is winning almost no one-on-one with a dribble.
 
I've put 10 euros on Argentina to win the whole thing before the start. It would win me 70, but i really can't see past Germany.
 
Cesar Luis Menotti was on German TV the other day and called Manuel Neuer the best goalkeeper OF ALL TIME. Bit of a hyperbole, right? ^^

Always weird to hear him say positive things about the German team..he used to be one of its ciggest critics.
 
If it gets to 75 mins at 0-0, expect Messi to score in the dying minutes
 
uamini said:
Cesar Luis Menotti was on German TV the other day and called Manuel Neuer the best goalkeeper OF ALL TIME. Bit of a hyperbole, right? ^^

Always weird to hear him say positive things about the German team..he used to be one of its ciggest critics.
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He is only 28 years old yet.
As goalkeeper he can play at least 7 more years, and one of the most important things as goalkeeper is experience. He could be one of the best (in my opinion he is already)
Jens Lehmann also said he could become the best German Keeper of all time.
 
Is this the final day where us "newbies" can mix with you "full members" :(
 
Beckham has spoken: Germany have.not a single star and talented Players

Where Argentenia has Messi and energy and talented players.
 
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I'm both looking forward to this and dreading the time it ends. This has been a fine World Cup. Then there's the fact that the next two are at Russia and Qatar. :mad:
 
Such a shame Aguero, higuain and di Maria have either been injured or not fully fit. Has clearly hampered them and put even more attacking responsibility on messi.

Today's game will be interesting. The build up reminds of their match in 2006. Argentina were the favourites and playing well, Germany wasn't fancied but they showed great mental strength and eventually won on penalties.

Now their roles are reversed with Germany heavy favourites.
 
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