Fellaini

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Hellboy said:
Don't understand the stuff about freeing up Carrick, he's excellent where he is, utter nonsense.
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He wouldn't necessarily become any less excellent if he was "freed up" to an extent. The latter obviously doesn't mean that he'll start operating as a free roaming AM, just - potentially - that he can use his passing skills in a more creative way, not unlike the player he was when he first arrived from Spurs. A more defensively sound player (more so than Cleverley and Anderson, which doesn't take much) would take some of the pure screening duties off Carrick. I don't see that as a bad thing at all.

Not least because such a player could go in and substitute for Carrick when we need to rest him.
 
Fellaini may not be the single piece to "fix" our CM but, getting him would strengthen us. Whether it's 15m or 24m matters little when it's been a position we've not invested really in several years. Even Fabregas on his own wouldn't necessarily make us compete in the middle against the top teams.

Sure if it was only going to be 1 of the 2, Fabregas would improve us more but, we need more than just 1 of them. It would be a shame just to get just Fellaini but, I certainly would be happy with at the least getting him in.
 
Shimo said:
Fellaini may not be the single piece to "fix" our CM but, getting him would strengthen us. Whether it's 15m or 24m matters little when it's been a position we've not invested really in several years. Even Fabregas on his own wouldn't necessarily make us compete in the middle against the top teams.

Sure if it was only going to be 1 of the 2, Fabregas would improve us more but, we need more than just 1 of them. It would be a shame just to get just Fellaini but, I certainly would be happy with at the least getting him in.
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Agreed. What we need in order to dramatically strengthen our options in the middle of the park is sheer quality - that one is simple enough. We're up against the likes of Bayern, who at present sport a ridiculous set of players in this area: We won't catch them in one fell swoop no matter who we get in this window (leaving completely unrealistic targets out of it). So, yeah, Fabregas fits the quality bill. He does not fit the other bill, though, which is the "cover for Carrick" one.

Fellaini offers two things: A possible upgrade on the "partner for Carrick" position (he would at the very least provide an alternative to our present options) and a definite improvement in the "cover for Carrick" department. This is why I think he's a fair option. If we only manage to land one midfielder this window, we should - I'd even say we must - go for a player who fits the second bill. That's more important than one who fits the first - at this moment in time. And Fellaini actually fits both bills - more or less. Give me another player who does and I'll gladly take him. But who? Fellaini is PL proven, knows Moyes, represents a low risk in terms of how he'd fit in, etc. These factors must also be considered.
 
With each passing moment my desire for us to sign Fellaini keeps growing stronger.
 
Found a very interesting piece on United & Fellaini on Sky. Don't know if it's been shared on the caf.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/15115/8848100/double-standards

Double standards?

Had Sir Alex Ferguson signed the giant Belgian last summer, it would have been considered a long-awaited coup. So why is David Moyes being judged on other criteria? Sarah Winterburn gives her view on possible transfer plans at Old Trafford...

By Sarah Winterburn. Last Updated: July 31, 2013 9:25am


If Sir Alex Ferguson had suddenly got sight in his blind spot last summer and brought in Marouane Fellaini, there would have been wild rejoicing on the streets of Manchester (insert your own joke here). Six years after buying the increasingly unqualified success that is Michael Carrick and five years after getting his fingers burned with Owen Hargreaves, Ferguson would have basked in baking-hot praise for finally bringing physicality, energy, height, experience and goal threat to United's central midfield. Especially if he had made his move after Fellaini had beasted Tom Cleverley in the opening game of the season.

A year on and there's a sniffiness about the same player possibly joining David Moyes' United, despite that player easily outscoring any of United's midfielders in the Premier League last season. Yes, he played in a more advanced role for Everton, but the fact that he also out-tackled any of United's midfielders suggests that he was not simply standing behind Nikica Jelavic waiting to get his big fluffy head on Leighton Baines' diagonal balls.

Fellaini is on a very short list of central midfielders in the Premier League who a) are realistically available to United and b) would significantly improve them. We would argue that list is just three or four names long: Fellaini, Tottenham's Sandro/Mousa Dembele and Newcastle's Yohan Cabaye. The Spurs pair would cost £40m each with added Levy tax while Cabaye's 2012/13 season could be filed under 'underwhelming'. There are no such caveats for Fellaini, who is available for a reported £23.5m, even after a phenomenal season which he finished as the Toffees' top scorer.

The transfer of a combative, goalscoring midfielder for a reasonable price sounds like a no-brainer and yet there has been collective sighing and tutting from United fans who see any potential move for the Belgian as a cop-out from Moyes. After failing with moves for Thiago and Cesc Fabregas, the Scot will have merely done what we all suspected all along - gone back to his old club and bought their best player. Too easy. Too obvious. Presumably the sighing and tutting fans think Moyes should ignore the best available central midfielder outside the Premier League's top five on the grounds that he was the manager who made him the best available central midfielder outside the Premier League's top five.

At 25, Fellaini is the same age as Anderson and just two years older than Cleverley. Neither of those players - the current candidates to partner Carrick in United's midfield - are in his class. Fellaini may have played behind a lone striker for Moyes at Everton but the Belgian himself explained that change in May: "I'm happy with my season, although I didn't play in my best position. I'm not a No10. David Moyes predicts my future as a defensive midfielder, but due to a lack of offensive power, he plays me up front." At United, Moyes could play him in a withdrawn role but have the option of pushing him further forward if a more direct style was required. His height offers a versatility not found in alternatives like Sami Khedira or Lars Bender.

It has been argued before that Moyes cannot be blamed for missing out on a player given the option of joining his former coach at the European champions and, should Barcelona refuse to sell Fabregas, that failure can hardly be laid at Moyes' door either. If his reaction to those disappointments is to turn to Fellaini - one of the better options available across Europe - he should at least be judged on the same criteria as his predecessor. What would have been an intelligent signing a year ago cannot become a cop-out just because Moyes used to manage Fellaini.

In an ideal world, Moyes would presumably prefer to make more of a statement of intent in the transfer market but if he begins next season with Fellaini and Baines as his only significant summer signings then he will have still significantly improved a squad that has just won the Premier League. Wasn't that his brief at the beginning of the window?
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There's something far too 'comfortable' about Moyes going in for Fellaini and Baines. They're safe options when he should be stepping outside of his comfort zone now as the manager of this Club. Bidding for Fabregas was doing that but missing out on him and going back for the safe familiar Fellaini option is disappointing. He's not a last resort either because players like Gustavo and Kondogbia are available for much cheaper (given that we've already missed out on Thiago and Strootman apparently not being too keen on either for whatever reason). Is he massively overvaluing players who are 'PL proven' and overlooking better players in the process?
 
I disagree that Fellaini's signing under Ferguson would've been greeted with open arms. Some of Ferguson's signings, particularly one's from within the league, were met with disappointment.
 
I wonder how some of Fergie's first signings would have been looked at these days. Viv Anderson, getting McClair from Scotland.

I think it may be more comfortable for Moyes to sign Premier League players simply because he has better knowledge of them. I'm sure he has knowledge of European players, but you can't look at everyone and he had to focus on those he has a chance of signing for Everton. Now he's been asked to step up a ladder, and if he goes for someone without PL history it might be based on scouting reports and watching tapes rather than watching the guy a few times. I'm willing to give him this summer as a stepping stone.
 
Ash_G said:
Just about I think, but still puts in to context buying within the premier league even if not english. Any midfielder you buy within the league will likely be ott.
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Which isn't entirely illogical, as by definition (presuming we are talking about a top club looking to buy), they are proven in the Premier League. Unlike Cabaye, Cazorla, or Fellaini when Everton bought him.
 
Kid Cunto said:
I disagree that Fellaini's signing under Ferguson would've been greeted with open arms. Some of Ferguson's signings, particularly one's from within the league, were met with disappointment.
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Yeah, Including Yorke and Carrick, at least by some...
 
LR7 said:
There's something far too 'comfortable' about Moyes going in for Fellaini and Baines. They're safe options when he should be stepping outside of his comfort zone now as the manager of this Club. Bidding for Fabregas was doing that but missing out on him and going back for the safe familiar Fellaini option is disappointing. He's not a last resort either because players like Gustavo and Kondogbia are available for much cheaper (given that we've already missed out on Thiago and Strootman apparently not being too keen on either for whatever reason). Is he massively overvaluing players who are 'PL proven' and overlooking better players in the process?
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Possibly, he is new to this scale of management, after all. But the fact is that we know very little about the actual availability of players like Gustavo. He looks decent, but I haven't seen nearly enough of him to make a qualified judgment. Anyway, going for Fellaini and Baines are safe options, certainly - but is that a problem? This is his first season in charge. He has undoubtedly tried going for more exotic targets, at least one - but if that fails, should he refrain from getting in safer options just for the sake of appearances, so to speak?

As pointed out in the article above, neither Baines nor Fellaini would've been regarded as hopelessly unimaginative alternatives had Fergie still been in charge.
 
I certainly wouldn't have magically liked Fellaini just because SAF chose him - and I imagine most who are against his signing would say the same. We still wouldn't need a player like him even if SAF was still here. It's lazy to assume that all United fans agreed with every decision that SAF made. All you need to do is come in here on a matchday to see how far from the truth that is. The uproar if Scholes/Giggs/Jones started in midfield or Kagawa/Rooney got subbed off early etc. I don't see why him picking Fellaini would make a blind bit of difference. Baines would still be unnecessary and Fellaini still not good enough, even if it was SAF signing them.
 
MancFanFromManc said:
I'm going in the opposite direction (assuming its possible to want him any less). Ying n Yang

Please please please DO NOT SIGN FELLAINI !!!
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I wouldn't mind if we signed Fellaini. People say he's not United quality but he's certainly played well against us in the past. I do think that we lack a bit of physical presence and he'd be the right player to have on the pitch at places like West Ham.
 
I know I wouldn't have been any more impressed if it was SAF who wanted to sign Fellaini, I'd still have thought we could do better. It has nothing to do with missing out on more glitzy players either, I just don't rate him that highly. I seriously doubt we'd be trying to sign him if Moyes wasn't our manager.
 
sullydnl said:
I know I wouldn't have been any more impressed if it was SAF who wanted to sign Fellaini, I'd still have thought we could do better. It has nothing to do with missing out on more glitzy players either, I just don't rate him that highly. I seriously doubt we'd be trying to sign him if Moyes wasn't our manager.
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Exactly. If we'd have signed him under SAF then I expect many here would have the same reactions. There wouldn't perhaps be quite as much doubt and people would have a lot more faith in a signing from Fergie, but to say we'd all be jumping for joy is nonsense.
 
LR7 said:
I certainly wouldn't have magically liked Fellaini just because SAF chose him - and I imagine most who are against his signing would say the same. We still wouldn't need a player like him even if SAF was still here. It's lazy to assume that all United fans agreed with every decision that SAF made. All you need to do is come in here on a matchday to see how far from the truth that is. The uproar if Scholes/Giggs/Jones started in midfield or Kagawa/Rooney got subbed off early etc. I don't see why him picking Fellaini would make a blind bit of difference. Baines would still be unnecessary and Fellaini still not good enough, even if it was SAF signing them.
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Fair enough, that's your opinion.

I personally think whether we need a player like him depends entirely on who else we get in. As it stands right now he would be anything but a superfluous signing. Baines is a different kettle of fish in that respect.

I know many would have bemoaned it if SAF had gotten Fellaini in too. The point is that with Moyes his affiliation with these players is used unfairly as a stick to beat him with - even before he's brought a single Everton player in. I'm not saying you're doing this, but some of our fans undoubtedly are: They're seeing his interest in these players as a sign of weakness, whereas Fergie's interest in them wouldn't be seen in that light - even though many would've been against us signing Fellaini regardless.
 
Sir A1ex said:
Which isn't entirely illogical, as by definition (presuming we are talking about a top club looking to buy), they are proven in the Premier League. Unlike Cabaye, Cazorla, or Fellaini when Everton bought him.
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There is that element to it but then that aspect of transfer is often overrated imo, it does play a part but can is over emphasized- good players will generally adapt. I reckon it's also to do with most PL clubs not really needing to sell as much as foreign clubs. My point though was more that I'd be surprised if there weren't some foreign based players out there who could be as good if not better in that role, for less money.
 
I think he might surprise a few people. Not opposed to his signing at all. And it seems to me like it won't preclude us from signing Fabregas if we can agree a deal with Barca (and the player himself).
 
Martinez is not showing an ounce of resistance to this signing either. He clearly doesn't rate him/want to keep him.
 
I'd be happy with Fellaini as an 'option' if it was in addition to Fabregas. As the main solution to our midfield, it would be hugely underwhelming.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Fair enough, that's your opinion.

I personally think whether we need a player like him depends entirely on who else we get in. As it stands right now he would be anything but a superfluous signing. Baines is a different kettle of fish in that respect.

I know many would have bemoaned it if SAF had gotten Fellaini in too. The point is that with Moyes his affiliation with these players is used unfairly as a stick to beat him with - even before he's brought a single Everton player in. I'm not saying you're doing this, but some of our fans undoubtedly are: They're seeing his interest in these players as a sign of weakness, whereas Fergie's interest in them wouldn't be seen in that light - even though many would've been against us signing Fellaini regardless.
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I think that viewpoint is actually being over-sensitive in regard to Moyes. After all that he had achieved SAF wasn't exempt from criticism and Moyes won't be. Fergie is often described on here as having a midfield blind spot and I've seen him held responsible on here for the 'state' that our midfield is currently in. It's nothing about sticks to beat Moyes with its just people saying what they thing regardless of who the manager is.
 
Anybody made a Fellaini Felony joke yet?
 
LR7 said:
I think that viewpoint is actually being over-sensitive in regard to Moyes. After all that he had achieved SAF wasn't exempt from criticism and Moyes won't be. Fergie is often described on here as having a midfield blind spot and I've seen him held responsible on here for the 'state' that our midfield is currently in. It's nothing about sticks to beat Moyes with its just people saying what they thing regardless of who the manager is.
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Perhaps you're right. I hope so. My feeling is that many are far more skeptical of Moyes' decisions than they were of Fergie's, though. Which is only natural, by all means.
 
MancFanFromManc said:
I'm going in the opposite direction (assuming its possible to want him any less). Ying n Yang

Please please please DO NOT SIGN FELLAINI !!!
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But when the other option is United sign no one, which from where I'm standing is looking likelier by the day, you'd be crazy to still not want him. At worst he'll at least provide an extra body in the midfield.
 
Seveneric said:
But when the other option is United sign no one, which from where I'm standing is looking likelier by the day, you'd be crazy to still not want him. At worst he'll at least provide an extra body in the midfield.
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This should not be the reason to sign him. There are other players currently available for less money than Fellaini.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Possibly, he is new to this scale of management, after all. But the fact is that we know very little about the actual availability of players like Gustavo. He looks decent, but I haven't seen nearly enough of him to make a qualified judgment. Anyway, going for Fellaini and Baines are safe options, certainly - but is that a problem? This is his first season in charge. He has undoubtedly tried going for more exotic targets, at least one - but if that fails, should he refrain from getting in safer options just for the sake of appearances, so to speak?

As pointed out in the article above, neither Baines nor Fellaini would've been regarded as hopelessly unimaginative alternatives had Fergie still been in charge.
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Nah, we actually do know that. According to the Bayern CEO Rummenigge there are several offers for him on the table from different leagues (the EPL is also mentioned) and Gustavo himself is right now in talks with Wolfsburg. It is becoming quite clear that he is on his way out and Bayern would be willing to let him go for a reasonable fee, probably around the 20 Mil. € mark. He would be a more defensive option in comparision, excelling mostly at tackling and passing, but I don´t view Fellaini as the safer option in comparision to him.

So, Fellaini has EPL experience, which is good, but at the same time he is far less proven than Gustavo on the international level. The latter has shown for several seasons his worth not only in the league, which is in my eyes the closest to the EPL in terms of play style, but also in the CL and with the Brazilian national team. If you can do that on so many stages, I see no reason to doubt you can do it in EPL.

Having said that, I would normally not mind this transfer. While Fellaini is not worth that much money IMO, he would strengthen an area of United, which needs improvement. The thing that irks me about this transfer are the circumstances.

In the beginning of the transfer window, the officials of United basically shouted from the rooftops that there is no budget and they could be willing to spend 100 Mil. pounds for transfers. The reasoning behind it is quite clear for me. After the retirement of SAF they wanted to give the fans some assurance, but in the end they build up some pretty big expectations. In the light of these statements this transfer seems lacking. Their tactic basically backfired.

An even bigger issue for me is the timing. Why bring him in that late, making him miss the whole pre season, which I view as really important, especially for a player in such a central role. It becomes so damn obvious that he is simply the fall back option and would only come to the Old Trafford, because there is nothing better available and he is easy to get. This already puts some immense pressure on the guy.

It does not make it better, that this could have been easily avoidable. There is in my eyes enough space in the CM for two transfers. They could have wrapped the deal up by the end of June or beginning of July, giving themselfes a bit of breathing room and Fellaini the time to settle in the United squad. Money can´t have been the issue here.
 
Seveneric said:
But when the other option is United sign no one, which from where I'm standing is looking likelier by the day, you'd be crazy to still not want him. At worst he'll at least provide an extra body in the midfield.
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I could provide an extra body in midfield. I'll grow my hair out if it helps?
 
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Here we go...
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Sphaero said:
Nah, we actually do know that. According to the Bayern CEO Rummenigge there are several offers for him on the table from different leagues (the EPL is also mentioned) and Gustavo himself is right now in talks with Wolfsburg. It is becoming quite clear that he is on his way out and Bayern would be willing to let him go for a reasonable fee, probably around the 20 Mil. € mark. He would be a more defensive option in comparision, excelling mostly at tackling and passing, but I don´t view Fellaini as the safer option in comparision to him.

So, Fellaini has EPL experience, which is good, but at the same time he is far less proven than Gustavo on the international level. The latter has shown for several seasons his worth not only in the league, which is in my eyes the closest to the EPL in terms of play style, but also in the CL and with the Brazilian national team. If you can do that on so many stages, I see no reason to doubt you can do it in EPL.

Having said that, I would normally not mind this transfer. While Fellaini is not worth that much money IMO, he would strengthen an area of United, which needs improvement. The thing that irks me about this transfer are the circumstances.

In the beginning of the transfer window, the officials of United basically shouted from the rooftops that there is no budget and they could be willing to spend 100 Mil. pounds for transfers. The reasoning behind it is quite clear for me. After the retirement of SAF they wanted to give the fans some assurance, but in the end they build up some pretty big expectations. In the light of these statements this transfer seems lacking. Their tactic basically backfired.

An even bigger issue for me is the timing. Why bring him in that late, making him miss the whole pre season, which I view as really important, especially for a player in such a central role. It becomes so damn obvious that he is simply the fall back option and would only come to the Old Trafford, because there is nothing better available and he is easy to get. This already puts some immense pressure on the guy.

It does not make it better, that this could have been easily avoidable. There is in my eyes enough space in the CM for two transfers. They could have wrapped the deal up by the end of June or beginning of July, giving themselfes a bit of breathing room and Fellaini the time to settle in the United squad. Money can´t have been the issue here.
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Yeah, well - there are plenty of things we don't know here. The strategy seems less than clear to me. We have gone for at least one big name, I can only assume we have been working on other, less conspicuous targets as well: Moyes did suggest he was looking at "a couple" of midfielders. We'll see, the window hasn't closed yet. To me personally it matters little whether X, Y and Z are first choice or fallback options, really. We need some players in that area, it's that simple.
 
Why are we wasting time going after Baines? It's not a signing that's going to bring any real benefits, especially if Evra is still at the club. Depressing story from The Guardian, hope to God it's untrue.
 
£30 million for the pair? That is... wait for it... value. I mean that. Wouldn't be a bad deal at all considering the state of the market this summer.
 
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