Fellaini

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The underlying assumption of my previous post is that we would shred our competition in the league, as we did last season. I expect we will actually do just that.

I don't know if you've been following Bayern lately, but they just bagged a treble and have since strengthened their squad. They're suddenly in the conversation for "greatest squad of all time". That may be premature, but the point still holds that they'll go on a rampage this season. I don't see how we could match them in talent, athleticism or experience unless we brought in Ronaldo, which does not appear to be in the cards.

As for Barcelona, they're stacked too and should coast to the CL semifinals.

I'm not aware of anyone here who suggests we will coast to the CL semifinals this season.

Well that assumption is an incredibly arrogant one. We shredded the competition in 2001, added two class players but ended up third next season because instead of sorting out the obvious weakness we tried to paper over the cracks (Blanc). We have lost SAF, Chelsea have gained Mourinho, City have strengthened their squad considerably. We can't rest on our laurels, thinking it's all good.

Yes, I know Bayern are incredibly strong and so are Barcelona. And that is why it is a bit bizarre for me that you suggest we do not even start to try catching up to them. "They are really very good so we should give up on becoming better" - WTF? How does that make any sense?

You say that we should postpone sorting out the midfield, YET AGAIN, but then what? Van Persie is 30 now, Vidic and Ferdinand are getting older, Carrick is 32, Evra is 32... sooner or later we'll just have to rebuild the entire effing squad from scratch if we're sitting on our arse saying "oh but Barca and Bayern are better than us anyway so why bother?"
 
I slightly want him now but I don't want to want him. I actually think if we used him exclusively as a central midfielder he could be very useful for us, it's just not the glamour signing we all wanted when the window opened. We like to think of ourselves (and we generally are) a good footballing side, not in the same way that Barca or Dortmund are, but the way Fellaini was used at Everton was quite the opposite at times. Still, we'd score even more goals from crosses and corners.
 
I slightly want him now but I don't want to want him. I actually think if we used him exclusively as a central midfielder he could be very useful for us, it's just not the glamour signing we all wanted when the window opened. We like to think of ourselves (and we generally are) a good footballing side, not in the same way that Barca or Dortmund are, but the way Fellaini was used at Everton was quite the opposite at times. Still, we'd score even more goals from crosses and corners.


United at their best play an infinitely more watchable style than either Barca or Dortmund. Not saying we were as effective, but much more watchable and attractive on the eye.
 
If you think the fee's we would have paid at those times would have been 8 and 11 then you are delusional.

Well it might have been 20% or 30% more because we're richer than Benfica or Porto but it wouldn't have been £25m - £35m we'll have to pay for a decent midfielder now. Vidal went for £10m to Juventus and we'd have had to pay the exact same price, Gundogan went for €7m to Dortmund.
 
United at their best play an infinitely more watchable style than either Barca or Dortmund. Not saying we were as effective, but much more watchable and attractive on the eye.

Depends on what you like to be fair. Some love watching teams pass the other to death while some like teams that just go for it. Barca at their best in 2009/10 were amazing to watch, and Dortmund last season were very nice to watch too, especially in the CL.

Anyway, Fellaini. I really didnt want him a month or two back, but I'm coming around to the idea of it now. I'd still prefer others, but I wouldnt be pissed if we got him now. I'm not sure whether its out of desperation or if I've just had more time to think about it, but if he was brought in to play back-up to Carrick and provide more steel in bigger games, fair enough.
 
Apart from Berbatov i cant think of any last day signings from us since the windows was introduced. Bebe?
 
Well it might have been 20% or 30% more because we're richer than Benfica or Porto but it wouldn't have been £25m - £35m we'll have to pay for a decent midfielder now. Vidal went for £10m to Juventus and we'd have had to pay the exact same price, Gundogan went for €7m to Dortmund.

Fair enough. The problem with that type of player now though is that Moyes seems to be only looking for proven Prem players rightly or wrongly. I can't see us picking up one of these relatively unknown MF's this summer.


Depends on what you like to be fair. Some love watching teams pass the other to death while some like teams that just go for it. Barca at their best in 2009/10 were amazing to watch, and Dortmund last season were very nice to watch too, especially in the CL.

Anyway, Fellaini. I really didnt want him a month or two back, but I'm coming around to the idea of it now. I'd still prefer others, but I wouldnt be pissed if we got him now. I'm not sure whether its out of desperation or if I've just had more time to think about it, but if he was brought in to play back-up to Carrick and provide more steel in bigger games, fair enough.


Nah, I have never enjoyed watching this Barca/Spain tika taka passing around endlessly game. I was able to admire it for how completely brilliant it was and how much skill it required but it also bored me to death.
 
Nah, I have never enjoyed watching this Barca/Spain tika taka passing around endlessly game. I was able to admire it for how completely brilliant it was and how much skill it required but it also bored me to death.

Really? I have to admit, I love watching Barca play, especially the start of this season and two seasons ago. Spain were a bit less exciting due to no Messi and Del Bosque playing an Alonso-Busquets double pivot which made Spain more solid but less exciting. I guess its all down to personal preference though, and I still prefer a gung-ho attitude like us(traditionally, not so much last year) when it works.
 
Fair enough. The problem with that type of player now though is that Moyes seems to be only looking for proven Prem players rightly or wrongly. I can't see us picking up one of these relatively unknown MF's this summer.





Nah, I have never enjoyed watching this Barca/Spain tika taka passing around endlessly game. I was able to admire it for how completely brilliant it was and how much skill it required but it also bored me to death.


Playing it safe for this season. Hopefully he will get more adventurous in future.
 
It would make it interesting. Apart from Berbatov deadline day is a bore for United fans.

I quite like knowing we have finished our business early and looking at eejits like Odemwingie acting a gobshite and clubs like Liverpool and Chelsea panicking and making dud signings. Wouldn't have it any other way tbh.
 
Depends on what you like to be fair. Some love watching teams pass the other to death while some like teams that just go for it. Barca at their best in 2009/10 were amazing to watch, and Dortmund last season were very nice to watch too, especially in the CL.

Anyway, Fellaini. I really didnt want him a month or two back, but I'm coming around to the idea of it now. I'd still prefer others, but I wouldnt be pissed if we got him now. I'm not sure whether its out of desperation or if I've just had more time to think about it, but if he was brought in to play back-up to Carrick and provide more steel in bigger games, fair enough.

That's the desperation kicking in.

I cannot voice my dissent against this potential move enough. I think he's okay for a certain type of football, but I'd be really disappointed if he ended up with us.

Even if he can play at the base of the midfield, I don't think he has the required mobility. And Carrick isn't renowned for being fleet-footed either.

I can honestly say I'd rather persist with the players we have than get Fellaini.
 
Fair enough. The problem with that type of player now though is that Moyes seems to be only looking for proven Prem players rightly or wrongly. I can't see us picking up one of these relatively unknown MF's this summer.

It's wrong IMO, there haven't been enough midfield quality in Premier League in recent years and top talent have been snapped up by Madrid (Modric) and Barcelona (Fabregas). The likes of Fellaini, McCarthy or even Dembele are second tier, they'll be good enough to fight for PL title and perhaps challenge a bit in Europe but won't make us the best team in Europe.
 
Interesting article on ESPN today. I'm not a Fellaini hater but by the end of it I'm more jealous of what Everton fans may be treated to than us if the transfer goes through. :nervous:

http://espnfc.com/columns/story/_/i...tinez-idealist-ponders-everton-system?cc=3888

Martinez ponders Everton system

July 26, 2013
By Richard Jolly
(Archive)
A smile can camouflage a stubborn streak. Roberto Martinez can appear one of the most amiable, amenable men in the cut-throat business that is football management but he can be as obstinate as any of the more awkward characters to occupy a dugout. He just has a different way of showing it.
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PA PhotosMarouane Fellaini might not fit in Roberto Martinez's formation at Everton.
The new Everton manager allies industrial quantities of belief in his methods and ideas with a refusal to be concerned by conventional wisdom. In his days at Wigan, he was almost deliberately different and not because winning the FA Cup and being relegated in the space of four days proved a unique journey from high to low. Tactically, Martinez was happy to be the exception, acting as an evangelist for a back three over two seasons when every one of his counterparts in Premier League management employed four defenders.
Despite Wigan's eventual demotion, much of their success in that time - particularly their seven victories in the last nine games of the 2011-12 season and their FA Cup run last year - can be attributed to their formation. Or, perhaps more accurately, one of them: mid-match switches between a three- and four-man defence were frequent occurrences last season.
And so, while Martinez has begun his reign at Goodison Park by persevering with the 4-4-1-1 that was David Moyes' trademark system, it might be an idealist showing his pragmatic streak: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. "It's important that the team don't lose what they're good at," Martinez said when unveiled. "They are special at many aspects of their game, and what we need to do is carry on improving. It's important we get our players to be excited about the next stage at the football club."
Yet given his steadfast belief in his methods, it is easy to imagine the next stage, in his eyes, incorporates a back three. It is also pertinent that, despite Everton's effectiveness playing 4-4-1-1, which enabled them to combine solidity with steel, few squads in England are as equipped to be reconfigured.
Given wing-backs' significance in Martinez's favourite shape, it bodes well that Everton have perhaps the finest pair in England. Leighton Baines has been unrivalled at left-back for a couple of years and, as the leading chance creator in Europe's top five leagues last season, could be still more productive if he had fewer defensive duties. The similarly dynamic and much improved Seamus Coleman has started to mirror Baines' displays on the opposite flank.
Operating in a back three places different demands on central defenders; footballing ability is required, especially in a Martinez team, if they are not to have three passengers in possession, while speed is essential to cover when the wing-backs advance. Again, the Spaniard is well served. Sylvain Distin has a turn of speed that belies his 35 years and as one of the comparatively few left-footed centre-backs, is suited to a slightly wider role.
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GettyImagesRoberto Martinez is planning for his first season as Everton boss.
Phil Jagielka served much of his apprenticeship at Sheffield United at right-back and in midfield; the best English centre-back is more than simply a stopper. If Johnny Heitinga's form last season qualifies him to play neither in a back three nor a back four, the recent recruit Antolin Alcaraz was at his most authoritative for Wigan as the central figure among three centre-backs.
At the other end, Martinez has already recreated his attack at the DW Stadium by recruiting Arouna Kone. The Ivorian offers a counter-attacking outlet to complement the technicians behind: indeed, while Wigan's system was often deemed 3-4-3, the most accurate description is 3-4-2-1 with two tiers of twin technicians.
At the heart of the midfield, Darron Gibson and Leon Osman offer an Evertonian equivalent of James McCarthy and James McArthur, with a deep-lying distributor offering footballing intelligence. The emphasis is on distribution, rather than being a defensive midfielder.
Then comes the problem. To accommodate a third centre-back, someone has to be sacrificed. Realistically, that means either the support striker or one of the wide men. Specialist wingers can be rendered redundant by a wing-back formation but, as Everton's veered infield anyway, they actually bear considerable similarities to Wigan's flair players. Like Shaun Maloney, Steven Pienaar is a natural No. 10 who can also play on the left. Like Callum McManaman, Kevin Mirallas offers pace and dribbling skills. Both are post-modern wingers, playing between the lines.
Then there is the exception, lacking a Wigan counterpart. Marouane Fellaini is the odd one out, and not least because he can be a target man who enabled Everton to go from back to front quickly. Moyes' 4-4-1-1 revolved around the Belgian and Tim Cahill before him, abrasive players operating in an area often populated by aesthetes. Martinez has the option of dropping Fellaini into the heart of midfield but his continuing presence at Goodison Park perhaps explains why, so far, there has been no systemic change.
But if going from 4-4-1-1 to 3-4-2-1 now would mean benching one of Fellaini, Pienaar, Mirallas, Gibson and Osman, each a fine performer for Moyes last year, the switch could be simpler in the future. If a club in the Champions League activates the hirsute talisman's release clause and given the impossibility of finding a like-for-like replacement for an idiosyncratic player, Martinez's preferred shape may be Everton's post-Fellaini formation.
 
You all know my deadline day post was tongue in cheek, right? Deadline day is a fecking farce, year in, year out. I'm glad we're rarely involved and hope it stays that way.
 
Fellaini would fit in if he is played as a CM. It would be stupid to drop our best player (on par with Baines imo) because he doesn't fit as an AM with Martinez's style. He's still our best CM.
 
I cannot voice my dissent against this potential move enough. I think he's okay for a certain type of football, but I'd be really disappointed if he ended up with us.

Even if he can play at the base of the midfield, I don't think he has the required mobility. And Carrick isn't renowned for being fleet-footed either.

I can honestly say I'd rather persist with the players we have than get Fellaini.
Couldn't agree more.
 
It's like the last knockings on a Saturday night.

Oh it's 2am, you'll do fellaini...
 
Fellaini would fit in if he is played as a CM. It would be stupid to drop our best player (on par with Baines imo) because he doesn't fit as an AM with Martinez's style. He's still our best CM.

Oh yes, I agree and that was the part of the article that made the least sense when he ignored that option and prioritised other CMs. He does have good points on how well set you are to adopt Martinez' approach. You will never have a bore draw again, that's for sure.
 
I actually like people who have the balls to sport weird hair. The world would be boring if we all had short back and sides.
 
I actually like people who have the balls to sport weird hair. The world would be boring if we all had short back and sides.


Thing is, it's easy to have a crap haircut if you're a footballer. In fact, if I was a professional footballer, I'd dedicate all my time outside of matches/training to honing an outlandish haircut.

Short, back and sides is a necessary evil for those with normal jobs.
 
I'm getting twitchy now, the new season is worryingly close and I shudder to think what our starting CM partnership would look like if we had to play tomorrow. Activate the release clause and sign him up; he would certainly improve our first eleven, he is at a good age, his release clause is fairly reasonable, he's versatile and he would add some much needed physicality to our midfield. Even if (and it's an enormous "if) we sign Fabregas we still need a midfielder of his ilk.
 
I'm getting twitchy now, the new season is worryingly close and I shudder to think what our starting CM partnership would look like if we had to play tomorrow. Activate the release clause and sign him up; he would certainly improve our first eleven, he is at a good age, his release clause is fairly reasonable, he's versatile and he would add some much needed physicality to our midfield. Even if (and it's an enormous "if) we sign Fabregas we still need a midfielder of his ilk.


And there we have it. Let's sign someone so we can cope.

Come on! We've surely got time to sign someone better than this clown.
 
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