It's gone particularly special this summer. Fergie retiring has just pushed it all off a cliff.
Fellaini
- Thread starter Bilbo
- Start date
- Status
It's gone particularly special this summer. Fergie retiring has just pushed it all off a cliff.
I watch Everton a lot (I like Everton, probably because the hate towards them from my Liverpool mates) He is not good enough for the role he played at Everton this year. We have Kagawa and Rooney for that, and that is the kind of player we should always try to have there.
If we sign him as a central midfielder to pair up with Carrick, I'm more confident he can do a great job. I have not seen him to often in that role, but he has a lot of attributes that comes in handy there.
If we sign him as a central midfielder to pair up with Carrick, I'm more confident he can do a great job. I have not seen him to often in that role, but he has a lot of attributes that comes in handy there.
Totally agree. Very strange to think we would attempt to fail in a bid as a PR stunt.
He could provide more options. For instance, play him centrally, then, if with 5 minutes to go we are 1-down, push him forward into a more attacking role. The number of times City have done this with Yaya drives me mad.
Responding to the various replies to my post above, my rejoinder is that if we spent the 24m required to buy Fellaini, I really don't see how Cleverley gets in many starts, at least in meaningful games.
Let's think this through, in terms of the "attacking six":
Carrick Fellani
Valencia Cleverley Nani
RvP
Where's Rooney...where's Kagawa?
Okay, scratch the above.
Carrick Cleverley
Valencia Fellaini Nani
RvP
Oops, still no Rooney and no Kagawa.
Carrick Fellaini
Valencia Kagawa Nani
RvP
Still no Rooney
Carrick Fellaini
Valencia Rooney Kagawa
RvP
Better, but we're not sure about Rooney as a midfielder and Kagawa wide left. In either event, there's no room for Cleverley the moment we bring in Fellaini. Yes, they're different kinds of mids but I don't think anyone here is suggesting Fellaini is a purely defensive midfielder. He does his best work in the last third IMHO and where he does his very best work is crashing the box. If we're going to bring him, and I have a feeling now we will (though it does no harm for us posters to dream about Fabregas), it will be at Cleverley's expense. Fellaini, were he to be brought in, would not be brought in as cover for Cleverley. Taking a step back, the underlying premise of our desire to strengthen our midfield is that Cleverley just doesn't have what it takes to take command of United's midfield duties. That's okay, though for me that's just a bit premature. I personally believe that while he did seem to run out of energy in the second half of the season, he put in some outstanding performances earlier in the season.
At any rate, it might not be such a bad thing for Cleverley to have some of the pressure taken off of him by bringing in an attacking mid and easing Cleverley into that role. We've got a bigger problem to sort out anyway, which is the Rooney matter and how we would utilize both Rooney and Kagawa. I have no answer for that, other than to entertain the prospect that Rooney may have to go. And if he does go, as well as Nani, that may just free up enough funds to make the Bale acquisition possible. If that all comes to pass, then we're looking at this:
Carrick Fellaini
Valencia Kagawa Bale
RvP
Don't read too much into where I've "placed" Kagawa. We could just as easily look at our formation thus...
Valencia Carrick Fellaini Bale
Kagawa RvP
...depending on the game situation.
This is much too much speculation. I apologize. I'm just trying to make sense of where this might be going. I'm far more interested in landing Bale or Ronaldo than I am in landing that killer attacking mid we all want. Given the availability of talent, I'd put more of my eggs in landing either of those two ridiculous forward/wingers than anything else. For my money, we can even forget about an attacking mid altogether if we landed either Bale or Ronaldo.
Settling the Rooney question is a prerequisite to getting a firm handle on what our absolute needs are. If somehow we did bring in Bale or Ronaldo AND we brought in Fabregas (not gonna happen, but I'm just sayin'...) or Fellaini, not only do we have to wonder whether Cleverley would see ANY playing time, we'd also have to wonder where the hell does Rooney fit in?
(Let's not forget about Nani as well as our recent sexy recruit, Zaha.)
Many questions, few answers. We shall find out how this plays out in due time.
Let's think this through, in terms of the "attacking six":
Carrick Fellani
Valencia Cleverley Nani
RvP
Where's Rooney...where's Kagawa?
Okay, scratch the above.
Carrick Cleverley
Valencia Fellaini Nani
RvP
Oops, still no Rooney and no Kagawa.
Carrick Fellaini
Valencia Kagawa Nani
RvP
Still no Rooney
Carrick Fellaini
Valencia Rooney Kagawa
RvP
Better, but we're not sure about Rooney as a midfielder and Kagawa wide left. In either event, there's no room for Cleverley the moment we bring in Fellaini. Yes, they're different kinds of mids but I don't think anyone here is suggesting Fellaini is a purely defensive midfielder. He does his best work in the last third IMHO and where he does his very best work is crashing the box. If we're going to bring him, and I have a feeling now we will (though it does no harm for us posters to dream about Fabregas), it will be at Cleverley's expense. Fellaini, were he to be brought in, would not be brought in as cover for Cleverley. Taking a step back, the underlying premise of our desire to strengthen our midfield is that Cleverley just doesn't have what it takes to take command of United's midfield duties. That's okay, though for me that's just a bit premature. I personally believe that while he did seem to run out of energy in the second half of the season, he put in some outstanding performances earlier in the season.
At any rate, it might not be such a bad thing for Cleverley to have some of the pressure taken off of him by bringing in an attacking mid and easing Cleverley into that role. We've got a bigger problem to sort out anyway, which is the Rooney matter and how we would utilize both Rooney and Kagawa. I have no answer for that, other than to entertain the prospect that Rooney may have to go. And if he does go, as well as Nani, that may just free up enough funds to make the Bale acquisition possible. If that all comes to pass, then we're looking at this:
Carrick Fellaini
Valencia Kagawa Bale
RvP
Don't read too much into where I've "placed" Kagawa. We could just as easily look at our formation thus...
Valencia Carrick Fellaini Bale
Kagawa RvP
...depending on the game situation.
This is much too much speculation. I apologize. I'm just trying to make sense of where this might be going. I'm far more interested in landing Bale or Ronaldo than I am in landing that killer attacking mid we all want. Given the availability of talent, I'd put more of my eggs in landing either of those two ridiculous forward/wingers than anything else. For my money, we can even forget about an attacking mid altogether if we landed either Bale or Ronaldo.
Settling the Rooney question is a prerequisite to getting a firm handle on what our absolute needs are. If somehow we did bring in Bale or Ronaldo AND we brought in Fabregas (not gonna happen, but I'm just sayin'...) or Fellaini, not only do we have to wonder whether Cleverley would see ANY playing time, we'd also have to wonder where the hell does Rooney fit in?
(Let's not forget about Nani as well as our recent sexy recruit, Zaha.)
Many questions, few answers. We shall find out how this plays out in due time.
----------Van Persie--------
------Rooney---------------
-------------------Valencia-
---------Kagawa-----------
-----Carrick---Fellaini------
Done. Rooney drifts out wide left from a central position (which he tends to do anyway). Nani and Zaha could take up Valencia's spot and keep the same shape, or Welbeck could come in and have a more fluid attacking 3.
------Rooney---------------
-------------------Valencia-
---------Kagawa-----------
-----Carrick---Fellaini------
Done. Rooney drifts out wide left from a central position (which he tends to do anyway). Nani and Zaha could take up Valencia's spot and keep the same shape, or Welbeck could come in and have a more fluid attacking 3.
More like Rooney drifts out wide and into Chelsea's squad.
So... What is predicted date to sign the Afro Ninja. 1st of August ?
Any time before his release clause expires.
Fellaini will be a good addition ok he aint world class but he would add many attributes to our team.
Looks like Rooney is off now judging by Moyes comments- we have to get bale in now.
Looks like Rooney is off now judging by Moyes comments- we have to get bale in now.
I like it, but we're basically relegating Cleverley as a role player. That's okay and perhaps entirely justified. If we hauled in Fabregas, there'd be no question that Fabregas would be Master Po and Cleverley would be Grasshopper. But I'm just not as sure Fellaini is that massive an upgrade from Cleverley. Maybe he is. He's tooled us on a few occasions, no question about it.
Ruud I said from the start when Moyes was announced that I could see us playing with traditional wingers less often and more with a compact central from 6 and the full backs given even more licence to get forward. In that regard a bid for Baines makes perfect sense.
It is going to end up
Thiago - Bayern
Cesc - Barca
Fellani - Arsenal
Strootman - Roma
Anderson - Man Utd
We really should sign Fellani BTW!
Thiago - Bayern
Cesc - Barca
Fellani - Arsenal
Strootman - Roma
Anderson - Man Utd
We really should sign Fellani BTW!
We've made bid for Baines and nothing happened... Fellaini may be a distant dream at this point.
Carrick is 32 years old and the player Cleverley most resembles in style of play. Regardless of who we sign, it's Carrick that's blocking Cleverley's route to the first team I think. If he's patient, he can still get 30-35 games a season until Carrick's unable to play as much.
Chasing other targets first, perhaps. I too, was thinking the same though.
He could be the fall back option, a plan B option, a last resort option. You get the point....
This transfer is actually going to happen isn't it?
So we've been teased and tempted with the idea of Cesc and Thiago and now when the muppets are vulnerable, on the back of losing out on those two in 24 hrs, and so desperate to sign a midfielder, they actually think that signing Fellaini is a good idea for Manchester United to progress? I don't get it. I wonder why Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, Juventus etc aren't falling over each other to sign him? He's simply not good enough and he fouls too much.
I keep reading "He adds something different" but different doesnt necessarily mean good. I'd go as far as saying that he is the antithesis of what we should be trying to achieve.
After the game at Goidison SAF said:
I wouldn't want him if he was available on a free transfer.
I was hoping Wenger would do us a favour and buy him.
We could sign him and not put him up top and play long ball.
Anyway, when we sign Bale we won't need much creativity or delicacy in CM. We'll just need a solid base to let our front men go wild.
I think a midfield of:
------Fellaini---Carrick---------
----------Kagawa-------------
Is more balanced than anything we've had for years. Height, steel, vision, passing - really would be better than what we have now. Finish it with the rest of the team and it looks pretty good on paper:
----------De Gea-----------
-Rafa---Rio----Evans--Evra-
------Fellaini-Carrick--------
----------Kagawa----------
--Nani--------------Zaha--
-----------RVP------------
------Fellaini---Carrick---------
----------Kagawa-------------
Is more balanced than anything we've had for years. Height, steel, vision, passing - really would be better than what we have now. Finish it with the rest of the team and it looks pretty good on paper:
----------De Gea-----------
-Rafa---Rio----Evans--Evra-
------Fellaini-Carrick--------
----------Kagawa----------
--Nani--------------Zaha--
-----------RVP------------
So long as we don't sign him I don't care. Is the the Evertonisation of Man Utd?This transfer is actually going to happen isn't it?
I wouldn't want him if he was available on a free transfer.
I was hoping Wenger would do us a favour and buy him.
- replace manager with Everton manager
- replace coaching staff with Everton coaches
- replace players with Everton players
- buy Everton-class players if you can't get real Everton players
I wouldn't disagree with you except I don't see us paying 20m or whatever the amount is Everton want for Baines. We were a bit leaky in defense last season anyway and we might be wiser to secure a genuinely defensive left fullback rather than a de facto left winger disguised as a left fullback -- if the idea is to say goodbye to Evra. I like Baines a lot, mind you, but I just don't see him as being as pressing a need in light of the known circumstances. To me, the obvious answer is to let Fabio and Buttner compete for the spot, but I'm just a lowly caftard.
As far as wingers are concerned, as of today we've got four -- Nani, Valencia, Young and Zaha -- and until that changes I just can't see us not using the players we already have to the full strengths.
We'd have to do a lot re-engineering to the squad to accommodate a more compact central 6 with Baines being our left back. But then again, I think we're splitting hairs. Because of the poor play of our wingers last season we played a more compact game in our front 6 anyway, yet at the same time no one is seriously suggesting we completely abandon the historic core United philosophy of utilizing wingers and stretching the pitch as wide as possible to create chances off crosses.
It seems to me reason we posters are over the place in recent weeks is that there are simply too many unknowns. We don't know what will become of Rooney or Nani; we have a central midfield problem; there's talk of a central defender acquisition and there is talk of Evra leaving or being shipped off. They're all interconnected, so that the answer to any of these issues has a significxant impact on how we deal with other issues.
Yer Moyes can't exactly go out and buy a bunch of superstars, throw 'em together and hope it pays off. Maybe he's just starting with a solid, if unspectacular foundation to try and maintain while he's learning to mix it with the big guns.
Or maybe that's bollocks.
Or maybe that's bollocks.
It's got to be something like that. I mean, how hard can it be to sign fecking Fellaini? And from a team like Everton??!?!?!?! 16m maximum, including Moyesness goodwill. It's nothing but embarrassing to even think this will be a story all summer. Just sort the damn thing. They were handed several players from us when they were in an urgent need - Neville and that other crap player that I'm too drunk to remember the name of. He plays in midfield anyway and likes to shoot a lot from a distance.
Depressing really, I don't think he's united quality, plus, after the fun of Thiago for a couple weeks, and the 24 hours Cesc... this is a bit disappointing.
Arsenalisation for the win. Worked for every team, so far.
Rowem and Pete quoted me before I corrected my typo
Moyes seems to be playing it safe and staying in his comfort zone, a bid for Cesc that was never going to stick doesn't change that. I won't be getting on his back but we're a few tiers above Everton for a reason.
Moyes seems to be playing it safe and staying in his comfort zone, a bid for Cesc that was never going to stick doesn't change that. I won't be getting on his back but we're a few tiers above Everton for a reason.
Again, I hope not.
Arteta was always too good for Everton.
I don't think it would be that much of a stretch to see us play more narrow up front with one or two additions to the squad. I also don't think we'll scrap the wing play altogether but I can certainly see it being restricted.
Take a this side (assuming we are losing Evra and getting Baines).
DDG
CB --------CB
Raf ------------------Baines
Carrick Fellaini
Kagawa
Nani/Zaha-------- Rooney
RVP
Straightforward enough line up. 2 CB's stay well back (stop those runs Evans) Two of the most attacking FB's in the League playing as almost wingbacks. Carrick and Fellaini playing deep with Carrick providing the screening cover he always does along with the distribution from the back and Fellaini beside him to mop up, win dirty ball, provide defensive cover and get the ball to Carrick/Kagawa. This allows Kagawa, Rooney Winger plenty of space between the lines to be creative and play the quick passing game we want to see whilst still being able to get the ball out wide to the fullbacks on the touchline or cutting inside. RVP will do what he does, primarily elbow people and score great goals.
I think that side would be strong enough for anyone in the league whilst giving licence to the front players to really play nice fast attacking football. The big question is are our CB's fast enough to deal with that system now?
Arteta had a lower jump to make than Fellaini is likely to
Has something happened and I've missed it?
Nothing, just this thread is getting more active now we've missed out on the other 2.
Phew!
If we end up with Baines and Afro from Moyes old club its going to be such a let down. We're never going to outgun the top clubs for the top players at big fees, as we never do, surely though we could have gotten a Barca reseerve player and do better than Fellani?
If Moyes buys him then shunts Kagawa to the bench or our technical players it'll be tough to take. Losing Fergie bad enough.
If Moyes buys him then shunts Kagawa to the bench or our technical players it'll be tough to take. Losing Fergie bad enough.
- Status