Fellaini

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Irwynwastheking said:
See that's just complete BS.
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It's not complete bullshit though I'm afraid. That's one of his main attributes and he uses it very well to be fair to him. He hasn't opened games up with extraordinary vision, he hasn't knitted together Evertons attack with 1-2's, he hasn't regularly shown bits of skill to create space for runners as much as a £25m attacking player should be. It's been his hold up play and physical presence more often that not which has caught the eye. I don't see how anybody can deny it.

As far as him playing in a deeper role is concerned, I don't think he's a good enough passer, he fouls too much and I've not really see him start off attacks or shown any playmaking abilities. So what are we left with? A big physical presence who's half decent in midfield for £25m. The best we can hope for is him breaking up play occasionally and deferring to Carrick when he's in good form and providing late runs into the box a la Lampard. I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough for a first team regular at club with our aspirations, imo
 
TheReligion said:
I've included Kagawa and Rooney, even though Rooney plays further forward, to give everyone an idea of his figures this season at a club that statistically has fewer chances and less of the ball than United.

Not sure how anyone can say he wouldn't improve us, I really can't.
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Most people who want us to sign him want him to play in a defensive midfield position, but the stats you're using are from him playing in a much more offensive position. Rooney and Kagawa (when he plays there) play behind the striker which is where Fellaini has played this season so how does Rooney play further forward?

Here is Evertons average seasonal formation:

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No point using his stats from playing as a forward to justify signing him to play in DM. More relevant stats would be clearances, tackles, interceptions, forward passes, average passes per game.

We already know he's committed more fouls than any other player in the PL this season despite playing as a forward.
 
Steven Seagull said:
It's not complete bullshit though I'm afraid. That's one of his main attributes and he uses it very well to be fair to him. He hasn't opened games up with extraordinary vision, he hasn't knitted together Evertons attack with 1-2's, he hasn't regularly shown bits of skill to create space for runners as much as a £25m attacking player should be. It's been his hold up play and physical presence more often that not which has caught the eye. I don't see how anybody can deny it.

As far as him playing in a deeper role is concerned, I don't think he's a good enough passer, he fouls too much and I've not really see him start off attacks or shown any playmaking abilities. So what are we left with? A big physical presence who's half decent in midfield for £25m. The best we can hope for is him breaking up play occasionally and deferring to Carrick when he's in good form and providing late runs into the box a la Lampard. I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough for a first team regular at club with our aspirations, imo
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Good post
 
He couldn't play as defensive midfield though could he? Is he quick? No. Disciplined? No. Good passer of the ball under pressure. Debatable. Good tackler? No. Tall and strong? Check, lets buy him so. Imagine a nifty offensive midfielder ala Mata or Hazard running at Fellaini.
 
lem8sh said:
He couldn't play as defensive midfield though could he? Is he quick? No. Disciplined? No. Good passer of the ball under pressure. Debatable. Good tackler? No. Tall and strong? Check, lets buy him so. Imagine a nifty offensive midfielder ala Mata or Hazard running at Fellaini.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
thats when he gets booked. On the plus side Mata and Hazard are probably too small to get on the pointy end of his elbows
 
LR7 said:
There are more polite ways to phrase it, but its true.
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It's not true, it's a load of sensationalist shite. He's a very good player who Steven obviously hasn't watched very much of otherwise he'd know that he was wrong. It reeks of someone who's only watched him against us and in similar games, and against us I don't remember his elbows or bushy hair being used as a tool. I remember it as his power, strength, ability to hold up a ball and bring others into play with good passing, ability to be involved in some of the 1/2's Everton played against us.
 
Isn't it fairly obvious why he's committing fouls up the pitch? If you've watched us our pressing in the final third has been super, and Fellaini is a big part of this as he's excellent at getting the opposition to make mistakes.

Is it bad that he's making tackles/attempting tackles high up the pitch? Yes and no.
Yes, as it means the teams aren't able to build a counter attack, or string a couple of passes around the back 4. It also means that when he wins the ball we are in a great position to threaten/score.

No, as it means if he does make fouls that it can waste some time for your team if you're a goal behind.

If he makes so many fouls and only gets booked that much it also means he knows how to get away with niggly tackles and such.
 
SilentWitness said:
Isn't it fairly obvious why he's committing fouls up the pitch? If you've watched us our pressing in the final third has been super, and Fellaini is a big part of this as he's excellent at getting the opposition to make mistakes.

Is it bad that he's making tackles/attempting tackles high up the pitch? Yes and no.
Yes, as it means the teams aren't able to build a counter attack, or string a couple of passes around the back 4. It also means that when he wins the ball we are in a great position to threaten/score.

No, as it means if he does make fouls that it can waste some time for your team if you're a goal behind.

If he makes so many fouls and only gets booked that much it also means he knows how to get away with niggly tackles and such.
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Some on here are too think to understand anything like that.
 
That's going to be the main issue. Moyes obviously has a great deal of respect for Everton Football Club, and the fans especially. Not sure he will go straight in there and attempt to negotiate a deal for there best players. And that's fair enough in my opinion.
 
SilentWitness said:
Isn't it fairly obvious why he's committing fouls up the pitch? If you've watched us our pressing in the final third has been super, and Fellaini is a big part of this as he's excellent at getting the opposition to make mistakes.

Is it bad that he's making tackles/attempting tackles high up the pitch? Yes and no.
Yes, as it means the teams aren't able to build a counter attack, or string a couple of passes around the back 4. It also means that when he wins the ball we are in a great position to threaten/score.

No, as it means if he does make fouls that it can waste some time for your team if you're a goal behind.

If he makes so many fouls and only gets booked that much it also means he knows how to get away with niggly tackles and such.
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That may be a fair point, I was under the impression he generally committed fouls all over the pitch but I'm sure you've seen more of him than that. I just think he was tailor made for an Everton side who Moyes got the best out of in recent seasons and his ability to add physical presence with the ability of Baines, Miralles and Pienaar was important. With all due respect, that's not something we'll necessarily need more than a few times a season due to the obvious difference in quality/quantity of our attackers.

He'd surely play a deeper and less effective role in CM were he to come here. I'd be incredibly disappointed if we shifted out the likes of Nani, Rooney and Kagawa to accommodate him. I can't really see the point in it.
 
Steven Seagull said:
It's not complete bullshit though I'm afraid. That's one of his main attributes and he uses it very well to be fair to him. He hasn't opened games up with extraordinary vision, he hasn't knitted together Evertons attack with 1-2's, he hasn't regularly shown bits of skill to create space for runners as much as a £25m attacking player should be. It's been his hold up play and physical presence more often that not which has caught the eye. I don't see how anybody can deny it.

As far as him playing in a deeper role is concerned, I don't think he's a good enough passer, he fouls too much and I've not really see him start off attacks or shown any playmaking abilities. So what are we left with? A big physical presence who's half decent in midfield for £25m. The best we can hope for is him breaking up play occasionally and deferring to Carrick when he's in good form and providing late runs into the box a la Lampard. I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough for a first team regular at club with our aspirations, imo
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That's more or less my issues with him. He looks like a pretty good central midfield player but I don't think you could say he was anything special there, even if he was we haven't seen enough of him in that role in recent times. What's driving his price is his performances higher up the pitch where he has done well for Everton. But that's not the role we need him for.

If we are thinking of spending over 20m on him then you'd have to think there must be other midfielders about for similar prices, who have actually been playing a deeper role in the last season or two and doing it well. I'd rather try and take a punt on getting Song, who'd most likely be cheaper.

I wouldn't mind Fellaini if he came, I think he has something to offer, but I don't think we should be thinking of spending upwards of £20mil for him when he's not done much to justify that price tag in the role we need him for.
 
Backrow Singer said:
That's going to be the main issue. Moyes obviously has a great deal of respect for Everton Football Club, and the fans especially. Not sure he will go straight in there and attempt to negotiate a deal for there best players. And that's fair enough in my opinion.
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That never really seems to matter because time and time again you see managers raiding their former clubs for their favourite players.
 
Irwynwastheking said:
That never really seems to matter because time and time again you see managers raiding their former clubs for their favourite players.
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Not many have been at the club for as long as Moyes has though. The relationship he has with the club and the fans is obviously special to him, and is one that I expect he will want to keep for a while. Would be a great signing for us though, and would give us pretty much everything we have been lacking in the midfield department. Versatile to.
 
SilentWitness said:
Isn't it fairly obvious why he's committing fouls up the pitch? If you've watched us our pressing in the final third has been super, and Fellaini is a big part of this as he's excellent at getting the opposition to make mistakes.

Is it bad that he's making tackles/attempting tackles high up the pitch? Yes and no.
Yes, as it means the teams aren't able to build a counter attack, or string a couple of passes around the back 4. It also means that when he wins the ball we are in a great position to threaten/score.

No, as it means if he does make fouls that it can waste some time for your team if you're a goal behind.

If he makes so many fouls and only gets booked that much it also means he knows how to get away with niggly tackles and such.
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He wouldn't be playing high up the pitch for us, do you honestly believe he is good enough and has the attributes to play as a defensive midfielder for Manchester United?
 
Irwynwastheking said:
Why do you care about the money? It's not like it's scarce!
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Well it's more if we're thinking of spending £20+mil on him than surely there are other players affordable at those prices, or not much more. Players who have actually been playing well enough in a deeper role to justify that price.
 
lem8sh said:
He wouldn't be playing high up the pitch for us, do you honestly believe he is good enough and has the attributes to play as a defensive midfielder for Manchester United?
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Considering he was the best defensive midfielder in the league in the season of 2011/2012, yes.
 
He would be a good addition if we got him but you can't helper but feel we should be going after better players. He's actually artery clever player contrary to the perception here. He thinks quickly and would help rather than hamper our fluidity, and obviously provide a huge presence. I'm just not sure he's got the technical ability we need. Like a lot of voices I've heard I'd love a fellaini plus a technical cm combination.
 
lem8sh said:
He couldn't play as defensive midfield though could he? Is he quick? No. Disciplined? No. Good passer of the ball under pressure. Debatable. Good tackler? No. Tall and strong? Check, lets buy him so. Imagine a nifty offensive midfielder ala Mata or Hazard running at Fellaini.
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With those requirements - Scholes would suck as well. He was not quick, not that disciplined and a horrible tackler...

Still he seemed to do ok
 
Options though. Best thing about United last year for me was how adaptable we were. Fellini would give us another option, and if partnered well, an effective one at that.
 
SilentWitness said:
Isn't it fairly obvious why he's committing fouls up the pitch? If you've watched us our pressing in the final third has been super, and Fellaini is a big part of this as he's excellent at getting the opposition to make mistakes.

Is it bad that he's making tackles/attempting tackles high up the pitch? Yes and no.
Yes, as it means the teams aren't able to build a counter attack, or string a couple of passes around the back 4. It also means that when he wins the ball we are in a great position to threaten/score.

No, as it means if he does make fouls that it can waste some time for your team if you're a goal behind.

If he makes so many fouls and only gets booked that much it also means he knows how to get away with niggly tackles and such.
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You clearly hold these qualities in high regard but I cant say they're qualities I've ever coveted in a player. I'm sure you'll be happy to hold on to him.
 
Ash_G said:
Well it's more if we're thinking of spending £20+mil on him than surely there are other players affordable at those prices, or not much more. Players who have actually been playing well enough in a deeper role to justify that price.
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Money is all relative to who wants to spend and who wants to sell. I honestly couldn't give a shit how much of the Glaziers money we spend on players. The club is cash rich at the moment so spread the wealth I say!
 
LR7 said:
You clearly hold these qualities in high regard but I cant say they're qualities I've ever coveted in a player. I'm sure you'll be happy to hold on to him.
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Thats very harsh. They're qualities that are necessary to use when you're not a team that tends to dominate like united.
 
lem8sh said:
No he wasn't, Song for one was better. Not that it matters that's a different argument.
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Song wasn't really much of a defensive midfielder that season actually. He was playmaking and defensive, with the emphasis on playmaking hampering his defensive duties at times. Fellaini was racking up much better defensive stats than him. His successful tackles were the highest within the league as were his interceptions.

LR7 said:
You clearly hold these qualities in high regard but I cant say they're qualities I've ever coveted in a player. I'm sure you'll be happy to hold on to him.
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I was replying to you as to why he fouls and how he fouls. Do i hold them in a high regard? Not really, but it can be bloody useful sometimes.
 
TheReligion said:
I've included Kagawa and Rooney, even though Rooney plays further forward, to give everyone an idea of his figures this season at a club that statistically has fewer chances and less of the ball than United.

Not sure how anyone can say he wouldn't improve us, I really can't.
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That's all well and good, and clearly he does a pretty good job for Everton playing off the front man, but that isn't where he'd play for us, at least I hope not, so what do his stats playing in a position we'd never play him in tell us? Compare him with our other midfielders when he plays the same position they do, not when he plays as a striker.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Thats very harsh. They're qualities that are necessary to use when you're not a team that tends to dominate like united.
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I didn't mean to be harsh. I've just never desired a player due to his ability to get away with niggly fouls and fouling people to waste time. They're things that annoy me. They're not things I like and even an Everton fan is admitting he does them a lot.

I agree with your last line and that's why I think he's best off staying there.
 
Striker10 said:
Some people really don't rate him. They might come up with this name or that name. I bet in the late nineties when we were after Yorke and Kluivert the majority would have preferred the latter. The fact is, until someone pulls the shirt on, we simply don't know. He's a good player.
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That's exactly that. Yorke looked a really good player for Aston Villa. He looked world class for us. You never know how good a player will be once he needs to make the step up. Some will simply enjoy having better team mates and improve, others may struggle.

Fellaini has been a very good player for Everton. The role he had in at least some of the matches I've seen him leaves a doubt because what he showed there is now what we need. But he does have attributes that we do need. Whether he can make the step up, is something that will always be in doubt until he's given the chance.
 
SilentWitness said:
Isn't it fairly obvious why he's committing fouls up the pitch? If you've watched us our pressing in the final third has been super, and Fellaini is a big part of this as he's excellent at getting the opposition to make mistakes.

Is it bad that he's making tackles/attempting tackles high up the pitch? Yes and no.
Yes, as it means the teams aren't able to build a counter attack, or string a couple of passes around the back 4. It also means that when he wins the ball we are in a great position to threaten/score.

No, as it means if he does make fouls that it can waste some time for your team if you're a goal behind.

If he makes so many fouls and only gets booked that much it also means he knows how to get away with niggly tackles and such.
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Yes, and he does all that from a position he'd never play for us.
 
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