Think it would be the other way around, Carrick would screen and dictate the game from deep, whilst Fellaini would be the one closing down/pushing slightly further up.
Fellaini
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Think it would be the other way around, Carrick would screen and dictate the game from deep, whilst Fellaini would be the one closing down/pushing slightly further up.
I think that if we assume we arent going to be getting a really, really top tier midfielder like a Wilshere or Fabregas (which is highly unlikely), and that we are more likely to splash the big bucks on a winger and/or striker (assuming Rooney leaves), Fellaini isnt a bad option.
He isnt our massive marquee signing - that will hopefully be Bale or Ronaldo (in muppet land), getting someone like Fellaini alongside that isnt a bad set of summer dealings at all. IF we convinced Nani to stay, we could be lining up something like;
--------Carrick --- Fellaini
Nani -------- Kagawa--------Bale
---------------RVP
That is a bloody strong lineup. Plenty of interchanging from the 3 behind RvP, a top quality striker and then two defensively sound CMs -Carrick being more the playmaker, and Fellaini the muscle/box to box one.
I dont rate Fellaini that highly, but he would fit in absolutely fine with that sort of setup.
He isnt our massive marquee signing - that will hopefully be Bale or Ronaldo (in muppet land), getting someone like Fellaini alongside that isnt a bad set of summer dealings at all. IF we convinced Nani to stay, we could be lining up something like;
--------Carrick --- Fellaini
Nani -------- Kagawa--------Bale
---------------RVP
That is a bloody strong lineup. Plenty of interchanging from the 3 behind RvP, a top quality striker and then two defensively sound CMs -Carrick being more the playmaker, and Fellaini the muscle/box to box one.
I dont rate Fellaini that highly, but he would fit in absolutely fine with that sort of setup.
I didn't see the game but looking at who scored like you did, the rating system seems to be odd and largely a load of fecking bollocks.
Fellaini had 3 shots to Akes 1.
1 shot on target to his 0.
3 key passes to his 1.
94% pass success to his 84%.
2 aerial duels won to his 1.
83 touches to his 61.
Both with 3 tackles.
Ake with 1 more interception.
Fellaini with 5 clearances to 1.
Seriously, how the heck would the "stats" make those ratings? Doesn't make any sense to me.
Whoscored is shite.
Fellaini's a very good player... in a specific system.
I'm seeing the quotes that his proper position is defensive midfield, but I don't see him filling that role adequately at United. Simply, his use of the ball is no where near good enough. I also think he's a pressure inducing player in terms of him giving away fouls in dangerous areas. I just feel that United should be looking at better players in this area - we need someone better on the ball and someone with a better turn of pace.
He's really excelled in the number 10 role for Everton, but that's because they're more direct than us.
He's just not suited to our team. If we were going to take an attacker from Everton, I'd want Mirallas.
I'm seeing the quotes that his proper position is defensive midfield, but I don't see him filling that role adequately at United. Simply, his use of the ball is no where near good enough. I also think he's a pressure inducing player in terms of him giving away fouls in dangerous areas. I just feel that United should be looking at better players in this area - we need someone better on the ball and someone with a better turn of pace.
He's really excelled in the number 10 role for Everton, but that's because they're more direct than us.
He's just not suited to our team. If we were going to take an attacker from Everton, I'd want Mirallas.
Carrick's not either. Or rather, he doesn't have great acceleration. But, the thing is, you don't need to be lightning in that area of the pitch.
A United midfielder needs to be quality in possession first and foremost - I don't think Fellaini is anywhere near good enough in that regard.
He's been around for ages, but he's still only 25. I really think he's got an upside as a cm. His control and is fine, I'd say better than the likes of Gattuso and Mascherano who have had good careers at top clubs. He definitely wouldn't play number 10 for us (I hope), that would be a ridiculous thing to do.
I've seen a lot more of him this season than I had previously. He's okay, but if we're going to sign a mid-tier player like him I think there are others who would fit into our team better. Personally I'd prefer someone like McCarthy, who is mid-tier as well but would suit our style of play more.
Fellaini is definitely better than McCarthy at the moment, like him but just don't think he's got that x-factor, at least at the moment. Similar player to Cleverly and Cleverly is also better.
Think he'd be best going to an Everton/West Ham/Liverpool and seeing if he can push on from there.
The way football is going at the very top level, with an increasing emphasis on a pressing game, your central midfielders need to be able to handle the ball under pressure and use it quickly. I just don't see a place for someone like Fellaini at the very top level. Granted, he's got scope for improvement, but is he ever going to be the right sort of player for United?
Personally, I feel too much is made of a need for "bite" in our midfield. It's just not the United way. I'm not saying that we can't have a hard-as-nails midfielder, but that should be an afterthought, not the main reference point.
There's just something about him, that edge, I imagine he would be absolutely horrible to play against. Sometimes you need that, make the opponent scared to play his own game.
I think there was a stat from two seasons ago (when he played in midfield) that he only lost the ball 33 times all season. It's in this thread somewhere.
Personally I think McCarthy is better than Cleverly, he'd play more than him if he was here, I think. Fellaini might be better at the moment but McCarthy is a few years younger and would suit our team more. I don't agree with the notion that we need someone with "bite", I'd prefer a silkier player like McCarthy. I'm sure there are stats that suggest that Fellaini is better on the ball than some are giving him credit for, but I've seen enough of him to know his quality on the ball would frustrate us if he was here. I just don't see him as a Manchester United player.
It's not just about that though. Someone like Scott Parker regularly posts good pass completion stats. But these sorts of limited players are what I like to call move-ruiners: they take too long to move the ball on, take three touches when one or two would suffice, etc. I also don't know how well Fellaini would do against a pressing game - I suspect he'd get mugged time and again, because he's not agile enough.
He can handle the ball under pressue, he's been one of the best players in the league playing as a number 10 where space is even more restricted.
But regardless, he would never be the playmaker in our team which would be Carrick. He's more than good enough on the ball to play the secondary box to box role, it's not as if he's shite at football.
Quite. He lacks finesse and quickness of thought of top midfielders. United traditionally don't play at being spoilers which Fallaini seems best suited.
I disagree. He's played in a side who are very direct, and Fellaini has been very much a focal point for their play - he's very good at holding the ball up and bringing others into the play with his back to goal. I haven't seen him play as a 10 who plays intricate football facing the opposition goal.
That wasn't just pass completion, it was through being tackled too. It seems almost impossible to get the ball off him.
Finesse isn't his game in any way and that isn't what we would sign him for, it doesn't matter that he doesn't have it. You don't need finesse to add something to the team.
If we brought him in to partner Carrick it would be to toughen up our midfield defensively and make it hard to play through, an example would be that Fuham game at OT at the beginning of the season, where Dembele just continually walked through our midfield. As has been said, he's also not a shit footballer like some make out.
I don't dispute that, but I feel my point about his use of the ball still stands. I'm not sure he'd be conducive to us playing free flowing football. United should always be looking for a deep lying playmaker.
Look at Toure at City. He's a physical specimen, but he also has a finesse to his play when he gets on the ball. Fellaini, in comparison, is a downgrade IMO.
We have one - Carrick
You don't need two starting at the same time at all. It also looks like Kagwa will be playing in the hole next season (assuming Rooney leaves) so you have two fantastic playmakers in the centre. Fellaini would be there to do a completely different job.
No question there mate, Toure was immense last season. This seasons he's been pretty mehh though so I'm not that arsed about him, with his wages and fitness issues as well, he irritates me
But yeah I agree he is much better than Fellaini, but he was regarded as one of the best CM's in the world so it's not a huge criticism of Fellaini to say he's behind Yaya. He could become better as well, he's only 25 and moving to a big club will bring him on further.
I worry about what would happen if Carrick was injured for any length of time.
Also, Carrick and Scholes was a brilliant combination for us for a good while. I think United should always look for a good ball player in CM first and foremost. Just my stylistic preference.
Totally agree that Toure has been below par this season. My point was more about his skill set. Compared to Fellaini, Toure is so much more nuanced; he can play as a deep lying metronome, he can play as a 10, making killer passes and scoring goals, and he can sprint the length of the pitch with the ball, leaving a trail of destruction. In comparison, I don't see what Fellaini's real qualities are to be honest.
I also don't doubt that Fellaini has scope for improvement, but I just don't think he's ever going to be a United-style player. For me, Dembele was the one we let slip through the net - think he was an absolute bargain.
He protects the ball through strength rather than agility. Its OK to have both in your team. In the deeper CM role his job is not to play delightful through balls to Carrick, his job would be as a box-to-box midfielder who would lay the ball off to the likes of Kagawa or Carrick who will play the defense splitting balls.
Again, we would have a playmaker alongside him in Carrick, if anything it would be having another playmaker that would unbalance the team.
People seem to still have this vision of our team as the 2008 team relying on swift counterattacks. The truth is we no longer tend to play like that because other teams tend to just shut up shop against us. We use a built up style of play, and having a player in the middle of the park who has the strength to shield and protect the ball under pressure, sometimes against 2-3 opponents, is a useful player to have.
edit: To clarify, im not even a huge fan of Fellaini, but I think if we splashed out on a top quality winger this summer, we could do far, far worse than bringing in Fellaini as well. I cant think of another midfielder we could bring in who would be as effective and wouldnt cost us a lot more.
You need to be more agile than Fellaini as a deep lying midfielder for a top side, in my opinion. You need to be able to sort your feet out quickly and keep the ball moving seamlessly. I just don't see it with Fellaini. As I said earlier, I understand that he is good at shielding the ball, but we need someone who can keep the ball moving and help us keep the flow to our game. We've already had issues this season with our game being disjointed at times - I just don't see how Fellaini would improve that.
I haven't seen Strootman, but he's been linked and, from descriptions, he seems as though he'd be a better fit stylistically.
As I say though, that's all based on second hand words from people more in the know than me.
I would be underwhelmed if, having ignored CM for so long, we finally went into the market and got Fellaini.
I think you are exaggerating - any Premier League footballer should be capable of bringing a ball under control pretty quickly, and Fellaini is no exception. Again, in the role he has been playing at Everton his strength has been his ability to control the ball (usually on his chest, admittedly), take it down and shield it.
But I also dont think his function would be simply a "deep lying midfielder" for us. He would be a box to box player. He is capable of making surging runs forward and carrying the ball. He hasnt done that as much this season as he has been playing higher up the pitch for Everton, but go back a year or two and he was doing it plenty.
edit again:
To give an idea (and im not a fan of Youtube clips, but it highlights the point here), watch some of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZFuxC1bdUk
Again, the role he has been deployed in this season has been a limited one, and that has given rise to the opinion that he is simply a very limited player. That is not the case. He is never going to be a slick agile playmaker, but he easily has the ball skills to play a CM role effectively. I would rate him ahead of Fletcher in pretty much every area, for example, and the former was a very valuable player for us (and maybe will be again, but unfortunately unlikely)
This.
Well he was booked and Ake wasnt, that'll be part of it. He gave the ball away 1 more time than Ake. These are two things that are a big deal for defensive midfielders, key passes and shots less so even if those are nice on top of the core things for the role.
Btw wasnt trying to suggest "oh Ake was rated a few points above Fellaini in this game he must have played better" just thought I'd point it out that he was rated above, so that those who watched the game could tell what actually happened. Obviously you cant recreate the story from a few ratings
Fellaini has no such xfactor in midfield either. Its up front he makes things happen.
Completely the opposite of this season then
I havent seen Strootman either so we are in the same boat there, and I accept your point about our central midfield having been the weak spot for years and crying out for some big signings.
If Carrick hadnt had such a great season, and Cleverley hadnt shown some promising signs, I would entirely agree and I expect the 'caf would be screaming out for Wilshere rather than Bale.
As it stands, our wingers have been the weakness this season and therefore Bale is the name on the lips of the United fans. Either way, it is very unlikely that we are going to splash out splurge on two high profile signings such as Wilshere or Bale. If we are operating under the assumption (which for purposes of this debate, we are) that our big signing will be the winger rather than the CM, I think Fellaini is a very suitable mid-range signing.
If on the other hand, Moyes has decided that CM is the absolute #1 priority this summer, I would expect us to go for a higher calibre of playing than Fellaini, at the cost of not signing a world class winger.
Either way, back on the subject of Fellaini I stand by what I said and urge you to check the video I posted previously - his key strengths are his strength, aerial ability, shielding the ball etc, but he is no slouch and his all round game is good. It isnt great, but for the role we would employ him in, alongside Carrick/Cleverley, he would do the job. On the things he is actually good at (listed above) he is one of, if not the best player in the league. Having another player who is such a threat from set pieces and corners is always useful, his workrate and fitness are good and he would provide the sort of steel in midfield that we have lacked since Fletcher was in good form. Even then I would rate Fellaini's all round game higher than Fletcher, and Darren was an excellent player for us by all accounts.
No not really. It's much harder to keep the ball up top though.
He's given it away the 2nd most of all players in the league this season behind only Suarez, with an average of 4.9 times tackled or given away with a pass to Suarez' 5.2. So if he never gives the ball away in midfield, it must be the opposite to this season
I don't know where does this quality in possession comes from. We do not exactly play possession football do we.
I'm on the fence when it comes to Fellaini, not sure if he'd fit into this united team? But one can't argue tho that he could be the midfield enforcer/powerhouse we have lacked in recent years
I pretty much agree with all your posts in here but these two in particular, I think we need a CM who plays ahead of Carrick on the pitch the way Scholes did in their best season together and Giggs did in 2011, even the brief glimpses we have seen of Anderson with Carrick I think we can see how well that type of CM would work alongside his deep lying screener role.
All those partners are slightly different in how they execute the more attacking side of midfield play, but all allow Carrick to focus on his best asset which is protecting the back 4, and they all gave him an out ball once he'd won it. To me Fellaini is an expensive and inferior version of Carrick as opposed to an ideal partner for him.
Yes we dont play possession football like Barca do but we still hold a majority of the possession, say 55-60%, most of our games.
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