Fellaini

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Anyway, regarding Baines, I posted in the Twitter thread in response to someone saying he was not needed as he is just a minimal upgrade on Evra, but the post was deleted (and me subsequently banned!)

In anycase, I think that people overlook the full-back position or at least oversimplify the importance of the role. Personally, I think Baines has the abillity to transform our entire team. The fact that his productivity is the equal of most decent wingers from a full-back area allows us greater flexibility in the requirements we have from the person who lines up in front of him. It has been said many times that Moyes prefers to play a creative midfielder on the left, and the delivery of Baines meant that Pienaar could just focus on doing his thing at Everton. The pair of them were often referred to as the best left-side in the League, and it's all about balance.

Playing Baines behind Shinji, for example, allows Shinji to operate centrally (or Rooney even) and still have a consistent quality of supply from left. Similarly to how a Dani Alves totally transforms Barca's team, I think Baines could do a similar job for us, and I think he'd be a clear upgrade on Evra. I know he has put in a couple of good crosses that have led to goals (Wigan and Swansea) this season, but the amount of times he finds himself in a great position and can't get it off the ground is considerable.
 
Odd bid considering its what Everton actually paid for him? And the Baines part is just as odd considering they've already rejected the same/a very close bid.

I can definitely see why we've waited to do this, but if it leads to Fellaini handing in a transfer request and becoming unsettled I'm certainly not proud of it; even though I will be delighted to see us add a new midfielder to the squad if the move does materialise.


Given that Everton have been comfortable to spend without selling so far, I'm sure they're in no desperate need for money unless they have more signings planned, which doesn't seem to be the case. Everton are in a good position here, it'll be player power which dictates any movement. Baines is yet to go that way..
 
About the transfer clause. Players usually go for less than what their transfer clause suggests. The idea of having a transfer clause is also beneficial for the club, so normally the amount is set quite high.
There are two fairly obvious reasons for not signing fellaini up earlier:
1. We never wanted to pay 23.5 for him. So there was no rush.
2. We wanted to try for other players, like fabregas. We tried too.

One more thing, one one hand so many people are talking about not trying for players like Gundogan while on the other they criticize United for going to such out of reach players like Fabregas. Do people think it will be easy for us to get Gundogan? Especially after Dortmund lost Goetze, and they did well in the UCL and also are contenders for the Bundesliga title. Also after how Kagawa is yet to settle down. Not a great example being set for Dortmund players.
 
As for Fellaini, he'd also be a massive (no pun) addition to us at both ends of the pitch, although like many, I'd rather a more creative midfielder brought in too.
 
KM said:
A manager being a hypocrite then, who'd have thunk it?
:eek:
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I know eh?! But from a manager who spent 10 years at a club and did nothing but complain about shit offers you'd expect something a little more than a horrendous offer.
 
We haven't had a really nasty cnut in our midfield since the days of Keano.

Fellaini would give us that nasty bastard grit that we've lacked with Carrick, Cleverley, Andrrson and even Scholes in recent years.

Look at the way he bullied our team last season. He was virtually unplayable (that isn't an overstatement) during that first game of the season.

Signing him and Fabregas would have been a perfect summer in regard of what we actually need.
 
Spiersey said:
I know eh?! But from a manager who spent 10 years at a club and did nothing but complain about shit offers you'd expect something a little more than a horrendous offer.
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Horrendous offer is a bit of over-statement.
 
Rozay said:
Anyway, regarding Baines, I posted in the Twitter thread in response to someone saying he was not needed as he is just a minimal upgrade on Evra, but the post was deleted (and me subsequently banned!)

In anycase, I think that people overlook the full-back position or at least oversimplify the importance of the role. Personally, I think Baines has the abillity to transform our entire team. The fact that his productivity is the equal of most decent wingers from a full-back area allows us greater flexibility in the requirements we have from the person who lines up in front of him. It has been said many times that Moyes prefers to play a creative midfielder on the left, and the delivery of Baines meant that Pienaar could just focus on doing his thing at Everton. The pair of them were often referred to as the best left-side in the League, and it's all about balance.

Playing Baines behind Shinji, for example, allows Shinji to operate centrally (or Rooney even) and still have a consistent quality of supply from left. Similarly to how a Dani Alves totally transforms Barca's team, I think Baines could do a similar job for us, and I think he'd be a clear upgrade on Evra. I know he has put in a couple of good crosses that have led to goals (Wigan and Swansea) this season, but the amount of times he finds himself in a great position and can't get it off the ground is considerable.
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Good points.

And if you are going to play that sort of system you need a solid CM that is strong defensively. The obvious worry is that Fellaini's passing ability. Is it good enough for United?
 
Rozay said:
Anyway, regarding Baines, I posted in the Twitter thread in response to someone saying he was not needed as he is just a minimal upgrade on Evra, but the post was deleted (and me subsequently banned!)

In anycase, I think that people overlook the full-back position or at least oversimplify the importance of the role. Personally, I think Baines has the abillity to transform our entire team. The fact that his productivity is the equal of most decent wingers from a full-back area allows us greater flexibility in the requirements we have from the person who lines up in front of him. It has been said many times that Moyes prefers to play a creative midfielder on the left, and the delivery of Baines meant that Pienaar could just focus on doing his thing at Everton. The pair of them were often referred to as the best left-side in the League, and it's all about balance.

Playing Baines behind Shinji, for example, allows Shinji to operate centrally (or Rooney even) and still have a consistent quality of supply from left. Similarly to how a Dani Alves totally transforms Barca's team, I think Baines could do a similar job for us, and I think he'd be a clear upgrade on Evra. I know he has put in a couple of good crosses that have led to goals (Wigan and Swansea) this season, but the amount of times he finds himself in a great position and can't get it off the ground is considerable.
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Top post.
Especially the last Para. I remember posting a long time back. That we might have players like Kagawa, Rooney, Welbeck, Young playing on the left. In that case Baines is a really good option to have. Evra does well to get into great positions, but his final ball is weak. He is limited to a certain extent in that regards. Baines will help a lot. This is not a criticism towards Evra just an attempt at highlighting the importance of Baines.

Should we discuss this in the baines thread?
 
QuackQuack said:
Well if majority of remember us signing Ronaldo then I am sure they will remember Kleberson.
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This wasn't meant to be taken with any offense mate, I just generally assumed that the majority of posters were only young lads. There are plenty of us older farts hovering about but I just thought that most posters were younger :-)
 
RedRover said:
EVen if you consider Ashley Cole a better player (which I personally dont) he's one of the best left backs in World Football. I've watched a lot of Everton over the last few years and Baines has been their best player - a real threat going forward, and in my opinion a player who would look even better in a better side where he'd get more space. I think he deserves a chance at a top club.

He may not be a vital addition but I think he's better than Evra, as well as clearly being a favourite of Moyes - I dont think it would do Moyes any harm having a player or two he knows well and trusts. He's a player who can come in and hit the ground running.
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I don't doubt that he's a good player, I think he is but I think he's overpriced, I can't think of many fullbacks that go for £15m certainly not 28/29 year old ones with no CL experience. Moyes has brought in a lot of staff with him I don't think he'd particularly need players from his old club and you shouldn't forget Evra seems to be a big presence in the dressing room.

Like I said if Evra wanted out then Baines is a good shout although overpriced, but as there's no suggestion he does want to leave I don't think that Baines brings that much more to the table, if anything, to justify it.
 
ryan_forlan said:
Top post.
Especially the last Para. I remember posting a long time back. That we might have players like Kagawa, Rooney, Welbeck, Young playing on the left. In that case Baines is a really good option to have. Evra does well to get into great positions, but his final ball is weak. He is limited to a certain extent in that regards. Baines will help a lot. This is not a criticism towards Evra just an attempt at highlighting the importance of Baines.

Should we discuss this in the baines thread?
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Would probably be wise, don't want another thread ban!
 
One question about Fellaini.
Does anyone remember the run Carrick made from around the right wing into the box in the swansea game(first half). He ran into some defenders while trying to dribble shoot?
Obviously Carrick will not be doing much of that. It is just not Cleveley's style either. Ando just does not know how to shoot(mostly). Does Fellaini do that? Did he ever do such a thing when he used to play CM for everton?
 
Garethw said:
This wasn't meant to be taken with any offense mate, I just generally assumed that the majority of posters were only young lads. There are plenty of us older farts hovering about but I just thought that most posters were younger :-)
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how old does one have to be to get the title of an Old Fart?
 
I'd honestly rather sign no one than Fellaini, he's great where Everton played him last season but as an out and out central midfielder we should be aiming a lot higher.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
And what about when we need our left back to do more then cross a ball or take a set-peice? Like play quick interchanges with our wingers/midfielders, make well timed runs in behind their marker, or just generally dribble/drive the ball at their marker/defence? You know... things that full backs actually tend to do more then simply cross a ball?

Or does "simple comprehension" only stretch as far as crossing a ball... because you're right, that is an incredibly simple outlook on things.
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Have you watched Everton play the last couple of years? There isn't much between the two of them but I was just highlighting a few areas in which Baines is superior. Do you not think Baines can play a give and go? How do you think he gets into crossing positions in the first place?

I also didn't realise that dribbling was so important for a full back. I guess I should have realised though what with the likes of Neville, Irwin, Maldini, Thuram, and A. Cole building their careers around their well renowned dribbling abilities. It's a bonus if anything, Evra has just spoiled us in that respect.
 
I'm not sure I follow the narrative about the offer being ridiculous? We can offer whatever the hell we want, and they in turn can reject it. Chelsea offered £20m for Wayne Rooney, we rejected and said you'll need to double it to even stand a chance. Yet we do the same and apparently Woodwood is a dickhead and we're being disrespectful.

I beginning to really dislike the majority of fans of the team I support.

Anyway, I think he'd be a good addition to the team, adds depth and a bit of bite in the midfield. Think he's underrated in a attacking sense too. He's a capable footballer and would get better with the stop up in quality at United.

Oh and while Baines is a great player, I don't think he's a player we need really. Will add quality and depth but I don't think he's a huge upgrade on Evra if at all.

Baines' quality in the final third might prove advantageous for the likes of RvP and Hernandez though. Rooney too if the fecker stays.
 
If there is one person in the world who is in a position to judge whether Fellaini is good enough for Manchester United, it's David Moyes.

He saw him everyday at Everton, and he's seen our midfielders up close now as well. He obviously thinks Fellaini is good enough for our level.

Same goes for Baines.
 
If we sign Baines and keep Rooney we will have more Scousers in our first team than Liverpool.
 
charlenefan said:
I'd honestly rather sign no one than Fellaini, he's great where Everton played him last season but as an out and out central midfielder we should be aiming a lot higher.
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I remember hearing the same arguments when we signed Carrick. Fellaini has many excellent attributes but we're not buying the finished article. He should be coming to us to improve as a player. He'll be a cult hero here if he signs. He's a better player than Darren Fletcher and we'd all love a fully fit Fletcher right now. Is Fellaini worth £20m? Probably not but we'll have to pay at least that if we want him.
 
Fellaini and Carrick as a midfield duo is far better than anything we currently have. For that reason alone, we should get him signed. He'll add some much needed steel to our midfield, too.
 
Trigg said:
I'm not sure I follow the narrative about the offer being ridiculous? We can offer whatever the hell we want, and they in turn can reject it. Chelsea offered £20m for Wayne Rooney, we rejected and said you'll need to double it to even stand a chance. Yet we do the same and apparently Woodwood is a dickhead and we're being disrespectful.

I beginning to really dislike the majority of fans of the team I support.

Anyway, I think he'd be a good addition to the team, adds depth and a bit of bite in the midfield. Think he's underrated in a attacking sense too. He's a capable footballer and would get better with the stop up in quality at United.
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It has nothing to do with what we're entitled to do, does it? It's more the fact we're bidding a price for players that even we, as people with no inside information, know will be rejected. If that's what we value the players at then fine, but if so, we'll need to move on and find new targets.
 
nahealai said:
Fellaini and Carrick as a midfield duo is far better than anything we currently have. For that reason alone, we should get him signed. He'll add some much needed steel to our midfield, too.
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Does no one love Cleverley anymore? :(
 
kps88 said:
If there is one person in the world who is in a position to judge whether Fellaini is good enough for Manchester United, it's David Moyes.

He saw him everyday at Everton, and he's seen our midfielders up close now as well. He obviously thinks Fellaini is good enough for our level.

Same goes for Baines.
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I don't think anyone doubts Fellaini isn't an improvement on Clev/Ando/Jones in the middle but whether he is really worth the price touted especially given he's barely played there in the past few seasons and that there aren't any other better prospects out there.
 
Brophs said:
It has nothing to do with what we're entitled to do, does it? It's more the fact we're bidding a price for players that even we, as people with no inside information, know will be rejected. If that's what we value the players at then fine, but if so, we'll need to move on and find new targets.
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I'd love to do business with you. You always start low and go higher, not just go straight in with the number you have in mind.
 
The "story" on the BBC website has blatantly been written to say what Everton FC wanted it to say, despite not being a direct quote from them. Bizarre.
 
Care_de_Bobo said:
Have you watched Everton play the last couple of years? There isn't much between the two of them but I was just highlighting a few areas in which Baines is superior. Do you not think Baines can play a give and go? How do you think he gets into crossing positions in the first place?

I also didn't realise that dribbling was so important for a full back. I guess I should have realised though what with the likes of Neville, Irwin, Maldini, Thuram, and A. Cole building their careers around their well renowned dribbling abilities. It's a bonus if anything, Evra has just spoiled us in that respect.
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I do watch Everton, and you'll generally find that Baines looks to cross the ball (well) into the box at every possible opportunity, as opposed to working the ball to the byline/inside the area as Evra does - so yes, in that respect, Evra has clearly shown he is far better at linking up play then Baines is. His passing in general is much better then Baines - and stats back that up, whether it be short or nice lofted balls in behind the full-back, Evra is a better passer.

Also, if we have a full-back who is excellent at dribbling, and uses it very effectively as an attacking tool, then it should be brought into discussion when arguing the merits of both players - and it is very much an admirable quality amongst full-backs, even if it isn't essential - it's much more then simply "a bonus".
 
charlenefan said:
I'd honestly rather sign no one than Fellaini, he's great where Everton played him last season but as an out and out central midfielder we should be aiming a lot higher.
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Hmmm think that's ott in fairness. At the very least Fellaini is albeit, likely expensive, but good cover for Carrick, whom an injury too could wreck our season and can certainly give clev/ando more than a run for their money to play with him. I'd take Fellaini over no-one, but agree that he's no ideal.
 
Redfighter said:
I remember hearing the same arguments when we signed Carrick. Fellaini has many excellent attributes but we're not buying the finished article. He should be coming to us to improve as a player. He'll be a cult hero here if he signs. He's a better player than Darren Fletcher and we'd all love a fully fit Fletcher right now. Is Fellaini worth £20m? Probably not but we'll have to pay at least that if we want him.
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Good post, but for the part in bold. We paid 17m for Ashley Young. We paid 16m for Valencia. We paid somewhere around that for Jones. Why is Fellaini not worth 20?
 
Brophs said:
It has nothing to do with what we're entitled to do, does it? It's more the fact we're bidding a price for players that even we, as people with no inside information, know will be rejected. If that's what we value the players at then fine, but if so, we'll need to move on and find new targets.
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When you see the likes of me and Brophs getting tetchy due the lack of transfers you know it's serious.

feck sale Moles, get someone signed for feck sake, you big dickhead.
 
Fallaini and Carrick would be perfect to set up against Man City. I jus dont get the Fabregas chase to this and why business couldn't have been sorted months ago.
 
£12m for a 28 year old left back is a pretty decent fee, btw. It certainly isn't insulting.

If they don't sell him they will either get an offer for less money next year or wont get an offer at all.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
I do watch Everton, and you'll generally find that Baines looks to cross the ball (well) into the box at every possible opportunity, as opposed to working the ball to the byline/inside the area as Evra does - so yes, in that respect, Evra has clearly shown he is far better at linking up play then Baines is. His passing in general is much better then Baines - and stats back that up, whether it be short or nice lofted balls in behind the full-back, Evra is a better passer.

Also, if we have a full-back who is excellent at dribbling, and uses it very effectively as an attacking tool, then it should be brought into discussion when arguing the merits of both players - and it is very much an admirable quality amongst full-backs, even if it isn't essential - it's much more then simply "a bonus".
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Moyes tactics require the full back to get the ball in the box early. It's been noticeable from the play so far. Evra has put in more crosses than normal and we've not been too complicated around the area.

Evra is an excellent player, and I think a technically superior player to Baines, but his delivery from wide areas is poorer. That's why we are signing Baines. They can both play 30 games or more but I think Evra may well go back to France next summer. Signing Baines now ensures a seamless transition.
 
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