Fellaini (on his way) out? | Duncan Castles: Fellaini agrees new two year deal

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Class of 63 said:
Not suggesting that at all, far from it, but even our most successful sides '68, '94, '99 and '08 were quite prepared to go route one and often before we tried to play our normal game but there wasn't the snobbery around amongst the fanbase then as there is now about playing the United way, and only the United way.
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Every side mixes it up, even great sides i agree with that theres nothing wrong with it. Tough corners and goal kicks are hardly route one mate, but anyway. Nobody (or at least very few) will have a problem with the team mixing it up and playing the odd long ball during the course of a game. Just like Neville did in the game you were referring to.

But theres a vast difference between that and basically abandoning all other avenues of attack and pumping it long to Fellaini for 15-20 minutes in a game. I'm not so much against that from a 'United way' point of view, it's a part of it sure. But i'm mostly against it being used as a tactic because it's not very effective, it rarely ever works with Fellaini (or almost any other player) against packed defences when we are chasing games.
 
Amadaeus said:
That statistic must be misleading. From, what I have seen, Fellaini has been very effective whenever we use him as a target man; especially when we employ hoof ball tactics towards him.
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How can it be misleading mate come on?

You are saying he's good as a Plan B to bring on to turn games around. But those are the facts 1 goal and 1 assist, he has scored in other games (3 times/no assists) as a sub when we were drawing/losing but he was brought on early in a game due to injury or at half time when we weren't exactly desperately chasing a game.

Even including them if you like brings the average up to 1 goal/assist per season over 5 years when he's brought on in games we are losing/drawing. To me that doesn't scream an effective Plan B, Hernandez and Solskjaer probably did that and more every season.
 
stevoc said:
Well maybe i'm not as good at judging talent. But i would need more than 10 games to make my mind up about whether or not a young player is good enough for a top side. Never mind making a determination about what their best position will be and sticking to that opinion 10 years later despite them not playing much there.

Well you wouldn't have been much use as a scout for Bill Shankly then as they were expected to make a decision after 3 games, at least SAF and Wenger would have given you 20

There's a reason he's not getting a run there though mate. A succession of managers are not purposely playing a world class DM out of position, for reasons unknown. If he was good there Mourinho wouldn't have bought Matic, Van Gaal wouldn't have bought Schneiderlin. They would have played him there, at least regularly if not every game.

We don't know that, if Mourinho had been able to bring two strikers in he may have been more likely to play Fellaini deeper, and if memory serves LvG bought Schneiderlin to play alongside Fellaini, it was only injuries to all our strikers that forced LvG to play him further up field

Most United fans will have watched him on and off for 10 years, he joined Everton in 2008. They will have all watched him regularly for United for the last 5 years. 150+ games, i think it's safe to say the vast majority of United fans will have seen enough of him to form an opinion on his strengths and which position they think he's best in. They won't all be right, we all have our own opinion but it will be an informed opinion.

That wouldn't be the vast majority of United fans who for some reason can't see past the fact that Fellaini was a David Moyes signing would it ?

Nothing further to add your Honour


Yeah like you :p
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Well mate that's me out for now, but no doubt our paths will cross again in the "God isn't Fred a short-arse, maybe we should have kept Fellaini for some physical presence in midfield" thread, or maybe not ;)
 
stevoc said:
How can it be misleading mate come on?

You are saying he's good as a Plan B to bring on to turn games around. But those are the facts 1 goal and 1 assist, he has scored in other games (3 times/no assists) as a sub when we were drawing/losing but he was brought on early in a game due to injury or at half time when we weren't exactly desperately chasing a game.

Even including them if you like brings the average up to 1 goal/assist per season over 5 years when he's brought on in games we are losing/drawing. To me that doesn't scream an effective Plan B, Hernandez and Solskjaer probably did that and more every season.
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The way we utilized him is where the misunderstanding stems from. Fellaini for some strange reason is played as a midfielder. Rarely has he been utilized to his strength, which is an defensive foward as seen at his days at Everton. It is only few instances he has been utilized that way and he was at his most effective. So, this statistic does not reveal the whole narrative of the story of Maroune Fellaini.
 
I've never felt like I wanted to see the back of a player at United until Rooney's rapid decline. However when he left I felt mixed emotions as he had served the club well in the past.

When the club finally announce Fellaini has gone I will dance a feckin jig.

Harsh maybe, and Mourinho has got more out of the Belgian Hatstand than other managers.

He's never been United quality. His application is frenetic but pointless and he is a liability in his own half.

He makes his worst tackles in the worst locations and is not even effective when thrown on in last few minutes as a pinball flipper to knock a goal in.

Hernandez, Solskjaer, Sheringham, hell even Lingard have had more impact on games coming on as a sub.

He has had good performances I know, but ultimately probably unfairly he will always be tainted by the failures of Moyes and LVG.

Good luck MF and I hope you don't bang your elbows on the doorframe on your way out!
 
buchansleftleg said:
I've never felt like I wanted to see the back of a player at United until Rooney's rapid decline. However when he left I felt mixed emotions as he had served the club well in the past.

When the club finally announce Fellaini has gone I will dance a feckin jig.

Harsh maybe, and Mourinho has got more out of the Belgian Hatstand than other managers.

He's never been United quality. His application is frenetic but pointless and he is a liability in his own half.

He makes his worst tackles in the worst locations and is not even effective when thrown on in last few minutes as a pinball flipper to knock a goal in.

Hernandez, Solskjaer, Sheringham, hell even Lingard have had more impact on games coming on as a sub.

He has had good performances I know, but ultimately probably unfairly he will always be tainted by the failures of Moyes and LVG.

Good luck MF and I hope you don't bang your elbows on the doorframe on your way out!
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This sums up how I feel too.

He's been here for 5 years for feck sake. It's time to go!
 
Amadaeus said:
The way we utilized him is where the misunderstanding stems from. Fellaini for some strange reason is played as a midfielder. Rarely has he been utilized to his strength, which is an defensive foward as seen at his days at Everton. It is only few instances he has been utilized that way and he was at his most effective. So, this statistic does not reveal the whole narrative of the story of Maroune Fellaini.
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I'm not denying he can't be an effective player when used correctly, usually for United this has been high up the pitch in a midfield 3. He can't really play his best position for United which i think is behind the striker. He just isn't good enough of a player to be the main link between midfield and attack for a team like United, at another club like Everton he could be. There we agree.

But bringing him on in games we are chasing to lump balls up to is quantifiably not effective. So his effectiveness as a Plan B is not being underestimated, the opposite is in fact true. It is way overestimated to the point where people keep repeating it as fact when there is no basis for it. People really need to stop saying it.

He isn't a good plan B or C or whatever for a club like United. He could be a good plan A for a smaller club who will adapt their system and tactics to suit his strengths and get the best out of him.
 
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Class of 63 said:
Well mate that's me out for now, but no doubt our paths will cross again in the "God isn't Fred a short-arse, maybe we should have kept Fellaini for some physical presence in midfield" thread, or maybe not ;)
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I would lean towards maybe not mate, but if we do you'll probably be telling me you think Fred is being misused and he's really a right winger because you watched him back in the day playing for Internacional.

;) :p
 
Terrible signing for Arsenal. I don't really understand where's he even going to play there, Ozil will continue as number 10 role (and Mikhi can play there as alternative) and he's terrible as a DM.

N'zonzi would be much better signing.
 
That's the crucial thing.

You can argue we didn't use him in his best position maybe, whatever that is, but at the end of the day say we had done. Say we got the absolute best out of Fellaini.

It'd still be nowhere near good enough for Utd because he's simply not good enough. You don't cater your team for players as average as Fellaini to shine.
 
For as long as he's here I'll fear him being brought in to shield the defence late in a big game, only for him to run around like a headless chicken giving dangerous free kicks away. Time to go, big man.

I might actually die laughing if he signs for Arsenal. The reaction will be priceless, although I think he's a better player than Araenal fans realise.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
Once they realise they've signed a player who can't pass, can't tackle, can't shoot, and is slow as feck they'll be of a different opinion I'm sure.
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A few of them seem to think he'll be a good Giroud replacement. They really don't know what they're getting!
 
stevoc said:
I'm not denying he can't be an effective player when used correctly, usually for United this has been high up the pitch in a midfield 3. He can't really play his best position for United which i think is behind the striker. He just isn't good enough of a player to be the main link between midfield and attack for a team like United, at another club like Everton he could be. There we agree.

But bringing him on in games we are chasing to lump balls up to is quantifiably not effective. So his effectiveness as a Plan B is not being underestimated, the opposite is in fact true. It is way overestimated to the point where people keep repeating it as fact when there is no basis for it. People really need to stop saying it.

He isn't a good plan B or C or whatever for a club like United. He could be a good plan A for a smaller club who will adapt their system and tactics to suit his strengths and get the best out of him.
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I believe in the opposite.


It can definitely be an effective plan b because it it difficult for team to counter it due to Fellaini aerial presence in the box.
 
Ah.

Yeah Fellani wants to be more valued in a team so think the point of him staying at Man. United has long since passed and genuinely think it will be a good thing for you guys.
 
Amadaeus said:
I believe in the opposite.
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Based on one goal mate? Do you have any other examples?

Thats the first time he's came on late in a game we were chasing and actually scored. But we've brought him on in those scenarios loads of times in his 5 years at the club.

Amadaeus said:
It can definitely be an effective plan b because it it difficult for team to counter it due to Fellaini aerial presence in the box.
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Yeah once every 5 years, surely something being effective means it has to work regularly?
 
stevoc said:
Based on one goal mate? Do you have any other examples?

Thats the first time he's came on late in a game we were chasing and actually scored. But we've brought him on in those scenarios loads of times in his 5 years at the club.



Yeah once every 5 years, surely something being effective means it has to work regularly?
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I am not a religious follower of Fellaini, so I am not going waste time looking for more evidence online. However, I have been aware of this approach of “launching it into Fellaini in the box” working multiple times. If you watch United games, you should be aware of it to.
 
FootballHQ said:
Ah.

Yeah Fellani wants to be more valued in a team so think the point of him staying at Man. United has long since passed and genuinely think it will be a good thing for you guys.
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I'll drink a full bottle of scotch to that.

I bet Moyes is still laughing into his...
 
Amadaeus said:
I am not a religious follower of Fellaini, so I am not going waste time looking for more evidence online. However, I have been aware of this approach of “launching it into Fellaini in the box” working multiple times. If you watch United games, you should be aware of it to.
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You don't follow Fellaini, but you're telling "us" to be aware of what he does?

Okay, well Alli is a diving fecker, i don't really follow him, but without looking into it for statistics, I can still, say, he's a dirty diving little fecker.

Ps. I'd rather gauge my eyeballs out than watch spuds fc.
 
Amadaeus said:
I am not a religious follower of Fellaini, so I am not going waste time looking for more evidence online. However, I have been aware of this approach of “launching it into Fellaini in the box” working multiple times. If you watch United games, you should be aware of it to.
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Except it doesn't work multiple times mate continually repeating that it does without any basis won't change that. I am and was aware of this from watching him regularly for 4+ years. It never seemed effective to me, but a few months back i thought i could be wrong about it so i researched it confirm my feeling. And sure enough when i looked into the stats i discovered that i was right. 1 goal and 1 assist in 5 years of being used as a plan B.

So there's no need for you to waste time looking for evidence that isn't there mate. It's rarely ever worked and just isn't effective. Fact.
 
We get van Persie and Alexis. They get Silvestre, Welbeck and Fellaini. Seems fair.
 
stevoc said:
Except it doesn't work multiple times mate continually repeating that it does without any basis won't change that. I am and was aware of this from watching him regularly for 4+ years. It never seemed effective to me, but a few months back i thought i could be wrong about it so i researched it confirm my feeling. And sure enough when i looked into the stats i discovered that i was right. 1 goal and 1 assist in 5 years of being used as a plan B.

So there's no need for you to waste time looking for evidence that isn't there mate. It's rarely ever worked and just isn't effective. Fact.
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You can keep mentioning that stats, but it means nothing when Fellaini does not constantly operate in a position that he is most effective in. When he does operate higher up the pitch his goal tally is much higher than the one you mentioned. The fact that you think Fellaini is not a effective plan B, yet most of his managers has continued to utilize him as a target man when they are desperate, makes me question whether you think you know more than Mourinho, Van Gaal, or Moyes.

MIC_FIN said:
You don't follow Fellaini, but you're telling "us" to be aware of what he does?

Okay, well Alli is a diving fecker, i don't really follow him, but without looking into it for statistics, I can still, say, he's a dirty diving little fecker.

Ps. I'd rather gauge my eyeballs out than watch spuds fc.
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You don’t have to be a religious follower of a player in order to analyze his performance. You just have to watch the team he plays for. I have watched United games religiously and with regards to Fellaini, I was at the forefront of war when we signed him. If forum history goes that long, I remember arguing with Everton fan about this signing and everything I said then turned out to be true in regards to his effectiveness. Just like now, I notice without a doubt that Fellaini can be a nuisance toward defenders when he is deployed further up the pitch as a target forward. If you watch United, this should not be argumentative.
 
My Arsenal supporting mate thinks that Fellaini to Arsenal rumors are strategically developed by Arsenal board itself so that the fans will finally start loving Welbeck :D
 
I dont mind him. He is totally fine as a squad player.
If he wants more, he should probably leave.

I don't think anyone is going to miss him..

Him staying would have saved us some money.. getting someone new in might be expensive. But its not worth changing whatever wage structure we have left.
 
Am i the only one who thinks he will be important to them ? Arsenal lack player with Fellaini Attribute so much , he will be good for them
 
Amadaeus said:
You can keep mentioning that stats, but it means nothing when Fellaini does not constantly operate in a position that he is most effective in. When he does operate higher up the pitch his goal tally is much higher than the one you mentioned. The fact that you think Fellaini is not a effective plan B, yet most of his managers has continued to utilize him as a target man when they are desperate, makes me question whether you think you know more than Mourinho, Van Gaal, or Moyes.
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Mate what are you talking about, you said that Fellaini was an effective plan B that people underestimate. I pointed out that his stats just don't back that up and now you are moving the goal posts waffling about his position.

Regardless of where he regularly plays when games start. When he is used by managers as a plan B to lump balls upto it rarely works. And when he's used in these scenarios he's basically sitting in the oppositions box.

Thats my point he's not an effective plan B, the stats back it up. End of story.
 
Amadaeus said:
The way we utilized him is where the misunderstanding stems from. Fellaini for some strange reason is played as a midfielder. Rarely has he been utilized to his strength, which is an defensive foward as seen at his days at Everton. It is only few instances he has been utilized that way and he was at his most effective. So, this statistic does not reveal the whole narrative of the story of Maroune Fellaini.
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Fair play to him but I'd rather our forwards errmmm, attack.
 
maniwin said:
Am i the only one who thinks he will be important to them ? Arsenal lack player with Fellaini Attribute so much , he will be good for them
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Not really, giroud was a much better player.

He’s pretty crap as a midfielder as we know, can only see him being a squad player.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Not really, giroud was a much better player.

He’s pretty crap as a midfielder as we know, can only see him being a squad player.
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I think he is better than Elneny and possibly Xhaka, actually he isn't crap as a midfielder, he is just not United standard.
 
Cassidy said:
I think he is better than Elneny and possibly Xhaka, actually he isn't crap as a midfielder, he is just not United standard.
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Don’t agree. His passing range is far too short, can’t carry the ball passed a player.

Yes on his day he can break play up and play short passes but that’s not enough imo. Xhaka has much better potential he just needs a drill sergeant coach, Wenger is far too relaxed with players like that.
 
His passing is terrible. Incredibly limited and even then it's not great.

In the long list of reasons why he should never have been signed by Utd that is probably number one.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Don’t agree. His passing range is far too short, can’t carry the ball passed a player.

Yes on his day he can break play up and play short passes but that’s not enough imo. Xhaka has much better potential he just needs a drill sergeant coach, Wenger is far too relaxed with players like that.
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I guess you haven't watched much of Elneny, whilst Xhaka is on par with Bakayoko as one of the worst CMs in the league last season.
Our best midfield setup last season and at the beginning of this season was the 3 of Pogba Matic and Fellaini, he is not United standard but he is not a bad player, you even see that for the national side.

EDIT: BTW I want him gone too, but some people go too far with saying how bad he is.
 
Cassidy said:
I guess you haven't watched much of Elneny, whilst Xhaka is on par with Bakayoko as one of the worst CMs in the league last season.
Our best midfield setup last season and at the beginning of this season was the 3 of Pogba Matic and Fellaini, he is not United standard but he is not a bad player, you even see that for the national side.

EDIT: BTW I want him gone too, but some people go too far with saying how bad he is.
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That was more of a balance issue, Herrera took his place and we’ve looked much better.

I don’t think fellaini is awful but he’s just not effective enough to make up for his short comings.
 
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