Feck me that's an impressive amount of cobblers to pluck out of thin air.
Congrats.
Congrats.
FC Bayern 17/18 discussion
- Thread starter schwalbe
- Start date
Allegri? His record in the Champions League is poor though.
2 finals in 3 seasons is poor?
No one remembers 2 runners-up
Because of Hoeneß' return i expect a german coach or at least a german speaking coach. Hoeneß still dreams of the "FC Deutschland" and with Goretzka probably joining us next season and (very) interesting players like Werner, Brandt, Draxler (i don't think he has a big future in Paris), maybe even Sané if Pep buys some more attackers, i expect us to become "more german" again in the next years.
While I don't believe in this plan at all, Van Gaal arrived in 2009. So I don't get were 2002 came from.
We just signed guys who had good names and got lucky their philosophies of football were somewhat alike. That's it. The appointment of Carlo clearly proves the absence of a greater plan.
Yeas, a mistake: he joined Barcelona in 2002.
As a PSG fan, I can say:
1. He was a pragmatic coach: he can change his tactical system depending the opponent. He relies more on his flair and star players (Pirlo, Zlatan...) than on a "philosophy".
2. He isn't obsessed with ball possession: he has a straight-forward approach. Milan 2005-07 or PSG 2012-14 weren't overly dominant: the opposing teams were capable to create a lot of chances.
Conclusion: Carlos makes his team excellent when it comes to counter-attacking (Kaka, Menez, Nene..) but relatively disappointing when it comes to controlling the game from A to Z.
The issue is PSG & Bayern aren't made to counter-attack but to have a high possession rate, which requires a lot of tactical work.
Also, you have to take into account the quality of your recruitment policy in the last 2 years.
I can't comment because I don't follow Bayern on a regular basis.
I agree. They seem to contradict themselves to be honest.
Exactly. This is like Wenger's 10 year plan thing Arsenal fans used to talk about.
The problem is we're lacking those flair players and we're actually worse at counter attacking than before. As of right now, Carlo has failed even in those areas he's usually a specialist in. That's what's worrying me so much.
tbf, Götze was as high (for some even higher) rated as Neymar at the time. Rightly so. No one could know what happens to him. The same could have happened to Neymar.
Getting Götze is no problem at all. But getting him instead of Neymar is really strange as they are two completely different players. Same with Kroos and Khedira.
Did Bayern ever had a chance to sign Neymar? It always looked like it was between Madrid and Barca.
Apparently we actually did. He was offered to us at age 17, but was too expensive for us. As things look, we were always an option for him, but never really tried to get him due to the high fee.
I meant when Neymar moved to Barca, same year Bayern signed Gotze. So did they have any chance to sign Neymar? Would have been awesome team though.
I think so, yes. From what I've read, we were an option for him. Especially due to Pep. But we never really tried when it got obvious how much he would cost.
I think no one expected us to be as dominant and as great in posession as under Pep, but as HTG pointed out, even our counter attacks are a little worse than under Pep and much worse than under Heynckes. Additionally our defense is worse and even the chemistry between Carlo and the players doesn't seem to be that good.
Its very early in the season but at this point i wouldn't be surprised if we win nothing this year. The CL is unrealistic in my opinion (with Real and you being the favourites for me, Barca and City just behind and than Bayern along the likes of Atletico, Juve and United) and if Dortmund and/or Leipzig are able to play a (very) good season i also see us struggling in the Bundesliga.
That would have been some signing.
Surely that is why Bayern are (slightly) declining though, the last interesting thing you did in the transfer market was Lewandowski but a policy of picking up top players on the cheap is unsustainable. If Bayern don't want to play in the modern transfer market then decline should be expected.
The problem is partly that Dortmund sold Dembele to Barcelona right off the bat, rather than to you in say 2 seasons. If you want flair players, I don't see why you weren't in for Lemar or even pinch Dembele before Dortmund.
We wanted Dembele last season, just as Real and Barca did. But he decided to go to a club where he would be a guaranteed starter.
Almost all big clubs wanted Dembele but the player wanted Dortmund move for game time and his development, nothing much Bayern can do there.
I completely agree. We're not acting nearly as smart as people say and we are limiting ourselves far too much.
The weird thing about those total football gurus who constantly blame Hoeneß and Rummenigge for getting it all wrong is that they ignore it was Hoeneß who gave the job to van Gaal in the first place. Heynckes recommended him to his buddy Uli after we fired Klinsmann. Heynckes worked as our interim coach for a few weeks at the end of the 08/09 season.
There were never any phases. Van Gaal's revival through the success at Alkmaar made him an interesting option again. Then when we kicked him out, all the van Gaal fanboys predicted our downfall for giving the job to Heynckes and his outdated coaching, who just got it because he was one of Uli's best friends.
After that everyone tried to get Guardiola and we were lucky to pull it off. I highly doubt there was much more planning to it than all that. And all the talk about phases, planned succession in terms of style of play and all that is rewriting history. Obviously Guardiola fit the style of the team from the previous years. But even if we were a defensive counterattacking side between 2008 and 2013, we would have tried to sign him. Why wouldn't we have?
Exactly. Too many total football gurus spouting so much nonsense these days.
Who are these gurus?
Pace is key when it comes to counter-attacking and, unfortunately, some players are just getting older: Ribéry is 34, Robben 33, Lahm 33, Rafinha 32, Vidal 30, Lewa 29, Muller 28...
Your management is aware of the need for preparing the future. Renato Sanches (20) and Coman (21) were acquired: they probably need more time to reach their full potential in the mid-term.
James Rodriguez (26) and Tolisso (23) were recently recruited to boost your central midfield. Tolisso is a good acquisition IMO.
Yes
Bayern 2006/07 was very bad (Bundesliga: 4th, not qualified to play the Champions League in 07/08) so they decided to spend more money than usual >>>>>
- Summer 07: they took Ribéry, Klose, Luca Toni, Altintop, Ze Roberto and promoted a guy whose name is Kroos. Total spending: 92 millions
- Summer 08: they just recruited 2 squad players (Donova, Borowski) for free. Total spending: 0 million
The competition (English clubs, PSG, a reviving Juve, Barcelona, Real) is now very tough to recruit in a difficult market (hard to find available great young/experienced player.
However, they know how to change their strategy when required
So Tuchel or Nagelsmann.
So we don't have to assemble a new squad to fit the manager? Isn't that quite obvious? I mean, I agree with you when you say there was no greater plan. But the absence of that plan is a serious problem to me.
Lahm understood Pep, cause they both wanted the same. Lahm to play defensive midfield, which led to Lahm demanding the same from Low. That led to Germany nearly losing the World Cup, because of Lahm´s ego. He had neither the skill-set nor the body to play defensive midfield.
I agree that Lahm moving to RB redefined Germany's WC. But I cannot agree with anything else. Lahm's ego? Really?
You do not become as good as Lahm was without developing some sort of ego.
There's ego which helps us improve ourselves, and then there's ego which makes us blind to collective good. I don't think Lahm ever stepped into the latter territory.
I don't think getting the best manager available when you need a new one is in itself a bad plan. Sometimes it just doesn't work out and then people start making big claims about the lack of a bigger plan and cite examples that were more coincidence than initially well thought out longterm plans. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for kicking Hoeneß and Rummenigge out of the club and giving a different manager a chance. I never really wanted Ancelotti in the first place and made several posts about manager usually doing their best work as young and unproven coaches rather than as established elite managers who move to another big club. But that means you have to take risks by appointing managers like Nagelsmann is today and have to live with failure and backlash in the media.
Sacchi hadn't proven more when he got the Milan job. Lattek was nothing but a young assistant coach for the nationalteam and liked by Beckenbauer and Müller, when he got the Bayern job for the first time. It doesn't have to be a former worldclass player or an established manager. I'd love it if we gave Tuchel a chance despite his problems at Dortmund. It isn't a bigger risk than keeping Ancelotti or giving it to Allegri. If it doesn't work out, we'll survive easily.
I actually think Tuchel might have the right attitude for Bayern while it was the wrong one for Dortmund.
I would swap him and Carlo immediatelyWenger speaks German too