Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars

[Balu]

I could think of a 4-3-3 with van Hanegem on the left in a slightly deeper role who helps out in midfield and defense a lot to get Carlos involved in attack and Garrincha on the right, then Kohler - Figueroa as the centerback pairing and Falcao - Zico - Beckenbauer in midfield. But I have an almost irrational dislike for that 532, so don't take it too seriously .

Can't think of anything that makes sense with Maradona really.

 

[crappycraperson]

we can also go diamond

----------Baggio----Muller
-------------Maradona---
--------Beckenabauer--Falcao
------------Van hangem
Carlos---Kohler---Figueroa-----Alberto


or magic square (after saying so many times that Maradona won't work in a magic square )


----------Baggio----Muller
------------------------------
----------Maradona--Zico--
--------Beckenabauer--Falcao
-------------------------------------
Carlos---Kohler---Figueroa-----Alberto

 

[Balu]

That diamond makes no sense at all .

 

[Balu]

No love for that?

 

[crappycraperson]

That diamond makes no sense at all .

I know

 

[crappycraperson]

No love for that?

Looks good but from winning point of view what we have right now is better I guess

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

There is no point hiding it I guess

Which do you prefer -

----------Baggio----Muller
-------------Maradona---
--------Van Hangem--Falcao
Carlos---Kohler---Figueroa-----Alberto
------------Beckenabauer-----------

----------Eusbeio----Muller
----------------Zico---
--------Beckenabauer--Falcao
Carlos---Kohler---Figueroa-----Alberto
--------------Scirea-----------

Just checked. Annah played a 4-2-3-1 in last match. Assuming he plays the same with Maldini upgrade, your 5 man defence would be a overkill. 4 man + Beckenbauer/Falcao should be sufficient. You can drop Scirea for Socrates.

----------Eusbeio----Muller------
--------Socrates------Zico----------
--------Beckenabauer--Falcao--
Carlos---Kohler---Figueroa-----Alberto

 

[Annahnomoss]

I won't pick Maradona/Eusebio/Cruyff anyhow Crappy if that makes you feel better. Will go for the best possible team rather than players.

 

[antohan]

- Only one vote out of Theon, Crappy and Snow will count.

I know it's all quite weird. The fact is you should have been handed the team or not, no halfway houses.

None of the three above count (unless you mean count like Annah's, i.e. not at all). Pillow himself is borderline but OKish.

 

[crappycraperson]

I know it's all quite weird. The fact is you should have been handed the team or not, no halfway houses.

None of the three above count (unless you mean count like Annah's, i.e. not at all). Pillow himself is borderline but OKish.

Yes. One vote will cancel out Annah. Fruitcake's/Edgar's is dependent on Annah. It is upto him, he can decide if he gets to vote or not.

 

[antohan]

Theon prefers that as well but I really wanted Maradona

If you played Maradona and Baggio and benched Zico I would have to shoot you. Seriously, wtf?

 

[antohan]

Can't think of anything that makes sense with Maradona really.

Seriously? Even when Argentina '86 played 3-5-2?

 

[Balu]

Seriously? Even when Argentina '86 played 3-5-2?

Not in general, in this particular case within the restrictions and the players available, still can't think of anything that's better than the one formation with Eusebio, Müller, Zico and Beckenbauer, Falcao in midfield.

 

[antohan]

Not in general, in this particular case within the restrictions and the players available, still can't think of anything that's better than the one formation with Eusebio, Müller, Zico and Beckenbauer, Falcao in midfield.

For eye candy? Nope. I don't like how they have now completely shat on Brazil 82 for good yet want Maradona, someone who shone in '86 in a 3-5-2 but won't play him in the role he had in 86. Maradona and Baggio

 

[Theon]

For eye candy? Nope. I don't like how they have now completely shat on Brazil 82 for good yet want Maradona, someone who shone in '86 in a 3-5-2 but won't play him in the role he had in 86. Maradona and Baggio

Where did I say that mate? Have a look on the last page, crappy has said what my preferred choice is.

Crappy wants Maradona and so do I but due to the restrictions it's very difficult to get him in the 3-5-2. We could do so it but it's a much weaker side.

Eusebio has always been the clear pick over the last few rounds, but I'm starting to like the idea of Cruyff as well.. Completely different and not as obvious a pick as Eusebio but I think he would be awesome with Zico running off him

 

[antohan]

 

[antohan]

Oh, the winning criteria...

Would have to be Da Guia for Kohler then, shame though after the semi he just had.

 

[crappycraperson]

mmmmmmm

 

[antohan]

SPOT THE DIFFERENCE

_____________________

​

The magic draft formula: Build a 3-5-2, win difficult games on the strengths of its defence, then have the chance to play the best ever in the formation that made him best ever... and pick Eusebio.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The only way round it, other than dropping Kohler, would be to replace Roberto Carlos. Could go for Krol as LB - but that would be LB more than LWB, I suppose, which takes something away from the '86 theme. What I like about the '86 formation is that is lets Maradona do his thing. You basically upgrade the rest of the team - with players who won't get in Maradona's way. To me Maradona should be employed in a genuine Maradona role. If not, I'd rather see some variation on the Brazil '82 theme, to be honest.

 

[Theon]

Shoehorning Maradona into a team doesn't make sense antohan, you're acting as if Eusebio is a grossly inferior player when he wasn't at all. Dropping Zico and dropping Kohler makes it a bad move - Maradona is just one player

 

[antohan]

The only way round it, other than dropping Kohler, would be to replace Roberto Carlos. Could go for Krol as LB - but that would be LB more than LWB, I suppose, which takes something away from the '86 theme. What I like about the '86 formation is that is lets Maradona do his thing. You basically upgrade the rest of the team - with players who won't get in Maradona's way. To me Maradona should be employed in a genuine Maradona role. If not, I'd rather see some variation on the Brazil '82 theme, to be honest.

One pick has been used on Carlos Alberto already. Brazil 82 is gone now.

Exactly.

 

[antohan]

Shoehorning Maradona into a team doesn't make sense antohan, you're acting as if Eusebio is a grossly inferior player when he wasn't at all. Dropping Zico and dropping Kohler makes it a bad move - Maradona is just one player

You are completely mental if you see that as shoe-horning. Eusebio is being shoe-horned, not Maradona in the exact same formation he played in 86. Nutter.

 

[antohan]

Look at all the batshit options listed so far, all look like shoe-horning to me. Maradona in his element at the cost of Kohler for Da Guia? That's fine in my book, or are you planning to defend high up against Pelé, Ronaldo and Stoichkov?

 

[Theon]

You are completely mental if you see that as shoe-horning. Eusebio is being shoe-horned, not Maradona in the exact same formation he played in 86. Nutter.

I obviously meant with the rest of the team, dropping Zico, dropping Kohler who actually won the World Cup in a back three for Da Guia - someone you bitched and moaned about previously

How is Eusebio being shoehorned?

 

[antohan]

I obviously meant with the rest of the team, dropping Zico, dropping Kohler who actually won the World Cup in a back three for Da Guia - someone you bitched and moaned about previously

How is Eusebio being shoehorned?

It's not Maradona's fault that you chose to go with two 9.5s from the outset.

I never bitched or moaned about Da Guia, stop making shit up like a complete retard. I only said he would struggle playing a high line because he never played one. Are you planning on a high line against Annah? If so, good luck with that then, whatever you pick.

Eusebio would be playing in a completely alien setup just because you want to pile up attacking names, Maradona would be orchestrating in the exact same formation that saw him reach the highest peak performance we ever saw or will see in a World Cup. One makes far more sense than the other.

See? This is why the whole "temporary management" is nonsense. Crappy should be allowed to pick, he won the last game and should be managing the team in the final, but you are clearly forcing Eusebio on him. Or aren't you?

 

[antohan]

Eusebio has always been the clear pick over the last few rounds, but I'm starting to like the idea of Cruyff as well.. Completely different and not as obvious a pick as Eusebio but I think he would be awesome with Zico running off him

 

[Theon]

It's not Maradona's fault that you chose to go with two 9.5s from the outset.

I never bitched or moaned about Da Guia, stop making shit up like a complete retard. I only said he would struggle playing a high line because he never played one. Are you planning on a high line against Annah? If so, good luck with that then, whatever you pick.

Eusebio would be playing in a completely alien setup just because you want to pile up attacking names, Maradona would be orchestrating in the exact same formation that saw him reach the highest peak performance we ever saw or will see in a World Cup. One makes far more sense than the other.

See? This is why the whole "temporary management" is nonsense. Crappy should be allowed to pick, he won the last game and should be managing the team in the final, but you are clearly forcing Eusebio on him. Or aren't you?

You complete embarrassment antohan you can't stop yourself.

Eusebio is playing in an absolutely fine set up, there would be few better and with Muller up top he has complete freedom to play his all round gane - something he didn't have in the last round. It's actually fecking hilarious you think Eusebio is being shoehorned - its bat shit crazy and you're making yourself look retarded.

Is Charlton being shoehorned playing left wing by the way, or are you only going to moan about this side?

In fact how about you're team, I take it Junior wasn't shoehorned playing a left centre back type of role, and of course Figueroa usually played with no other centre back partners, and you clearly played a system giving Neeskens complete freedom to get forward as he did in '74.... You complete tit.

 

[antohan]

So you want Eusebio in a 3-5-2 over Maradona in one and I'm the retard?

Go get me one lineup in Eusebio's entire career where he played in a 3-5-2, just one. I'll see you in a few hours... empty-handed.

 

[antohan]

Is Charlton being shoehorned playing left wing by the way, or are you only going to moan about this side?

I'm moaning about your side? I thought I was helping, but hey, knock yourself out spazzo.

 

[Theon]

So you want Eusebio in a 3-5-2 over Maradona in one and I'm the retard?

Go get me one lineup in Eusebio's entire career where he played in a 3-5-2, just one. I'll see you in a few hours... empty-handed.

You're an absolute joke

Okay pal I'll have a look - in the meantime can you post the line ups where Junior/Figueroa/Neeskens/Romario played in this set up? Thanks.

 

[antohan]

You're an absolute joke

Okay pal I'll have a look - in the meantime can you post the line ups where Junior/Figueroa/Neeskens/Romario played in this set up? Thanks.

Junior is the only one not very well suited to that at all, I explained exactly why and how Krol would have been better in the game with Pol, so clearly I'm aware of that. The one benefit from Junior though was Neeskens was completely free in possession.

Christ, you talk about self-awareness. Is there anyone out there reading this who thinks I was anything but being helpful by suggesting Maradona and making the case for it?

In the only way I'm not helpful is if it is making it hard for Theon to impose his retarded will on crappy. Clearly why he is reacting like this.

 

[antohan]

You are missing the point with Eusebio anyway, clearly you don't have the faintest idea how he is best utilised. Just a shiny name to stick upfront on the teamsheet, pure and simple.

 

[Balu]

You are missing the point with Eusebio anyway, clearly you don't have the faintest idea how he is best utilised. Just a shiny name to stick upfront on the teamsheet, pure and simple.

I like Eusebio in that role as well . What exactly do you think is so wrong about him here?

Also, aren't you significantly reducing Beckenbauer's and Falcao's influence on the game by forcing Maradona into the team? And he can't play Rattin with da Guia in the team for Kohler, because of the pre '72 restrictions, so you force van Hanegem as a defensive midfielder in the team? When I said 'put those all time greats to work and don't give them a creative back-up plan' I wasn't really talking about playing Maradona infront of Beckenbauer, Falcao and van Hanegem? If you want Maradona in the team, that's certainly the best way, but I have my doubts that's the best way to improve the team.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Is Charlton being shoehorned playing left wing by the way, or are you only going to moan about this side?

I've never played Charlton as a left winger. I have played him as a Central attacking midfielder on the left side. Which is natural as he played half his professional career and the majority of his footballing life as a left winger/left inside forward - the other half as a central attacking midfielder.

I further explained the reason was that he played most of his footballing life as a left-winger/left inside forward, until he was 25 years old and in WC terms he played there both in 58 and 62 showing that he also had the WC experience in the position.

"From 1956-1958 Bobby Charlton played as an attacking inside forward, foraging and scoring goals and there are many who cherish this phase more than his stint in the early 60's 1958-1962 as a winger and the mid 60's 1964-1968 pomp as a playmaker.

At the time of the crash he was keeping the very talented Liam "Billy" Whelan out of the side.

In the 1956-1958 phase he operated with a carefee exuberance which vanished forever after the Munich crash. From 1958 to 1962 he operated as a left winger who thrilled especially when receiving the ball early as he surged along the touchline before cutting in for those awesome strikes."

If Eusebio had played in the role you want for him the majority of his career then nobody would question it.

 

[Theon]

If Eusebio had played in the role you want for him the majority of his career then nobody would question it.

No body in their right mind would question it - seriously what is going on here? He is playing as a forward with the complete freedom to drop deep that he had for Portugal.

Gio didn't play a WM formation, neither did Polaroid.

Fair enough on Charlton, I assumed you were playing the peak '66 version.

 

[Theon]

I like Eusebio in that role as well . What exactly do you think is so wrong about him here?

Also, aren't you significantly reducing Beckenbauer's and Falcao's influence on the game by forcing Maradona into the team? And he can't play Rattin with da Guia in the team for Kohler, because of the pre '72 restrictions, so you force van Hanegem as a defensive midfielder in the team? When I said 'put those all time greats to work and don't give them a creative back-up plan' I wasn't really talking about playing Maradona infront of Beckenbauer, Falcao and van Hanegem? If you want Maradona in the team, that's certainly the best way, but I have my doubts that's the best way to improve the team.

Indeed, Van Hanegem is completely unnecessary here, the last thing that side needs is more deep playmakers.

 

[Annahnomoss]

No body in their right mind would question it - seriously what is going on here? He is playing as a forward with the complete freedom to drop deep that he had for Portugal.

Gio didn't play a WM formation, neither did Polaroid.

Fair enough on Charlton, I assumed you were playing the peak '66 version.

I am playing the peak '66 version. If you watch his games you will see that due to his prior career being solely on the left side he was prone to operate on the left side and the middle. But Pele is the best player at adjusting if Charlton sees a great chance slightly on the right. That is one of the big parts of what made Pele in '70 so great, that he didn't get in the way even if on paper it would be impossible to field Tostao/Rivelino/Jairzinho/Pele without them getting in each others way. Pele made it work by moving up to the forward line, then out wide, then to the midfield and what not - he made stuff tick.

Pele showed that he can get the best of someone almost exactly like that in Rivelino. That is what I personally rate the highest in Pele's '70 performance. I haven't seen a top player with that ability since Pele.

 

[Theon]

That is what I personally rate the highest in Pele's '70 performance. I haven't seen a top player with that ability since Pele.

Yeah I agree, incredible tournament and player. He'll be great with Charlton.

 

[antohan]

I like Eusebio in that role as well . What exactly do you think is so wrong about him here?

A fair share of what made Eusebio great was him playing from deep. He wasn't a traditional centreforward or #9, he typically played in a front three at the very least with other players acting as actual strikers (as Muller would be here). He was usually in a five as an inside, i.e. one of the more withdrawn build-up roles and with midfields behind him which stayed quite deep giving him complete freedom to roam in the space between the lines, pick up the ball and run at the defence.

I don't think I ever saw him play striker with a central #10 type behind like Zico would be here and Falcao bombing forward (which further reduces the scope for runs from deep from Eusebio), I don't think it would work at all. In this last game the one merit I saw in Maradona not being central was precisely that there was that gap in the middle for him to drop into and they wouldn't get in each other's way. Seeing him in a 1-2 as an out and out striker looks complete and utter bollocks to me.

Also, aren't you significantly reducing Beckenbauer's and Falcao's influence on the game by forcing Maradona into the team?

How so? I don't see either as the sort who would demand the ball to be theirs but players who would quite clearly enjoy having such a superb orchestrator picking out their runs. If you depict them as midfield playmakers, absolutely, but I'm looking at them putting a defensive shift, turning the ball around and then bursting forward providing Diego with incredible options.

And he can't play Rattin with da Guia in the team for Kohler, because of the pre '72 restrictions, so you force van Hanegem as a defensive midfielder in the team?

That's a real shame indeed as I would have preferred playing Rattin myself, obviously. van Hanegem actually is the one that has the most disruptive potential out of that midfield trio. I never liked the notion of him at the base of the magic square, nor do I love it here, but if he does as instructed and sticks to shackling Pelé, helping distribute well from deep and staying put he should be fine. I would not under any circumstances play van Hanegem in either of the other two roles, not at all.

The fundamental issue with the 3-5-2 throughout has been whether it can come back from being a goal down and whether it can score enough goals. Maradona is the man who delivers that, as you should know from your own experience, seeing him rip you apart for three goals despite the much lesser cast assembled around him. Matthaus couldn't do a job on him in 86 and he won't be able to here either.