I agree with that. I understand the temptation to pick Ronaldo but Stam/Vicente is easily the worst CB pairing going into the semis. Luckily there is Didi and Mathaus there.
Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars
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I agree with that. I understand the temptation to pick Ronaldo but Stam/Vicente is easily the worst CB pairing going into the semis. Luckily there is Didi and Mathaus there.
The restrictions were rougher on me than you think.
I needed a post 70's non-winner and they didn't exist. The only one of any sort of quality was Krol - but again he would still not make my defense much better. Vicente and Krol were both sweepers so I couldn't play them.
I had no choice of picking up two pre-70s non-winners which was the only option I had left. That would mean I would have 4 pre-70s in the defense+gk alone.
Didi isn't much cop defensively, but Matthaus is of course a monster - big ask though.
Well the obvious thing to get a balanced team would have been Figueroa over Pele - you already had Charlton there.
I don't agree. Ronaldinho was a huge weakness going up against Jairzinho and Alberto. He couldn't hack it don't you agree? Charlton with Facchetti are defensively very sound on the other hand.
I needed a new AM to make it happen and personally I don't rate Zidane to be capable of sharing the play-making role. Pele showed he can do it and Charlton did the same throughout his career.
Of course Figueroa would improve the defense, but he would be playing with Stam and the pair would be still be the worst in the draft and an issue.
Also Didi was excellent in the defense Theon, rated as the best deep lying playmaker in history and it was thanks to his work-rate, strength and great positioning which lead to him being capable of racking up so many interceptions.
Tell me whether this is more suiting for a Deep lying playmaker like Carrick or someone like Iniesta who you seem to consider him as. I mean someone by most people considered the best deep lying playmaker in history - being defensively anything but great is of course a huge stretch.
Especially considering his strengths are described as the following;
“A “wizard”, Didi was an utterly sublime central midfielder who picked passes as effortlessly as he intercepted them. He had incredibly accurate passing, ball control, vision, great stamina and strength."
"The Prince of Ethiopian" Valdir Pereira “Didi” is considered to be one of the greatest midfielders ever. He had incredibly accurate passing, ball controlling, vision, great stamina and strength. He played as holding creative midfielder and created many of assists to Brazil’s strikers and scored a lot of goals by his own. "
http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=246932
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Didi is closer to an attacking midfielder than a holding midfielder. He dropped deeper back then due to the formation and having 4 attackers ahead of him, in a present formation he would be an AM given how he played.
That is not very accurate mate. Didi was equally capable of playing as an AM/RAM as well as a DM/CM.
He isn't recognized as one of the best AM's though, he is always listed as a CM(that includes all types of DM's too) or he is listed as a "Playmaker" as in the term "deep lying playmaker".
Didi was far worse as an AM than he was as a Creative Holding midfielder.
Chill out Annah, we're only chatting so no need to get defensive.
I don't think a good defensive player for the left wing is as important as a good defensive player for central defence - not sure anyone would disagree with that. Also not sure if you actually believe what you are saying.
Didi was most certainly not "excellent" defensively - he might have been alright, but it was absolutely not his strong point and I wouldnt use his defensive skills as a way around the weak central defence! He had Zito behind him in that side and was much more about playmaking and attacking.
I don't think a good defensive player for the left wing is as important as a good defensive player for central defence - not sure anyone would disagree with that. Also not sure if you actually believe what you are saying.
Didi was most certainly not "excellent" defensively - he might have been alright, but it was absolutely not his strong point and I wouldnt use his defensive skills as a way around the weak central defence! He had Zito behind him in that side and was much more about playmaking and attacking.
Pirlo would be listed as a that type of player, but he's a liability defensively. That doesn't prove anything.
Pirlo is not the greatest deep lying playmaker in history because he was a liability defensively. The same goes for Scholes - Didi has half of his strengths defensively in stamina, strength, positioning(interceptions) work-rate.
If you list Scholes/Pirlo's strengths then add defensively strong skills too - you would suddenly have a player who fits in the "best ever" lists.
Not sure what lists you are looking at. He was a lot more advanced than the role of a holding midfielder in a modern formation. That was the issue when he joined Madrid and couldn't fit in due to Di Stefano being there. In 58 World Cup he did not play the role of what would be a holding midfielder in a 4-2-3-1. He'd be a playmaker but his defensive ability while good was not something to boast of and Zito was the one who held the fort defensively.
Not sure why you would say he is far worse as an AM when all his strengths point towards that role.
Can you point out your source which cites Didi as the greatest deep lying playmaker in history?
Hold on, you are looking at Dearman's list? 
You do know that account is managed by 6 people, and is known to be a fake? I personally know one of those 6 who used to use that account.
You do know that account is managed by 6 people, and is known to be a fake? I personally know one of those 6 who used to use that account.
I did already above mate. I will continue adding sources in this posts of how he was rated and you can read the descriptions and make your own mind up! One sec and I am on it.
I always thought Pirlo's defensive contribution is a bit underrated while his attacking contribtion is overrated. He's not an alltime great (bloody good player though, no doubt), because he lacks a bit in all those attributes, but he's imo a more well rounded player than for examples Scholes. I'm not commenting on Annah's players though, a bit weird to judge my opponent, might influence his decision and I don't want to do that 
.
.Must say annah, your appraisal of Didi is quite different to everything I'v seen of and heard about him previously. I certainly wouldn't be using his presence to try and make Vicente/Stam look any less vulnerable.
These lists on various are simply rubbish, done by random people. Someone who has watched all these players live would not be able to come up with a list that does justice to all players as there is never a common basis to compare all players to have played the game, let alone posters on forums doing that for the sake of it and getting hits.
Not my desire to come out as defensive(or offensive). Just explaining my reasoning behind it - like I said of course having great CB's is a huge plus and I've said mine aren't great.
I didn't have the choice of forming the best CB pairing ever though - I wish I had it. I did have the option to form the best left-side possibly in the draft though so I took it.
If I had Figueroa left for my second pick I would of course have picked him in a heart-beat but he wasn't. The remaining options were unfortunately unplayable unless I wanted to upgrade two picks - then replace them with the next two picks after these rounds.(if I go through.)
Basically I could have just forfeited spending 3 picks on CB's out of the 4 last. Does it make sense? I realize picking Pele/Ronaldo was like picking Yashin/Figueroa for you.
It wasn't what we wanted , it was what we had to do.
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Hold on, you are looking at Dearman's list?
You do know that account is managed by 6 people, and is known to be a fake? I personally know one of those 6 who used to use that account.
There's one guy on that forum who claims he's an journalist who traveled to football matches in the 30's. He's well spoken and it's fun to read, but feck me, he had to be in his twenties then to work as a journalist, which means he's at least 90 years old now and posts all the time on a football fourm? Any chance your buddy knows, who's that guy, because seriously, that has to be fake as well
I agree completely! But if someone like Maradona is rated as the best AM in history in most lists then there is something behind it. There is no official ranking of players so unfortunately if you ask for ranks we end up with these lists.
I am not relying on Dearman's list - I use every available list as you asked for one. I already posted quotes from journalists which seem to be ignored. I have watched the games of Brazil '58 since the draft started - which is why I liked Pele and Didi.
http://footballpantheon.com/2011/09/the-100-greatest-players-of-all-time/
http://footballsgreatest.weebly.com/midfield-playmakers.html
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There's one guy on that forum who claims he's an journalist who traveled to football matches in the 30's. He's well spoken and it's fun to read, but feck me, he had to be in his twenties then to work as a journalist, which means he's at least 90 years old now and posts all the time on a football fourm? Any chance your buddy knows, who's that guy, because seriously, that has to be fake as well
These forums are filled with such stories. This particular account has made plenty of lists there and my friend who was a part of it told me they just did it as they were bored, not that they would have come up with something worthy of looking at otherwise
I am sure the majority of all lists are people like that. Nobody can make a list of 100 people and have the time to watch all of them extensively.Even when Pele did one it ended up completely crap and with the players he liked.
Not sure why you put the 'even' in there?
Even when Pele did one it ended up completely crap and with the players he liked.
There's a big difference though. Maradona is universally rated that way, by players, journalists etc etc. Even then there are players who you can say were as good as Maradona and there won't be much wrong with it. Di Stefano for example was every bit as quality.
It is always better to rate players (if you really have to, comparisons are generally silly anyway) in tiers which at least makes more sense that rating them numerically. It's not about official or anything, in the end it is all opinion.
Didi was obviously a great player and if someone tells you he was one of the best Brazilian players there's not much wrong in it. From my knowledge, from reading, watching, discussing, he was closer to an AM, not an out and out AM but closer to that than a holding player. Still you can play him alongside a DM, like he did with Zito and there's not much wrong with it, however like others said his defensive side was nothing to boast about. He worked hard, so did Charlton and several attacking players of that time but it's not something you can use to make a change in a game of this level, at least not without them sacrificing some of their impact. Like Charlton was asked to man mark Kaiser in 66, that obviously meant the gaffer had faith in his defensive side but that meant his impact on the game would be much lower. It is similar with Didi, he was a terrific long range shooter, and if you ask him to aid the CBs by staying deep and not having the license to advance, that goes into the bin.
No doubt. I don't disagree with that at all - I mean he is not the midfielder who will carry me in the defense I have Matthäus for that. But the way he was spoken about seemed to imply he was incapable to play defense and had his strengths in the offense and it isn't very true.
He had great work-rate and positioning for a midfielder. Even if it is of course so that Didi won't be able to use his shooting in this line-up the same way he would if the entire team was tampered to him.
The Brazil of '58 played 4-2-4 with Didi and Zito in the midfield - Didi played on Garrinchas side and had to take an awful lot of responsibility defensively. It is not an AM's job to play in a 4-2-4 central midfield.
The line-up I am using has 2 wingers who are great in the defense and it will hopefully add something compared to what Garrincha would at least!
One thing we should all be able to agree with is that he played as a central midfielder in WC '58 and not an AM or anything near that.A 4-2-4 CM who was the 5th most attacking player in the lineup. He had 1 player who was more defensive than him excluding the defense and GK:
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According to that list, Carlos Alberto is the 15th greatest player of all time? Maldini is 52nd and Nilton Santos 43rd. Ffs, I'm underrating my own players, I suck as a manager, what a monster of a fullback is he?
No, seriously, I rate Carlos Alberto incredibly high and wasn't really interested in best fullback of all time comparisons so far, but where do you guys see him in comparison to all the usually more hyped left backs? (Maldini, Facchetti, Santos the obvious ones). The right back usually gets less attention for some reason, or is that just my imagination
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I really should use that list, I have 5 top 20 players of all time in my team and I thought I lack the big names
Alberto is absolutely brilliant to be honest. He falls behind Maldini, Facchetti, Santos, Santos but after that he is there with Krol/Thuram/Schnellingar/Vogts/Brehme.
It is so hard to separate those and it is mainly down to the rest of the team in my eyes. They all have different style and offer something unique.
It is so hard to separate those and it is mainly down to the rest of the team in my eyes. They all have different style and offer something unique.
All those are top names, I don't one significantly better than the other. Completely depends on the role you give them. My favourite right backs are Thuram and Zanetti.
That list is toss. I remember going through it some time back. Too many inconsistencies. Ronaldo not making it while someone like Iniesta is at 30 does not even make sense.According to that list, Carlos Alberto is the 15th greatest player of all time? Maldini is 52nd and Nilton Santos 43rd. Ffs, I'm underrating my own players, I suck as a manager, what a monster of a fullback is he?
No, seriously, I rate Carlos Alberto incredibly high and wasn't really interested in best fullback of all time comparisons so far, but where do you guys see him in comparison to all the usually more hyped left backs? (Maldini, Facchetti, Santos the obvious ones). The right back usually gets less attention for some reason, or is that just my imagination
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I really should use that list, I have 5 top 20 players of all time in my team and I thought I lack the big names
He doesn't fall behind Djalma, rarely heard that if it all.
I agree, thought it was more funny than anything. Pretty much all those lists are crap
. Still great effort to at least try and put it all into context.He doesn't fall behind Djalma, rarely heard that if it all.
I agree, thought it was more funny than anything. Pretty much all those lists are crap
Then show me the list.
Sucks to see Thuram going out. I tried a lot to find a way to fit him but couldn't. He was not even played as RB in a WC draft which is sadder.
This is probably my favourite moment from the WCs I have watched.
This is probably my favourite moment from the WCs I have watched.
Cheers mate, great semi final line up.
Sucks to see Thuram going out. I tried a lot to find a way to fit him but couldn't. He was not even played as RB in a WC draft which is sadder.
This is probably my favourite moment from the WCs I have watched.
The restrictions have made everything really tricky in the last rounds. Most managers made at best one pick that was a huge upgrade.
You have no clue how much I wanted Thuram, but the restrictions means you really have to sacrifice one way or the other.
Just look at the best Brazilian elevens of all time you posted in the first game to prove how highly rated Leonidas is. Pretty sure one had him as right back and the other included both him and Djalma because other than da Guia, Brazil's centerbacks clearly are nowhere near the top tier of defenders. With all the research you did, you really should know thatThen show me the list.
It's tough to say who is better between Djalma and Alberto. Both are rated pretty highly. In an all time eleven even I would rather have Alberto as a CB which he played once he lost pace than any other Brazilian CB.Just look at the best Brazilian elevens of all time you posted in the first game to prove how highly rated Leonidas is. Pretty sure one had him as right back and the other included both him and Djalma because other than da Guia, Brazil's centerbacks clearly are nowhere near the top tier of defenders. With all the research you did, you really should know that
Fullbacks are tough in an all time Brazilian 11. Djalma, Alberto, Cafu, Leandro, Jorginho on one side while Nilton, Carlos, Junior etc on the other.
Very difficult to split Djalma, CA and Cafu for me, tends to come down to personal preference.
I agree with both you and Fergus. Cafu is up there as well, no doubt. I personally think Alberto edges it, because he was defensively slightly better than Cafu and his attacking contribution edges it over Djalma, but it really is a matter of opinions and there's not much between them. Djalma certainly doesn't stand out though, I think he benefits a bit through his last name being the same as Nilton's.