Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars

Jan 22nd​
Pol vs Crappy/Pippa - What a match-up. I see Crappy as the winner as he has a perfect team for this round. Pol can't get Rivaldo in the same team as Maradona can he? The same goes for Zizinho which was questioned last round already.​
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Rpitroda vs Balu - My favorite match of the round, both are gong to make it tactical and love wall of texts. It will all be about who outsmarts and outargues the opponent in this match.​
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Jan 23rd​
Cal vs Annah - Cal's a great guy so will be a great match-up, no favorite going in to this.​
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Theon/Snow vs Antohan - So much emotions is going to be put on display in this thread. I think whoever keeps their head cool and don't get in to petty arguments will win it.​
 
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Any comments? Just thinking a few ideas through, not sure yet, which attacking line-up I choose and I can choose freely 2 out of (Forlan, Kempes and Meazza), so no need to worry about the restrictions with those 3.

I know, on paper Meazza played as an inside right in a 2323 at both worldcups. But from what I've seen and read about him, he was basically a right footed AM/2nd striker who roamed freely in and around the box, that's exactly what I want him to do. My problem is just how to make a starting formation that shows the players' roles without placing one of Kempes, Meazza and Cruyff out of position, even though they would do exactly what they did in their worldcup performances.

I think, it's a bit sad that Desert didn't have time to play his game and Meazza really deserves some attention. But I don't want to have a discussion about the place on the teamsheet, so if someone believes I'm just picking a big name to win votes and use him out of position, then I happily leave Meazza out.
 
Balu said:
abGd2UZaX.jpg


Any comments? Just thinking a few ideas through, not sure yet, which attacking line-up I choose and I can choose freely 2 out of (Forlan, Kempes and Meazza), so no need to worry about the restrictions with those 3.

I know, on paper Meazza played as an inside right in a 2323 at both worldcups. But from what I've seen and read about him, he was basically a right footed AM/2nd striker who roamed freely in and around the box, that's exactly what I want him to do. My problem is just how to make a starting formation that shows the players' roles without placing one of Kempes, Meazza and Cruyff out of position, even though they would do exactly what they did in their worldcup performances.

I think, it's a bit sad that Desert didn't have time to play his game and Meazza really deserves some attention. But I don't want to have a discussion about the place on the teamsheet, so if someone believes I'm just picking a big name to win votes and use him out of position, then I happily leave Meazza out.
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I agree with your take on Meazza. An inside forward in the old 2-3-5 could easily be described as a 2nd striker - and in the W-M the role could even be compared to that of an attacking midfielder. Meazza was a flair player by all accounts - and I'd say he'd be wasted as a striker - much more suited to a free roaming role of the sort you seem to have in mind for him.

I wonder how accurate this account is:


I also saw Pelé playing. He did not achieve Meazza's elegant style of playing. One day, at the Arena, I witnessed him doing something astonishing: he stopped the ball with a bicycle kick, elevating himself two meters from the ground. Then he landed with the ball glued at his foot, dribbled over an astonished defender, and then went on scoring a goal with one of his hallmark shots, sardonic and accurate to the millimeter.

Luigi Veronelli
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Quite a playa, as they say.
 
Your contribution to the draft really is brilliant, Chesterlestreet. Really great that you post so much. If I don't play Meazza I spam this thread full with quotes about him. He must have been a hell of a player, very often called the best Italian player of all time and certainly one of the all time top 10 worldcup performers.
 
Balu said:
Your contribution to the draft really is brilliant, Chesterlestreet. Really great that you post so much. If I don't play Meazza I spam this thread full with quotes about him. He must have been a hell of a player, very often called the best Italian player of all time and certainly one of the all time top 10 worldcup performers.
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Thanks, mate - and right back at you!

Aye - his WC credentials are impeccable: hard to think of many players who can rival him in that regard, actually.
 
Yeah, I finally found a quote that backs up my view on Meazza's role in some of the worldcup footage on him I've seen.

His first fifteen caps were at center-forward, but in 1933, he showed his versatility during a 3–1 victory over Germany in Bologna, when he was moved to an inside-right position by the Italian coach Vittorio Pozzo, to accommodate teammate Angelo Schiavio, a switch that would help Italy win the World Cup the next year as the goals flowed in. During the tournament, Meazza once again demonstrated his adaptability when he was switched to an inside-left, when needed.
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http://www.giuseppemeazza.it/en/giuseppe-meazza-italia

So it really shouldn't be a problem to use him in that versatile role in my team :)

Of course, comments on that line-up above in comparison to Forlan in that role again are still appreciated, I've really no clue which I like more.
 
Balu said:
Yeah, I finally found a quote that backs up my view on Meazza's role in some of the worldcup footage on him I've seen.

http://www.giuseppemeazza.it/en/giuseppe-meazza-italia

So it really shouldn't be a problem to use him in that versatile role in my team :)

Of course, comments on that line-up above in comparison to Forlan in that role again are still appreciated, I've really no clue which I like more.
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That's exactly how I would use him myself, not too bothered about left or right TBH. Just like when I told Jayvin Schiaffino was an inside left who would drift to the right and thus I could see him more as a right inside than a left winger.

Comparing with Forlán... One difference could be Forlán's willingness to drop deep to get hold of the ball and help advance from there as the playmaker, not sure to what extent that would apply with Meazza. On the other hand, Meazza becoming the centreforward when Cruyff goes left is more appealing to me. Two World Cup wins as the star player for his side also take some beating, don't they? Head over heart, I would pick Meazza really.

I also have a feeling Kempes and Forlán may not work together all that well. I could see Kempes drifting to the exact same territory Forlán occupies and them "getting on the way", while with Meazza that could be a positive, with Meazza switching to inside right and Jairzinho staying wide. No way I'm doing a four-step arrowy thing for you, do you see what I'm getting at though?
 
Another of his memorable moments in that tournament was the goal he scored against Brazil in the semi-final. Italy were awarded a penalty after Silvio Piola, the team's new center forward, was chopped down in the box by "the Divine Master", Domingos da Guia. The Brazilian goalkeeper Walter, who was famous for hypnotizing his opponents and for saving penalties back in Brazil, arrogantly claimed he was certain he would save the shot. Meazza made no fuss, but as he stepped up to take the kick, his shorts fell down because the elastic around the waist had earlier been pulled and ripped by a defender. Meazza, without letting this stress him, pulled up his shorts with one hand and shot past the confused Walter, who was still busy laughing. His celebrating team-mates surrounded him until a new pair of shorts were produced. The goal sent Italy into their second consecutive World Cup final. It was his last goal for Italy.
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:lol:

I think Meazza has to start for you Balu. Forlan's performances in 2010 were the highlight of the tournament for me, but Meazza seems to have been one of the all-time greats.
 
This really. As a RCB, this would be a major headache. Your mark would go from being Cruyff, to being Meazza but he is running in the opposite direction to where he needs to provide cover... and now this hairy fecker... flipflop flipflop

abGeiJgajd.jpg
 
antohan said:
That's exactly how I would use him myself, not too bothered about left or right TBH. Just like when I told Jayvin Schiaffino was an inside left who would drift to the right and thus I could see him more as a right inside than a left winger.

Comparing with Forlán... One difference could be Forlán's willingness to drop deep to get hold of the ball and help advance from there as the playmaker, not sure to what extent that would apply with Meazza. On the other hand, Meazza becoming the centreforward when Cruyff goes left is more appealing to me. Two World Cup wins as the star player for his side also take some beating, don't they? Head over heart, I would pick Meazza really.

I also have a feeling Kempes and Forlán may not work together all that well. I could see Kempes drifting to the exact same territory Forlán occupies and them "getting on the way", while with Meazza that could be a positive, with Meazza switching to inside right and Jairzinho staying wide. No way I'm doing a four-step arrowy thing for you, do you see what I'm getting at though?
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It really would have been boring to assist you, we think way too much alike :lol: . Those were all my exact thoughts when I wanted to pick Meazza. I hoped he might slip through from the beginning and I knew I had to replace Forlan when I pick Kempes, it all came together wonderfully in the end (not thinking of Schnellinger for 2 days almost fecked it all up though).

I wouldn't have brought it up in this thread at all, if I found that damn quote about him playing as an inside left earlier, not sure if rpitroda expected to be up against Meazza instead of Forlan. Thanks a lot guys, all my worries gone now and I'm starting to fall in love with my team more and more.
 
antohan said:
This really. As a RCB, this would be a major headache. Your mark would go from being Cruyff, to being Meazza but he is running in the opposite direction to where he needs to provide cover... and now this hairy fecker... flipflop flipflop

abGeiJgajd.jpg
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Yeah, that's one idea, I have a few more and I will unleash them all in form of tactic-picture-comic-this11-graphics whatever you want to call them.
 
Balu said:
It really would have been boring to assist you, we think way too much alike :lol: . Those were all my exact thoughts when I wanted to pick Meazza. I hoped he might slip through from the beginning and I knew I had to replace Forlan when I pick Kempes, it all came together wonderfully in the end (not thinking of Schnellinger for 2 days almost fecked it all up though).

I wouldn't have brought it up in this thread at all, if I found that damn quote about him playing as an inside left earlier, not sure if rpitroda expected to be up against Meazza instead of Forlan. Thanks a lot guys, all my worries gone now and I'm starting to fall in love with my team more and more.
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:( Surely you would still have had fun with the "100 different ways to turn someone into an underdog"?
 
It certainly would have been a challenge to find a way to call Matthäus an underdog.
 
Balu said:
It certainly would have been a challenge to find a way to call Matthäus an underdog.
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Matthäus wanted to join team Annah so much that he had to be called an underdog under Antohan. Who'd expect them to click? If there's ever been an underdog it is Matthäus in Anto's side. :nervous:
 
Pat_Mustard said:
:lol:

I think Meazza has to start for you Balu. Forlan's performances in 2010 were the highlight of the tournament for me, but Meazza seems to have been one of the all-time greats.
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I almost fell from my chair when I read that quote earlier today :lol:.
 


Looks cocky enough, doesn't he? Fun fact: Meazza was the only player in the national team who was allowed to smoke. Goes without saying, really. Of course he was allowed to smoke.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Matthäus wanted to join team Annah so much that he had to be called an underdog under Antohan. Who'd expect them to click? If there's ever been an underdog it is Matthäus in Anto's side. :nervous:
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My head is hurting and I still don't get it :lol: Are you saying he had to assume underdog cover to slip through and get to the team he wanted to be in?
 
antohan said:
My head is hurting and I still don't get it :lol: Are you saying he had to assume underdog cover to slip through and get to the team he wanted to be in?
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He is the underdog to be in team Anto because he already had gone out to the press and expressed his desire to be training with team Annah. So he would be an underdog if he went to team Anto after all those headlines. :nervous:
 
Balu said:
I almost fell from my chair when I read that quote earlier today :lol:.
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You didn't know about it? It's one of the classic stories on why Brazil took so long to win a World Cup: naivety. Apparently not just Walter but the entire Brazil team were laughing their bollocks off like schoolboys... and Meazza just brushed it off and focused on the point behind the game: scoring and winning.

I heard it in Brazil years ago, and it was used to highlight how important it was for Brazil to start including more disciplined and focused players in their side (balancing a Garrincha, for example). Not necessarily "non jogo bonito", but the likes of Pelé, Rivelino, Carlos Alberto... or Dunga, Mauro Silva, etc in 94 as opposed to 82 which had been a return to naivety.

It's a classic ongoing debate in Brazil, and it will never end: fantasy vs. "boring" discipline, and finding the right balance for it. I think that was the same show where I saw that tracking run from Kalle I described in Fergus' game (no comments on that, too me ages to capture it :( ). This is pre-2002 WC and it seemed like the guy arguing the case for disciplined had that moment in his mind for 20 years before asking for it to be played on the show. His entire point: he was defending Scolari's defensive/disciplined approach saying that's why Germans win, and that's why Brazil lost in '82... Then the pro-jogo bonito guy said "Then we are fecked because I can't see Ronaldo, Ronaldinho or Rivaldo doing that, are you suggesting we bench them?". :lol:
 
Chesterlestreet said:


Looks cocky enough, doesn't he? Fun fact: Meazza was the only player in the national team who was allowed to smoke. Goes without saying, really. Of course he was allowed to smoke.
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He was a bit of a playboy as well and liked fast cars. Not indisciplined as a Best, but he did occasionally go AWOL. I'm sure if you look around you will find a story of one time he arrived at the San Siro at half-time, smoking and a bit worse for wear, with Inter losing the game. Came on for the second half and scored a hat-trick iirc.
 
antohan said:
You didn't know about it? It's one of the classic stories on why Brazil took so long to win a World Cup: naivety. Apparently not just Walter but the entire Brazil team were laughing their bollocks off like schoolboys... and Meazza just brushed it off and focused on the point behind the game: scoring and winning.

I heard it in Brazil years ago, and it was used to highlight how important it was for Brazil to start including more disciplined and focused players in their side (balancing a Garrincha, for example). Not necessarily "non jogo bonito", but the likes of Pelé, Rivelino, Carlos Alberto... or Dunga, Mauro Silva, etc in 94 as opposed to 82 which had been a return to naivety.

It's a classic ongoing debate in Brazil, and it will never end: fantasy vs. "boring" discipline, and finding the right balance for it. I think that was the same show where I saw that tracking run from Kalle I described in Fergus' game (no comments on that, too me ages to capture it :( ). This is pre-2002 WC and it seemed like the guy arguing the case for disciplined had that moment in his mind for 20 years before asking for it to be played on the show. His entire point: he was defending Scolari's defensive/disciplined approach saying that's why Germans win, and that's why Brazil lost in '82... Then the pro-jogo bonito guy said "Then we are fecked because I can't see Ronaldo, Ronaldinho or Rivaldo doing that, are you suggesting we bench them?". :lol:
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Nope don't think I've ever heard of it, maybe I did and just forgot about and could enjoy it once again, I'm good either way. I really enjoyed reading your post about Rummenigge, btw. But you followed it up by another huge post, on which I commented, so I might have missed to add a 'great post' for the first one ;). I didn't go unnoticed.
 
Annahnomoss said:
He is the underdog to be in team Anto because he already had gone out to the press and expressed his desire to be training with team Annah. So he would be an underdog if he went to team Anto after all those headlines. :nervous:
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It's hurting even more now. What? :confused:

:lol:
 
I wasn't going to comment on that Rummenigge post of course. :lol: Way too pro-Fergus to bring it up further. I chose to focus on your overall post of the game instead!
 
Balu said:
Nope don't think I've ever heard of it, maybe I did and just forgot about and could enjoy it once again, I'm good either way. I really enjoyed reading your post about Rummenigge, btw. But you followed it up by another huge post, on which I commented, so I might have missed to add a 'great post' for the first one ;). I didn't go unnoticed.
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The reference to Forrest Gump was exactly what I thought at the time. The pro-jogo bonito guy (I think it was Gerson) kept complaining about discipline=robots with no imagination, and on comes that clip with Kalle looking every bit a runaway malfunctioning robot. I wouldn't have been surprised if he crashed into the advertising boards, looked completely mindless. Wasn't.
 
I really need to watch that game sometime or search for that scene somewhere :lol: .
 
antohan said:
He was a bit of a playboy as well and liked fast cars. Not indisciplined as a Best, but he did occasionally go AWOL. I'm sure if you look around you will find a story of one time he arrived at the San Siro at half-time, smoking and a bit worse for wear, with Inter losing the game. Came on for the second half and scored a hat-trick iirc.
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Yes - he was among the first examples of a real (almost) modern style superstar of football. I read somewhere that he was the first player ever to have personal sponsors.

So, Balu - make sure you field the hung-over version of the great man: should give Trippy some material if it comes to penalities...
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yes - he was among the first examples of a real (almost) modern style superstar of football. I read somewhere that he was the first player ever to have personal sponsors.
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Possibly. Leonidas was that in Brazil but I guess Meazza had a headstart on him.
 
antohan said:
Exactly, having one in 34 as well is what I call a headstart!
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Indeed I was more referring to the spectacles of the '38 tournament. Leonidas was just 25 years old and hadn't yet reached his peak which would have been in the 1942 WC instead. Meazza was 28.

Leonidas was the not only the top-scorer but also dominant performer and entertainer of the matches until the Semi Finals when Meazza's Italy faced Leonidas Brazil. Leonidas was rested because the manager was so sure they'd go through against Italy(previous winners). Meazza than scored that infamous penalty which brought Italy to the final.

Meazza unfortunately failed to re-create his 1934 WC and saw 6 of his teammates in the team of the tournament but was himself excluded. He had some troubles finding form through some nagging injuries. Leonidas himself got injured after a ruthless bashing from the Czechs which was similar to Pele's experience in '66.

Imagine if we could have these sort of stories in todays World-Cups? Naked Penalty deciders, benching the greatest player in the world at the time in a Semi Final against the reigning WC winners?
 
*sigh* Germany had to wait until the 70ties when Netzer started the whole marketing thing by using his name as a brand to make money. No wonder our pre '70 players are so underrated, when Brazil and Italy started it 40 years earlier.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yes - he was among the first examples of a real (almost) modern style superstar of football. I read somewhere that he was the first player ever to have personal sponsors.

So, Balu - make sure you field the hung-over version of the great man: should give Trippy some material if it comes to penalities...
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Considering I'm playing Balu, I for one hope that it does NOT go to penalties (too stressful). Even if it did, I wouldn't be able to commentate =P.
 
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