Fantasy Draft DISCUSSION ONLY Thread

I dont think many would disagree that he is a good player but he was clearly a failure in the Premier League and not only for 1 season or at 1 club.

You could pick Forlan, Poborsky or Shevchenko for qualities they showed outside the Prem but all of them will be remembered as failures based on their time in England.

He can't really be considered a failure at Chelsea because injuries and never being given a proper chance disrupted him. If he had managed to stay fit I think he could have performed brilliantly in Gudjohnsen's role.
 
I dont think many would disagree that he is a good player but he was clearly a failure in the Premier League and not only for 1 season or at 1 club.

You could pick Forlan, Poborsky or Shevchenko for qualities they showed outside the Prem but all of them will be remembered as failures based on their time in England.

He was a failure yes, in terms of his price tag and expectations. But his quality is undoubted and if you look at his ability to run a midfield then it's obvious why I picked him. I have already explained his ability when he is not shackled by having such a domineering midfielder alongside him which restricts his creativity, and I would have faith in him to show up in a big game to produce the telling pass.
 
He can't really be considered a failure at Chelsea because injuries and never being given a proper chance disrupted him. If he had managed to stay fit I think he could have performed brilliantly in Gudjohnsen's role.

Chelsea paid £15m for him and he played 7 matches - if that isnt an EPIC FAIL then I dont know what is.

Edit: He also played 80 matches for other teams while he was a Chelsea player so it is not down to injuries - just couldnt adapt to English football.
 
Chelsea paid £15m for him and he played 7 matches - if that isnt an EPIC FAIL then I dont know what is.

All I'm saying is, his failure at Chelsea wasn't down to his football, because like you said he only made 7 appearances. It was his injuries which hampered him. If he had managed to stay fit then I have no doubt he would have done well at SB, particularly under Mourinho.
 
Chelsea paid £15m for him and he played 7 matches - if that isnt an EPIC FAIL then I dont know what is.

Edit: He also played 80 matches for other teams while he was a Chelsea player so it is not down to injuries - just couldnt adapt to English football.

Agreed with esmufc that he would have done well under Mourinho if given the license to do what he does best. If I don't remember wrongly he started for Chelsea along the same vein of form that he shown in the preseason tour of USA, but he fell away due to injuries that season. He wasn't given a proper chance as he was shipped out immediately after Mourinho came in. Ranieri didn't give him a fair chance really, with them playing 4-4-2 if I remember correctly with the long standing partnership of Gudjohnsen and Hasselbaink.
 
Agreed with esmufc that he would have done well under Mourinho if given the license to do what he does best.

Mourinho never bought him back to Chelsea eventhough he was fully fit, playing well and Chelsea were still paying his wages - for me the reason is that he just wasnt suited to English football.

From 'The Times' list of the worst transfers ever:

Juan Sebastian Veron, Lazio to Manchester United, £28.1m, July 2001; United to Chelsea, £15m, August 2003
To spare the Argentinian from appearing twice, these two moves have been placed together. If anything, Chelsea’s signing was worse, given that they knew Veron had failed to adjust to English football.
 
I agree Melvin. Veron was, is and always will be a legend in my eyes. Always played well in Europe aswell (Not that that matters in this - just making the point). He also had a brilliant pre-season the summer we sold him.

That ball over to Ruud v Juventus:drool:

.... I can understand if you like him.... but legend? You mean, footballing legend in general right? Not United legend...
 
Mourinho never bought him back to Chelsea eventhough he was fully fit, playing well and Chelsea were still paying his wages - for me the reason is that he just wasnt suited to English football.

From 'The Times' list of the worst transfers ever:

Juan Sebastian Veron, Lazio to Manchester United, £28.1m, July 2001; United to Chelsea, £15m, August 2003
To spare the Argentinian from appearing twice, these two moves have been placed together. If anything, Chelsea’s signing was worse, given that they knew Veron had failed to adjust to English football.

Yes he could not adapt to the pace of English football or whatsoever, but that doesn't detract his performances in big games which were top drawer. For all his failures in England, you can still see a player brim full of talent even when he was not performing to the best of his abilities on a consistent basis. It might have been infuriating to have seen him play then, but you can still see his moments that can make all the difference, and regardless of his supposed failings, this is the reason why I picked him to turn a game on its head.
 
With regards to Veron, he was never good in this league. Sorry. You might like him, you might love him for what he's done for Argentina internationally, Inter, Lazio or even in his time back home, but in the Premier League he was utter rubbish. Few can pick out games where he was outstanding, there are not even that many individual brilliant moments (about 2 examples have been given for United and Chelsea) and I was surprised he was picked for this.

An extremely talented player, one which I wouldn't actually have sold at the time and was disappointed we did. I'd have liked to have seen him given more time, but with the benefit of hindsight, we robbed Chelsea of £15m and I'm glad we did. As said, good player, didn't see out his potential in England.
 
1) SharkyMcShark: Schmeichel, Pallister, Bruce, Ashley Cole, Fowler, Butt, Di Matteo, Finnan, Park
2) R.Nilsson7: Henry, Makelele, G. Neville, Toure, Duff, Cudicini, Saha, Woodgate, J. Redknap
3) The Law of Denis: Shearer, McGrath, Ince, Di Canio, A Young, Southgate, Mcmanaman, Speed, Lauren
4) esmufc09: Cantona, Adams, Carrick, Given, Clichy, Adebayor, Gudjohnsen, Wright-Phillips, Neill
5) Ace: Ruud, Le Tissier, Campbell, Overmars, Yeboah, James, Silvestre, Harte, Asprilla

6) Solius: Giggs, Irwin, Seaman, Berbatov, L. Ferdinand, Arteta, Brown, P. Neville, Laursen
7) Erics Collar: Keane, Vidic, Yorke, Robben, Tevez, Mellberg, Okocha, Radebe, Bridge, Parlour
8) M13 Red: Bergkamp, Lampard, Torres, Reina, Hyypia, Mascherano, Barry, Melchiot, Bentley, Heinze
9) roodboy: Scholes, Owen, Terry, Klinsmann, Petit, Waddle, Barnes, D. Walker, Petrescu, Staunton
10) Cal?: C.Ronaldo, VDS, Essien, Sheringham, Johnsen, Van Persie, Beardsley, Gullit, Sylvinho, Babbel
11) Smash-E: Cech, Gerrard, Hughes, Carragher, Ljungberg, Hasselbaink, Gallas, Sharpe, Leboeuf, McAllister
12) Danish Voice: Evra, Andy Cole, Carvalho, Alonso, Martyn, Gilberto, Dixon, Anderton, Hendry, Hleb
13) SirAF: R. Ferdinand, Beckham, Wright, Cahill, Wise, J Cole, Barthez, O'Shea, Viduka, Baines
14) Fort Boyard: Vieira, Fabregas, Pires, Kanchelskis, Anelka, Sagna, Le Saux, Berg, King, Diarra
15) Vinay: Ole, Stam, Batty, Drogba, Juninho,Friedel, Agbonlahor, Winterburn, Albert, Downing
16) Melvin Yeo: Rooney, Zola, Ginola, Desailly, Pearce, Poyet, Hamman, Veron, L Young, Henchoz
 
1) SharkyMcShark: Schmeichel, Pallister, Bruce, Ashley Cole, Fowler, Butt, Di Matteo, Finnan, Park
2) R.Nilsson7: Henry, Makelele, G. Neville, Toure, Duff, Cudicini, Saha, Woodgate, J. Redknap
3) The Law of Denis: Shearer, McGrath, Ince, Di Canio, A Young, Southgate, Mcmanaman, Speed, Lauren
4) esmufc09: Cantona, Adams, Carrick, Given, Clichy, Adebayor, Gudjohnsen, Wright-Phillips, Neill

5) Ace: Ruud, Le Tissier, Campbell, Overmars, Yeboah, James, Silvestre, Harte, Asprilla
6) Solius: Giggs, Irwin, Seaman, Berbatov, L. Ferdinand, Arteta, Brown, P. Neville, Laursen, Solano
7) Erics Collar: Keane, Vidic, Yorke, Robben, Tevez, Mellberg, Okocha, Radebe, Bridge, Parlour
8) M13 Red: Bergkamp, Lampard, Torres, Reina, Hyypia, Mascherano, Barry, Melchiot, Bentley, Heinze
9) roodboy: Scholes, Owen, Terry, Klinsmann, Petit, Waddle, Barnes, D. Walker, Petrescu, Staunton
10) Cal?: C.Ronaldo, VDS, Essien, Sheringham, Johnsen, Van Persie, Beardsley, Gullit, Sylvinho, Babbel
11) Smash-E: Cech, Gerrard, Hughes, Carragher, Ljungberg, Hasselbaink, Gallas, Sharpe, Leboeuf, McAllister
12) Danish Voice: Evra, Andy Cole, Carvalho, Alonso, Martyn, Gilberto, Dixon, Anderton, Hendry, Hleb
13) SirAF: R. Ferdinand, Beckham, Wright, Cahill, Wise, J Cole, Barthez, O'Shea, Viduka, Baines
14) Fort Boyard: Vieira, Fabregas, Pires, Kanchelskis, Anelka, Sagna, Le Saux, Berg, King, Diarra
15) Vinay: Ole, Stam, Batty, Drogba, Juninho,Friedel, Agbonlahor, Winterburn, Albert, Downing
16) Melvin Yeo: Rooney, Zola, Ginola, Desailly, Pearce, Poyet, Hamman, Veron, L Young, Henchoz
 
Fair enough - I never really rated Neill

I've got at least 3 right backs who I am suprised have not been picked yet (although one also played a lot on the wing).

If they are not picked at all then i will reveal my list of players that i considered at the end...

I was talking about Solano here - good pick !
 
1) SharkyMcShark: Schmeichel, Pallister, Bruce, Ashley Cole, Fowler, Butt, Di Matteo, Finnan, Park
2) R.Nilsson7: Henry, Makelele, G. Neville, Toure, Duff, Cudicini, Saha, Woodgate, J. Redknap
3) The Law of Denis: Shearer, McGrath, Ince, Di Canio, A Young, Southgate, Mcmanaman, Speed, Lauren
4) esmufc09: Cantona, Adams, Carrick, Given, Clichy, Adebayor, Gudjohnsen, Wright-Phillips, Neill
5) Ace: Ruud, Le Tissier, Campbell, Overmars, Yeboah, James, Silvestre, Harte, Asprilla, Davids
6) Solius: Giggs, Irwin, Seaman, Berbatov, L. Ferdinand, Arteta, Brown, P. Neville, Laursen, Solano
7) Erics Collar: Keane, Vidic, Yorke, Robben, Tevez, Mellberg, Okocha, Radebe, Bridge, Parlour
8) M13 Red: Bergkamp, Lampard, Torres, Reina, Hyypia, Mascherano, Barry, Melchiot, Bentley, Heinze
9) roodboy: Scholes, Owen, Terry, Klinsmann, Petit, Waddle, Barnes, D. Walker, Petrescu, Staunton
10) Cal?: C.Ronaldo, VDS, Essien, Sheringham, Johnsen, Van Persie, Beardsley, Gullit, Sylvinho, Babbel
11) Smash-E: Cech, Gerrard, Hughes, Carragher, Ljungberg, Hasselbaink, Gallas, Sharpe, Leboeuf, McAllister
12) Danish Voice: Evra, Andy Cole, Carvalho, Alonso, Martyn, Gilberto, Dixon, Anderton, Hendry, Hleb
13) SirAF: R. Ferdinand, Beckham, Wright, Cahill, Wise, J Cole, Barthez, O'Shea, Viduka, Baines
14) Fort Boyard: Vieira, Fabregas, Pires, Kanchelskis, Anelka, Sagna, Le Saux, Berg, King, Diarra
15) Vinay: Ole, Stam, Batty, Drogba, Juninho,Friedel, Agbonlahor, Winterburn, Albert, Downing
16) Melvin Yeo: Rooney, Zola, Ginola, Desailly, Pearce, Poyet, Hamman, Veron, L Young, Henchoz
 
Hehe, Davids has featured in exactly 40 Premier League games.
I wouldn't really call him that big of a success though, and I can still think of a couple CMs who's done a lot more in the premier League than he has.

But I doubt people will be able to judge the players solely on the premier and thus a name like Edgar Davids will look good.
 
Hehe, Davids has featured in exactly 40 Premier League games.
I wouldn't really call him that big of a success though, and I can still think of a couple CMs who's done a lot more in the premier League than he has.

But I doubt people will be able to judge the players solely on the premier and thus a name like Edgar Davids will look good.

I so wanted to pick Bryan Robson, but no 40 PL games... :(
 
I so wanted to pick Bryan Robson, but no 40 PL games... :(

There are quite a few legends from the eighties who's got over 40 Premier League games - players whose names would look mighty good on paper based on the name alone. But they were all playing in the Premier League in the latter stages of their careers, so if whoever is voting is being pedantic then it won't result in many votes.
Even though one of the old legends, who I'm thinking of, did in fact have some okay'ish seasons in the Premier League.
 
Hehe, Davids has featured in exactly 40 Premier League games.
I wouldn't really call him that big of a success though, and I can still think of a couple CMs who's done a lot more in the premier League than he has.

But I doubt people will be able to judge the players solely on the premier and thus a name like Edgar Davids will look good.

Noticed his honours include the ones at Ajax and Juve, to throw everyone off ;)

But Yeah Cal, I was tempted to pick Robson too :P
 
Hehe, Davids has featured in exactly 40 Premier League games.
I wouldn't really call him that big of a success though, and I can still think of a couple CMs who's done a lot more in the premier League than he has.

But I doubt people will be able to judge the players solely on the premier and thus a name like Edgar Davids will look good.

Dont worry, there will be voting procedure to eliminate this. ;)

My team going in to Round 11:


..................Bridge................Robben

..................Vidic.........Keane(c)........Tevez
Goalkeeper
..................Radebe..........Okocha.........Yorke

..................
Mellberg............Parlour
 
My team

------------------ Seaman -------------------
?????? ----- Brown ----- Laursen ----- Irwin
Solano ----- Arteta ----- Neville ------ Giggs
------------- Berbatov -- Ferdinand ---------

or

Plenty of interchangeability, may move brown to RB and get a CB, or Solano to RB and get a winger, of move Solano to RB, Arteta wide and get a CM, etc...

------------------ Seaman -------------------
Solano ----- Brown ----- Laursen ----- Irwin
Arteta ----- ?????? ----- Neville ------ Giggs
------------- Berbatov -- Ferdinand ---------



How do you feel about leaving your keeper last Eric? Do you have one in mind?
 
Had one in mind for a few rounds, but to be honest, theres been far more than 16 quality keepers in the league (albeit none up to Schmeichel's level) so it was always gonne be my last pick.
 
-------------------------James
----xxx-----Campbell-----Silvestre----Harte
Asprilla----Le Tissier-----Davids-----Overmars
-----------------Yeboah
-----------------------van Nistelrooy
 
My team

------------------ Seaman -------------------
?????? ----- Brown ----- Laursen ----- Irwin
Solano ----- Arteta ----- Neville ------ Giggs
------------- Berbatov -- Ferdinand ---------

or

Plenty of interchangeability, may move brown to RB and get a CB, or Solano to RB and get a winger, of move Solano to RB, Arteta wide and get a CM, etc...

------------------ Seaman -------------------
Solano ----- Brown ----- Laursen ----- Irwin
Arteta ----- ?????? ----- Neville ------ Giggs
------------- Berbatov -- Ferdinand ---------



How do you feel about leaving your keeper last Eric? Do you have one in mind?

I'd play P. Neville at fullback
 
Didnt have a clue who to pick this time and I needed to get it done quick. Nah, I'll just stick Sheasie in the middle with Rio, probably.

Personally, I think O'Shea is a safer option at one of the FB positions. If not left, since you have Baines, in your place, I'd stick O'Shea at RB.
 
I certainly have my favourites looking down the lists! :D

And since it was mentioned, I am also very pedantic and will only consider Premier League performances. Not FA Cup, not Champions League, not abroad or Internationally.
 
------------------ Barthez -------------------
O'Shea ----- Ferdinand(c) ----- ???? ----- Baines
Beckham ----- Cahill ----- Wise ------ J.Cole
------------- I.Wright -- Viduka ---------
 
1) SharkyMcShark: Schmeichel, Pallister, Bruce, Ashley Cole, Fowler, Butt, Di Matteo, Finnan, Park
2) R.Nilsson7: Henry, Makelele, G. Neville, Toure, Duff, Cudicini, Saha, Woodgate, J. Redknap
3) The Law of Denis: Shearer, McGrath, Ince, Di Canio, A Young, Southgate, Mcmanaman, Speed, Lauren, Lescott
4) esmufc09: Cantona, Adams, Carrick, Given, Clichy, Adebayor, Gudjohnsen, Wright-Phillips, Neill, Lee
5) Ace: Ruud, Le Tissier, Campbell, Overmars, Yeboah, James, Silvestre, Harte, Asprilla, Davids
6) Solius: Giggs, Irwin, Seaman, Berbatov, L. Ferdinand, Arteta, Brown, P. Neville, Laursen, Solano
7) Erics Collar: Keane, Vidic, Yorke, Robben, Tevez, Mellberg, Okocha, Radebe, Bridge, Parlour
8) M13 Red: Bergkamp, Lampard, Torres, Reina, Hyypia, Mascherano, Barry, Melchiot, Bentley, Heinze
9) roodboy: Scholes, Owen, Terry, Klinsmann, Petit, Waddle, Barnes, D. Walker, Petrescu, Staunton
10) Cal?: C.Ronaldo, VDS, Essien, Sheringham, Johnsen, Van Persie, Beardsley, Gullit, Sylvinho, Babbel
11) Smash-E: Cech, Gerrard, Hughes, Carragher, Ljungberg, Hasselbaink, Gallas, Sharpe, Leboeuf, McAllister
12) Danish Voice: Evra, Andy Cole, Carvalho, Alonso, Martyn, Gilberto, Dixon, Anderton, Hendry, Hleb
13) SirAF: R. Ferdinand, Beckham, Wright, Cahill, Wise, J Cole, Barthez, O'Shea, Viduka, Baines
14) Fort Boyard: Vieira, Fabregas, Pires, Kanchelskis, Anelka, Sagna, Le Saux, Berg, King, Diarra
15) Vinay: Ole, Stam, Batty, Drogba, Juninho,Friedel, Agbonlahor, Winterburn, Albert, Downing
16) Melvin Yeo: Rooney, Zola, Ginola, Desailly, Pearce, Poyet, Hamman, Veron, L Young, Henchoz


Another goal threat to my team!

-----------------xxx
--Lauren----McGrath---Southgate---Lescott
-------------Speed-----------Ince
---Mcmanaman--------Di Canio-----Young---
--------------Shearer
 
I have my final player selected in my head, if someone picks him I have a back up choice but will have to rotate my team around.