Who would be?
I agree we need a disciplined midfield anchor.
Edit: seen your response above.
Fabinho
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Who would be?
I agree we need a disciplined midfield anchor.
Edit: seen your response above.
Maybe, just maybe, we decide to redirect our CM and Perisic funds for Ronaldo, and let Tuanzebe have the chance to the DM? I think with enough guidance, he can be a great DM with his composure, pace and passing. We did buy Lindelof, so that should be our CB pairing with Bailly for a long time. Hence, DM, where Axel played for a bit last season, would be a good place for him I think.
Was just thinking more on it and I would prefer basically a Carrick with more athleticism but do you know Saul of Atletico. I doubt it's going to happen but coming through and with his time at Rayo he was always touted as a DM. I think for example he has far more intelligence than Fabinho and has more aware of his surroundings. Now I know Herrera did a job as sort of the holder but I would think Saul would be better at such a job.
A conversation would have course had to be had with him to explain what is required of him but when he and Koke have been played together I've been really impressed.
I think Saul would develop in to a player with similar traits to Carrick but with the aggression and physicality Carrick was often lambasted for lacking.
I'm genuinely confused by that lack of awareness or positioning mention. The reason Fabinho considered by a lot of people like Monaco's most important player is precisely because of those two qualities, his job was to cover for Bakayoko and Sidibé at the same time because both are prone to concentration lapses.
I kind of suspect that @Andersons Dietician only watched the end of season where Fabinho was very fatigued.
I kind of suspect that @Andersons Dietician only watched the end of season where Fabinho was very fatigued.
No I watched from September onwards. I started watching to see Lemar then obviously Monaco were one of the most entertaining teams last year so I just started watching for some enjoyment.
Obviously everyone is going to see different things and judge player on what they perceive as what that player should be doing. For me he isn't positionally astute and it's not as if Mendy on the other side doesn't have positional lapses and loves going forward. So it's not as if the same issue isn't happening on the other flank that Bakayoko frequents.
He is not the player for us, people are obviously more than welcome to disagree with that but I prefer intelligent players to those that rely souly on their athletic ability.
You are the first person to say that about Fabinho, that he relies on athleticism over intelligence. @NYAS what do you think about it?
It's like that Derby manager that said something along the lines of "there has been some improvement, last week we conceded 6, this week it's only 4"
Using Fellaini and creative in the same sentence is laughable. He's as creative as a mental patient scribbling on the walls with his turds.
The only aspect of his athleticism that is even notable is his stamina - and I don't mean that as in he's a lung-bursting Kanté or Ji-Sung Park type. He usually doesn't tire much within the games and doesn't fade away towards the end of them. His strength is average, for example.
It's a very strange opinion. His mind is his strongest weapon. Even his tackles aren't aggressive or violent, they're as clean as a whistle and his interceptions and reading of the game are the things he is best at. For example, he's nothing like William Carvalho or Fernando or Wanyama.
Well maybe the first person you've seen as I've seen quite a few mention it also.
I know comparing teams from different leagues and stats from player to player isn't great but he is some 30 odd interceptions off of the top 3 in our league and an inception ok not an exact science but I would say that sort of reflects on an ability to read what is happening.
Also having watched him I know that a lot of the times he is chasing back at someone to win a ball so to me that is only because he made a mistake. Obviously sometimes a player will be far away from him maybe on another player and he cleans up a situation but more often than not a bit like Phil jones and Valencia he is reactionary instead of reading what is happening.
For me he isn't the guy I'd want anchoring our midfield as he lacks the discipline and intelligence to do so. Each to their own of course. I'd prefer a more disciplined intelligent player and for me Fabinho is not those things having watched 90% of their season.
If we weren't going for a DM type I'd rather have seen about Tolliso or Saul who for me have more intelligence and are more astute in positioning although neither are directly DM's but if we want someone that will maraud alla Matudi then I'd rather one of those two than Fabinho as really for me he isn't a good enough player to fit in with what Jose I think would want.
Tolisso is more astute in his positiioning? Also by your logic Tolisso who has 36 interceptions, against 54 for Fabinho, should be a worse reader of the game.
Would you say Daley Blind is more like the type of player you want to see playing as a DM for us?Tolisso isn't proven enough, and Saul is more of a box to box player than a lone DM player.
I think Fabinho would a great partner for Pogba in a midfield two, but if Jose is looking at a midfield three, Carvalho/Danilo Pereira would be good shouts. Both are blessed with good physicality, with Carvalho probably a bit slow but excellent technically and passing wise and Danilo, a defensive colossus. They would complete our midifield trio alongwith Pogba, Herrera. I am starting to feel that Jose sees Tuanzebe as a legitimate back up option in that position. I believe he has all the tools to be a star in the defensive midifeld role, better than TFM and the sense of positioning would only improve more after given proper games to play.
I did say it's not an exact science and that comparing teams and stats isn't a true reflection. If you watch both players Tolliso has a far greater football IQ.
I can't dictate what you see if you don't think Tolliso is the more intelligent player then that is fine. But like I said for me Fabinho is not a DM, is not intelligent enough to anchor a midfield and for me would be a horrible partner for Pogba as I just don't think he has it in him to adapt that aspect of his game. He plays in midfield like he is still playing as a RB.
That's harsh on a mental patient
I like the intelligence of Blind unfortunately his intelligence doesn't cover his lack of athletic ability which is a shame because yes on the ball he is something or someone I'd like there. However often he gets exposed in midfield or last time I saw him there he was.
There is also the question of how people expect us to play 433 or 4231? I think most likely it'll be 4231. Jose kept going back to it and trying to make Pogba a CM which near the end of the season he had started to succeed in doing.
Saul was always touted as a DM coming through and now yeah he plays as a b2b but he is quite intelligent and I think someone who could be mounded to be a more aggressive athletic version of Carrick. Who I think would do well with Pogba in the 2 as he is very aware of his positioning and others on the field.
I haven't seen all that much of Danilo but hasn't he kept Neves out of the line up and also didn't he keep Casemiro out of the line up when he was there?
Carvalho I do like, he is that kind of sit protect and just cover Pogba and allow him to do his thing, I think that is more what we need than Fabinho as I don't see those things in his game. Also this is Jose so it's likely to be a more big strong athletic guy but even then I really can't see Jose going for Fabinho.
Still wondrting which midfielder Jose likes to buy
He's fairly creative with his chest and head. Saved us some times last season.
So like modern art then?
He's destructive, not creative in the slightest. It works at times but he's still one of the many mid table players we have accumulated over the past few years.
A through ball against Rostov.. i was mistaken, we should give him the 7 shirt.
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Yeah I remember how it works from when Barca did it with Turan and Vidal but why sit out 6 months without playing when you're on the up as a player and another season like last season would surely see every big club in Europe after him ? Atletico couldn't play him til January whereas in a worst case scenario he'd stay at Monaco and play Champions League football and challenge for the domestic title again.
Athleticism doesn't just mean strength. Also he is deceptively strong think back to how he wins back possession. It's mostly in a race or battle with someone. He really isn't the intelligent ball winner you two are portraying.
I guess perception depends on how you're brought up, who you watched and your understanding of football. For me he's not intelligent. He's not disciplined, he's not positionally astute hence why he has to chase people. He reacts then relies on his chasing ability.
Your interpretation of athletic is quite basic. Two you mentioned for sure are strong but Wanyama and Carvalho are disciplined, they keep it simple, they do their job. They read play, cover for others and are positionally aware something Fabinho is not.
I'm not comparing Carvalho/Wanyama's positional sense with Fabinho's, but their tackling and the way they win the ball back aggressively in their duels. In fact, ironically, the way they play is more accurately described by your first paragraph. They win the balls mostly by physical battles and aggressive tackles as opposed to Carrick-type clean interceptions (although Carvalho is quite a good interceptor when he wants to be).
I think you're confusing mobility with a lack of positional sense. Fabinho is more mobile than the other two, especially given the way Monaco play. This doesn't mean he's an energizer bunny like Kante, there aren't just two extremes.
My point is when you factor in Pogba, Fabinho is not what you want. He will not sit, he isnt positionally aware of his surroundings. I'm not even sure why you brought those two in to the conversation other than to highlight they use strength. Which is what Fabinho in a way also does as he isn't that great of an interceptor he gets in to a fight with people.
I really am struggiling to understand what you are trying to say with "I think you're confusing mobility with a lack of positional sense"
He runs around a good bit and likes to go forward, if he was positionally astute and aware of his surroundings and again factor in Pogba that's not going to work well. Example Fellaini and Pogba last year. Fellaini likes to do things similar to Fabinho and they were awful together.
Fabinho is not the guy to sit there and read the play that is occurring in front of him and adjust to it. He plays the position like he is still playing as a RB.
These people that think he'll sit at the base of a 3 or in a 2 and allow the team to flourish in my opinion have taken a trip through a magical well to wonderland if they think he can do that job well.
If the idea is just to play he and Pogba like Monaco did with Pogba lite(baka) and Fabinho there are better b2b options than Fabinho. I'd rather stick with Herrera bring in Renato then let Fosu and Axel be options for that position if we want a defensive box to box and use Carrick occasionally when we need that smart cultured DM. Then look again next summer if Fosu doesn't step up.
I really don't understand that we aren't interested.
So, basically, you're saying we are better off with Fosu-Mensah (that Mourinho never puts in the center of midfield) or Tuanzebe than Fabinho. What extremes people go to make a point!
We are just too far apart in our opinions. The basis of my observations is that I have watched every Monaco game for the past two seasons, which has coincided with Fabinho starting to take a more regular role in the midfield. Every week I see mainly the opposite of what you're saying. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
No I said 'I'd rather' that is a difference and I said use Herrera. That's completely different from what you just mutilated my post to be.
The extremes people will go to just to be heard
Forgive me because I did also watch them last year when he was predominately a RB and only really became a midfielder this season with the arrival of Sidbie.
I mean my watching the player and what I see makes me think you and Rouve have never watched him we are so far apart but I'm sure you guys will have. This is what a forum is about discussing different points of view. I'd rather look elsewhere as I don't think he is the player we need and if we were to go for him I think we would need a DM to cover him and then he isn't good enough with the ball to have a first team position.
I think many, including myself, would disagree with your assessment of Fabinho. More impressive is that this is his first season starting consistently in a DM position.
Scouting Monaco’s Fabinho – From Full Back to Midfield said:
I mean who is Lee Scott? He's a fan just like you or I that took the time to contribute to a site. You or I can do that.
What's funnier is the article backs a lot of what I said and totally contradicts the idea that guy is portraying that he is an intelligent player. He spends a lot of time talking about his athletic abilities and recovery at getting back at people.
Sorry I just really don't think he is the guy you lot are portraying him as. He also isn't playing as a DM now. He's a box to box player currently.
From what I read on here people are wanting him to play in a 3. Him sitting as a 6. That isn't his game. He's not good enough on the ball or at reading the game. He relies on recovery.
The article does not support your claim on what position he plays and how he plays.
You claim that he is currently a box2box which involves more of a vertical movement, when what he mainly does is a sideways coverage of the attacking fullbacks. Fabinho's athletic abilities are required for his role and not a reflection of his poor reading the game as you are claiming. His job involves discouraging attacks through the middle and then recovering to cover once the opposition is forced wide.
Your opinion of him is one I have not heard from anyone else, including regular watchers of ligue 1 and Monaco. He is almost unanimously described as the best DM prospect but you see him as a box2box CM, which in of itself is enough to render the rest of your evaluation not worth considering.
Sorry but that is nonsense.
He will never be a box to box midfielder.
He has only just adapted to being a DCM after years as a right back.
He ain't ever gonna be a Lampard.
To play devil's advocate... He wouldn't need elite physical attributes if he wasn't continually "bypassed in the midfield" as the article states...
For Monaco he would because he covers two positions at once.
I don't see how anyone can seriously think a player who is proactive in his approach to the anchor role, is less intelligent positionally than one who sits. Fabinho plays the anchor in midfield role in the way a Keane did. He hunts for the ball and snuffs out danger. That is why at times he will
have to chase down an escaping opponent. Which is not because he has made a mistake, but rather because he is not letting the opponent successfully attempt to by pass his proactive play. Its actually similar to how Kante does it, but his less high octane.
have to chase down an escaping opponent. Which is not because he has made a mistake, but rather because he is not letting the opponent successfully attempt to by pass his proactive play. Its actually similar to how Kante does it, but his less high octane.
Totally clueless why we are not intrested in him.
3 actually. Both wing backs and his midfield partner.
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