The defensive midfielder, whoever he is, will even have a hard time getting a chance displacing Herrera, if we stick to 4-2-3-1, that is, half our games last season, and you're talking about dominating the midfield?
Fabinho
- Thread starter Maradona10
- Start date
- Status
Herrera is not a DM. If he is he's not a very good one. We might play a midfield 3. With a DM and Herrera and Pogba in front of him.
You seem to think the DM is coming in to replace Herrera? I don't see it like that. So you want to sign Fabinho for £45M but think he'll have trouble replacing Herrera? I don't follow. It's certainly not how I see the team lining up.
EDIT: dominating a midfield doesn't mean dominating our midfield it means dominating the opponents midfield!!!
Herrera might not be a defensive midfielder per se, but he played a lot for us as the most defensive of the midfield pair, the #6 be it either in 4-3-3, where Fellaini is the #8, or 4-2-3-1, like in Europa League final.
The defensive midfielder is not coming to replace Herrera, but to provide serious competition and different characteristics to him, like height, power, etc. You aren't buying dead sure first teamers for that money anymore, look at what he might have to pay for a winger like Perišić.
Aye I'm not claiming he genuinely does but the fact he's said that suggests he wants to move here?
To me the DM should be coming in to provide something that Pogba and Herrera don't. The right DM can work as a perfect midfield 3 with Pogba and Herrera. But the post I was responding to said that the incoming DM "will even have a hard time getting a chance displacing Herrera". I don't think he necessarily has to displace Herrera. I don't see Herrera (who I like - won me over a bit last season) best used as a DM. Whether we see Herrerra as a top, top player is another issue, but he is good. Can keep his place alongside an incoming DM.
Ok, but you're presupposing things others don't have to agree, like we're moving 4-3-3 full time. If we stick to Mourinho's preferred 4-2-3-1, indeed the guy “who come will even have a hard time getting a chance displacing Herrera”. You're supposing we don't buy any midfielder unless we change to 4-3-3 full time, which is ludicrous, since we're lacking as it is.
I guess I am presupposing, because I am imagining how I would line up with a signing we haven't made yet, when I'm not even the manager! But that's all any of us are really doing isn't it? It's OK to all have different opinions on this, we'd all be different managers given the chance. I'm not sure what part you think is ludicrous. If we sign a CDM and assume that Pogba and Herrara keep their place then my preferred formation woudl be 4-3-3, yes. That may change from game to game, players can come in and out. But that's how I would generally envisage it. That's not "ludicrous" as you say is it? How does the bit about us "lacking" relate to this? I honestly don't know what you mean by that, I know we're lacking have been for a long time. But how does that tie in with you thinking my approach to this is ludicrous? Not my fault we're lacking
we're lacking a solid CDM and I'd like us to sign one for sure.What I mean, simply, is that, even if we keep a midfield two, Herrera is not enough, nor in quality (for some games) nor in quantity (for others). When Herrera's injured, for instance in Champions League or top team's games, we can't rely defensively anymore, if we want to compete for the top, on Carrick or Fellaini, that's it.I guess I am presupposing, because I am imagining how I would line up with a signing we haven't made yet, when I'm not even the manager! But that's all any of us are really doing isn't it? It's OK to all have different opinions on this, we'd all be different managers given the chance. I'm not sure what part you think is ludicrous. If we sign a CDM and assume that Pogba and Herrara keep their place then my preferred formation woudl be 4-3-3, yes. That may change from game to game, players can come in and out. But that's how I would generally envisage it. That's not "ludicrous" as you say is it? How does the bit about us "lacking" relate to this? I honestly don't know what you mean by that, I know we're lacking have been for a long time. But how does that tie in with you thinking my approach to this is ludicrous? Not my fault we're lacking
Well I'm suggesting bringing in a CDM so it's going to improve that situation either way isn't it. I thought I was the only one who had a sneaky feeling Herrerra is not good enough. I like him though and think he deserves another chance next year. We've not won the league in too long. I don't want any more players that take too long to "settle". Fabinho represents too much of a risk for me. Yes any player will need to settle into the team. But if they at least know the league they are half way there. Dier knows the league quite well. Matic knows it better and knows how to win it so he is my first choice. Even if I couldn't get Matic or Dier, I wouldn't even look at Fabinho. But that's just me, over to Mourinho....
Thats not a bad shout, he is a very good player. Would need to up his game again over the next year or 2 same as he did last season. If he could do that you'd be talking one of the top midfielders around. We'd never know that until he'd be tested with better players alongside him and against players at the highest level.
Too young?
Not sure its age, exactly, but more experience. Obviously there is a bit of an overlap. An older player with no PL experience would probably be fine, or a younger player with PL experience. Dier is the same age as Fabinho but I can see Mourinho wanting him because he knows the PL. Fabinho is both young and inexperienced in this league, which is probably a bridge too far for him. Ive been a bit up and down in my confidence in getting this deal done but I regard it is completely dead now. I dont know if Dier is a realistic target either, given Levy's position.
I can understand that but with Carrick, we have someone who can play here and there and bring in his experience. On top, if a player is good enough, he will adjust quickly. Dier for me is very overpriced as I doubt he would move for less than 60m. If Jose has no interest in Fabinho, fine, but I believe we should move on with our pursuit for one more midfielder
No.
I largely agree with you but I do also see the benefit of having more experience around than just Carrick. Not to underestimate the impact he will have in the dressing room, but he isn't going to be a regular starter. We need experienced players who are actually going to be on the pitch, regularly.
As I said I would have gone for Fabinho but I don't think Mourinho will and if this is his reasoning it's hard to find fault with it.
Are we going to end up getting the CAF muppet signing because Mou can't get the players he really wants?
Potentially. We really look like we're going to miss out on Dier and Matic who looked like our priority signings in this position, he's the only other DM name we've been linked with.
Isn't it risky signing someone the manager really didn't seem to want just to sign someone.
Compared to signing someone the manager does want - yes.
Compared to not signing anyone - debatable.
That's the big problem isn't it.
Im beginning to think its going to be another big year for Fellaini to be honest.
If Mourinho know what's good for him, he will close this before Monaco shut up shop.
Chelsea and Spurs will not sell us.
Chelsea and Spurs will not sell us.
Maybe, but it's better to not leave ourselves exposed in that position for an entire season to wait and see if the right player might become available.
Is Fabinho a Mendes player?
Matic & Dier are not moving I reckon.
Riskier to go into a season where we will compete in four competitions without signing a midfielder. I do NOT want to see us relying on Fellaini for regular starts, or see Pogba and Herrera ran into the ground from playing every single game.
Hes not coming
Yeah.
TFM. Axel Tuanzbe.
Maybe Blind will get an opportunity there after all. Or maybe TFM will.
I still think the whole 'no interest in Fabinho' is down to a lack of PL experience. Possible targets mentioned so far (if it's not complete twaddle) point toward that.
I think Herrera's underrated as our deepest midfielder, and wouldn't complain about him staying in the role for the coming season. We really need someone to rotate with him though, and as unfairly maligned as Fellaini has been at times, the further away from our goal he is the better. On the right of a three, or even rotating with Pogba, fair enough.
I think Herrera's underrated as our deepest midfielder, and wouldn't complain about him staying in the role for the coming season. We really need someone to rotate with him though, and as unfairly maligned as Fellaini has been at times, the further away from our goal he is the better. On the right of a three, or even rotating with Pogba, fair enough.
If - and quite many people think so - neither Dier nor Matic come to us and at the same time JM indeed does not want Fabinho, the question is "Who are the holding midfielders that are good enough"?
If he doesn't like Fabinho - fair enough, but whom does he like among the players which are considered as good (like Casemiro, Kante, Busquets...)? I mean, the need - a dire need even - for a holding midfielder is blatantly obvious, but whom potentially JM may consider? We are not linked with absolutely anyone in this position apart from matic and dier, but it's not busquets level
If he doesn't like Fabinho - fair enough, but whom does he like among the players which are considered as good (like Casemiro, Kante, Busquets...)? I mean, the need - a dire need even - for a holding midfielder is blatantly obvious, but whom potentially JM may consider? We are not linked with absolutely anyone in this position apart from matic and dier, but it's not busquets level
I agree Herrera can do the job well. And Carrick will hopefully be available enough to give him some breaks. I also have high hopes for TFM in the medium term so would be nice if he did it for cup games etc. BUt still, its a blow to our title ambitions, would rather have Herrera playing further forward and a specialist holding.
We know there is a list of three, my guess is Dier, Matic and then Fabinho in that order of preference. Which other DMs have we been link to?
I don't think it matters who we've been linked to. Media haven't really show any idea to what our targets are this summer.
Yeah. I worry about Carrick in a two these days though. The extra protection from pressing in a three, not so much. A lot of people would like to see TFM given a chance there, but he seemed to get thrown in at fullback more than anything, with Tuanzebe as DM instead.
I suppose if the latter two get plenty of opportunities wherever, we can't really complain.
Really? Plenty of journalists said that we had a big interest in Lukaku but the received wisdom was that his move to Chelsea was a forgone conclusion. Jamie Jackson stated months ago that Lukaku was Mourinho's number 1 target. His three targets for that position were Lukaku, Morate and Belotti. The speculation that we were interested in Lindeloff had been going on for a year. Keane was another target but we ended up with Lindeloff.
This is happening, you read it here folks.
The fact it's so quiet around this one makes me think this Matic and Dier thing is just for fun. I'm willing to bet the fact I'll need sleep tonight on it.
The fact it's so quiet around this one makes me think this Matic and Dier thing is just for fun. I'm willing to bet the fact I'll need sleep tonight on it.
If Fabinho was our first choice CDM target, it would have happened long ago imo. Mourinho likes to get his signings in for pre-season and Monaco apparently have a verbal agreement with Fabinho that he can leave this season, so Monaco wouldn't stand in his way if we go in. Also, given that PSG have bid for him and Monaco have rejected them based on not wanting to strengthen their rival, they would much prefer selling to a foreign club. Fabinho has also said in the media that he would find it very difficult to say no to us, so the player wouldn't object to the move if we did go in for him.
There are also rumours that Monaco don't want to sell Bakayoko and Fabinho in the same window. So if they are right, Monaco would have prioritised selling Fabinho over Bakayoko (assuming the verbal agreement is true) and given that Bakayoko is likely to be announced by Chelsea tomorrow, it again puts a question mark over a Fabinho move.
The price wouldn't exactly be a problem either (£40-45m ish), given that Dier is reportedly valued at £50-60m.
All in all, the only way we sign Fabinho is if the Dier and Matic deals don't work out (as Fabinho is clearly not first choice) and Monaco still agree to sell Fabinho even after all the sales they've already made and reportedly will make (Mendy to City).
Must be something that us poundland scouts are missing with this guy, not a single of the top clubs or even tier 2 clubs in for him.
With the exception of PSG there hasn't been any bids as far as I know.
With the exception of PSG there hasn't been any bids as far as I know.
- Status