F1 2023 Season

hobbers said:
Despite driving the second fastest car on the grid you mean.
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Indeed. Its like in 2021 when Red Bull had the superior Q pace for a while while Merc dominated on race pace. And people were like: "OMG, Red Bull has the quickest car by miles" etc. It never fails. Formula 1 is not a 1 lap sport, contrary to what many seem to believe. LEC and SAI are sitting ducks in the races, there is just nothing they can do.

If RUS had not retired so many times Merc would have been sailing untouched in 2nd place in constructors.

And Hamilton has been whining constantly this is the worst car he as ever driven, and after every practice 1 and 2 its a disaster etc, imagine if he would have driven a Williams for his entire career :-D
 
Lightbringer said:
Indeed. Its like in 2021 when Red Bull had the superior Q pace for a while while Merc dominated on race pace. And people were like: "OMG, Red Bull has the quickest car by miles" etc. It never fails. Formula 1 is not a 1 lap sport, contrary to what many seem to believe. LEC and SAI are sitting ducks in the races, there is just nothing they can do.

If RUS had not retired so many times Merc would have been sailing untouched in 2nd place in constructors.

And Hamilton has been whining constantly this is the worst car he as ever driven, and after every practice 1 and 2 its a disaster etc, imagine if he would have driven a Williams for his entire career :-D
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Why. Ferrari have had loads of retirements to balance that out.

I pop into this thread every now and again and just laugh at the same names going back and forth about RB and Mercedes.

If Hamilton has the second best car and finishes 2nd ahead of Perez in this Red Bull, that is extremely good. Perez isn’t a top tier driver, but the Red Bull is an absolute mile better than anything else on the grid over the course of the season. Similar to how Bottas finished above Max in 2019 and 2020, it would have been impressive for Max to get ahead of Bottas considering the cars.
 
Dan_F said:
Why. Ferrari have had loads of retirements to balance that out.

I pop into this thread every now and again and just laugh at the same names going back and forth about RB and Mercedes.

If Hamilton has the second best car and finishes 2nd ahead of Perez in this Red Bull, that is extremely good. Perez isn’t a top tier driver, but the Red Bull is an absolute mile better than anything else on the grid over the course of the season. Similar to how Bottas finished above Max in 2019 and 2020, it would have been impressive for Max to get ahead of Bottas considering the cars.
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To be fair the only reason Max didn't beat Bottas in 2020 was his cars reliability.

3 technical DNFs and a tyre blowout to Bottas 1 for example.

So I think Max's 2020 and Lewis 2023 are pretty even although Max made a few less big mistakes in 2020 than Hamilton in 2023.

And of course Bottas did better in 2020 than Checo in 2023.

Both impressive seasons by Max and Lewis but I wouldn't say surprising if I'm honest. We know they are miles better than Checo and Bottas.
 
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Ferraris tyre deg has been so much better in the latter half of the season.

The Mercs have been faster in race trim since about a quarter-half of the season.

But they’ve only deserved to start gaining points on Ferrari when they got a lot less draggy in the second half, which means they no longer regularly qualify in, and get stuck behind, the midfield on tracks with long drs straights.
 
Lightbringer said:
Indeed. Its like in 2021 when Red Bull had the superior Q pace for a while while Merc dominated on race pace. And people were like: "OMG, Red Bull has the quickest car by miles" etc. It never fails. Formula 1 is not a 1 lap sport, contrary to what many seem to believe. LEC and SAI are sitting ducks in the races, there is just nothing they can do.

If RUS had not retired so many times Merc would have been sailing untouched in 2nd place in constructors.

And Hamilton has been whining constantly this is the worst car he as ever driven, and after every practice 1 and 2 its a disaster etc, imagine if he would have driven a Williams for his entire career :-D
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But he would not have been driving a Williams would he. For the very simple reason that he is far too good a driver for that to happen.
 
Apparently theres some "bombshell news" comimg out soon. Senior F1 people are in the know as are some journalists, who are keeping it to themselves for now.

The top three rumours for this news:

1. Fernando Alonso is retiring at end of season
2. Lawrence Stroll is selling AM F1 team

the best one of the lot (this would make alot of F1 fans happy) and send F1 viewing figures through the roof...

3. Fernando Alonso is joining Red Bull next season to replace Sergio Perez.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Not been a piece of shit for a while now though has it. It's the second fastest car in race trim over the course of this season. Yeah sometimes McLaren or Ferrari are faster but overall Merc have been better.
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One of the main reasons for Mercedes improvement has been the decision to radically change the design. Something Hamilton was calling for during last season. They carried it on into the start of this season trying to get it to work. Which it never did.
 
Selling AM would hardly be a shock it seems. It's been rumored for a while now. Didn't daddy Stroll meet with potential buyers in the middle east before? Given their epic fall from grace this season as well as Lance being the worst of Lance i just can't imagine they ll retain ownership into next season.

Somewhat similarly, Checo leaving RB would hardly be a surprise as well.
 
Redplane said:
Selling AM would hardly be a shock it seems. It's been rumored for a while now. Didn't daddy Stroll meet with potential buyers in the middle east before? Given their epic fall from grace this season as well as Lance being the worst of Lance i just can't imagine they ll retain ownership into next season.

Somewhat similarly, Checo leaving RB would hardly be a surprise as well.
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Unless its a complete bombshell of Verstappen deciding to retire from F1. Horner did say he might not see out his contract, but he was talkimg retiring ens of 2025 season. Max does have his verstappenracing GT3 team that he cant compete in cause of his F1 commitments.

Maybe RB are sandbagging more than we think and verstappen has got bored. RB have done the sims for 2024 and he will sleep drive to another title with no competition. So no challenge for him.

Mercedes sandbagged the entire 2014 season. After first race they were so far ahead, they didnt run the engine in max power mode for the rest of the season. We only learnt this years later.

It would have to be something that crazy, to be "bomb shell".
 
dinostar77 said:
Unless its a complete bombshell of Verstappen deciding to retire from F1. Horner did say he might not see out his contract, but he was talkimg retiring ens of 2025 season. Max does have his verstappenracing GT3 team that he cant compete in cause of his F1 commitments.

Maybe RB are sandbagging more than we think and verstappen has got bored. RB have done the sims for 2024 and he will sleep drive to another title with no competition. So no challenge for him.

Mercedes sandbagged the entire 2014 season. After first race they were so far ahead, they didnt run the engine in max power mode for the rest of the season. We only learnt this years later.

It would have to be something that crazy, to be "bomb shell".
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Perhaps, but I dont see that happening yet. Seems like he still seems to just enjoy working with the team too much.

I was thinking that perhaps someone like Brundle is retiring. That would be quite a shock as well. At least to me it would be because I feel like a partly grew up with the guy watching the sport since I was a kid and hearing his voice. Kind of feels to me like he never quite liked the PR circus F1 has turned into. Could be so many things though. Fabrega is being a bit of an attention ho.
 
I reckon it's Daddy Stroll selling AM especially if Lance is more interested in tennis

However I wouldn't call that bombshell. If Lewis wasn't so hungry for number 8 I'd say he's going

How about a big name non driver retiring or moving to another team? Christian Horner or Adrian Newey maybe? Hasn't AN been in the sport a long time? He's just been heavily involved with the ultimate car and is probably heavily ahead with the development of next year's... Would be some season to retire off the back of

Only driver possibility is Lando to RB or Ferrari (isn't Sainz interested in another series?) I hope he stays at McLaren though

Or it's absolutely nothing like most of the transfer rumours we see about United how reliable are these people?
 
United Hobbit said:
I reckon it's Daddy Stroll selling AM especially if Lance is more interested in tennis

However I wouldn't call that bombshell. If Lewis wasn't so hungry for number 8 I'd say he's going

How about a big name non driver retiring or moving to another team? Christian Horner or Adrian Newey maybe? Hasn't AN been in the sport a long time? He's just been heavily involved with the ultimate car and is probably heavily ahead with the development of next year's... Would be some season to retire off the back of

Only driver possibility is Lando to RB or Ferrari (isn't Sainz interested in another series?) I hope he stays at McLaren though

Or it's absolutely nothing like most of the transfer rumours we see about United how reliable are these people?
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Love the last sentence! :lol:
 
There's a speculation thread on Reddit, someone's posted a horrible possibility that I hope isn't true but could explain why he doesn't want it to be true.
 
hobbers said:
You cant say that and not say what the horrible possibility is.
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About MS, however it would be really distasteful to do this if it is the case and the fact his son was there for the whole weekend hopefully means that isn't the case

 
dinostar77 said:
Apparently theres some "bombshell news" comimg out soon. Senior F1 people are in the know as are some journalists, who are keeping it to themselves for now.

The top three rumours for this news:

1. Fernando Alonso is retiring at end of season
2. Lawrence Stroll is selling AM F1 team

the best one of the lot (this would make alot of F1 fans happy) and send F1 viewing figures through the roof...

3. Fernando Alonso is joining Red Bull next season to replace Sergio Perez.
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Considering Alonso's luck. He was driving one of the worst Ferraris in the last 30 years. When he left for McLaren, he had one of the worst engines ever made. And now, when he joined Aston Martin, we see probably the worst in season development ever - from the frontrunner to back marker. I suspect, if Alonso joins RedBull next year, they will make a worst car in teams history.
 
Mike Elliot, Mercedes CTO has left Mercedes F1 team.

Not a suprise, since he's the idiot who was responsible for the slim sidepods and ignoring suggestions for improving the car from Hamilton and Russell.
 
Well Audi pulling the plug was probably the bombshell news out of Germany, the race had a bit on it today, it would,are Audi look incredible stupid as they are doing the hard part the most expensive part and are thinking of pulling out, in the end the race crew thought it more sauber trying to get money to advance the team.
 
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New rumour:



BREAKING NEWS: According to Japanese media, TOYOTA GAZOO Racing is set to take over Audi Sport's shares in Sauber F1!

Toyota GR has been driving very successfully in the FIA WEC and the WRC - FIA World Rally Championship for years. Under the leadership of ex-Formula 1 driver Kamui Kobayashi as team boss, there will now be a racing team in the premier class again.

The takeover will take place together with McLaren, which will purchase its engines from Toyota from 2026.

In addition to Kobayashi as team boss, Ryo Hirakawa is also scheduled as a driver. The 29-year-old Japanese, who is already WEC world champion, Le Mans winner, Super GT champion and two-time SUPER FORMULA runner-up, was accepted into the McLaren Driver Development Program a few weeks ago.

14 days ago Hirakawa tested a 2021 MCL35M in Barcelona.

Toyota competed in Formula 1 with its own works team from 2002 to 2009. Despite having the highest budget of all racing teams, they were unable to win a Grand Prix.

The best result was P4 for the constructors in the 2005 season when Jarno Trulli and Ralf Schumacher took P2 twice and P3 three times, as well as a pole.
 
Ahmer Baig said:
New rumour:



BREAKING NEWS: According to Japanese media, TOYOTA GAZOO Racing is set to take over Audi Sport's shares in Sauber F1!

Toyota GR has been driving very successfully in the FIA WEC and the WRC - FIA World Rally Championship for years. Under the leadership of ex-Formula 1 driver Kamui Kobayashi as team boss, there will now be a racing team in the premier class again.

The takeover will take place together with McLaren, which will purchase its engines from Toyota from 2026.

In addition to Kobayashi as team boss, Ryo Hirakawa is also scheduled as a driver. The 29-year-old Japanese, who is already WEC world champion, Le Mans winner, Super GT champion and two-time SUPER FORMULA runner-up, was accepted into the McLaren Driver Development Program a few weeks ago.

14 days ago Hirakawa tested a 2021 MCL35M in Barcelona.

Toyota competed in Formula 1 with its own works team from 2002 to 2009. Despite having the highest budget of all racing teams, they were unable to win a Grand Prix.

The best result was P4 for the constructors in the 2005 season when Jarno Trulli and Ralf Schumacher took P2 twice and P3 three times, as well as a pole.
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I thought Mclaren and Honda had already signes contract for 2026?

Suprised Porsche dont take Sauber from Audi. Crazy that they change CEO and F1 is no longer appealing to them.

Toyota should be in F1.
 
I joked about this when it happened: see how long it takes before they blame this on Max too.

Took a bit longer than I thought but here it is:
Mercedes development driver Esteban Gutierrez, who is also a Mexican, stated that Max Verstappen was also to partly blame for Sergio Perez's crash in Mexico that caused him to retire from the race.
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Bad luck and Verstappen's aggression were also to blame for Perez's crash in Mexico as per Gutierrez.

Absolutely shameless.
 
Redplane said:
I joked about this when it happened: see how long it takes before they blame this on Max too.

Took a bit longer than I thought but here it is:
Mercedes development driver Esteban Gutierrez, who is also a Mexican, stated that Max Verstappen was also to partly blame for Sergio Perez's crash in Mexico that caused him to retire from the race.
...
Bad luck and Verstappen's aggression were also to blame for Perez's crash in Mexico as per Gutierrez.

Absolutely shameless.
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If Max wasn't so damn fast Sergio wouldn't feel pressured into silly moves around the outside. It makes sense ;).
 
Redplane said:
I joked about this when it happened: see how long it takes before they blame this on Max too.

Took a bit longer than I thought but here it is:
Mercedes development driver Esteban Gutierrez, who is also a Mexican, stated that Max Verstappen was also to partly blame for Sergio Perez's crash in Mexico that caused him to retire from the race.
...
Bad luck and Verstappen's aggression were also to blame for Perez's crash in Mexico as per Gutierrez.

Absolutely shameless.
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Fecking hell, dont think this lot can get more salty.
 
dinostar77 said:
I thought Mclaren and Honda had already signes contract for 2026?

Suprised Porsche dont take Sauber from Audi. Crazy that they change CEO and F1 is no longer appealing to them.

Toyota should be in F1.
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On the Porsche part, it's VW politics, it wouldn't go down well with the Audi side if Porsche got to take the engine and rebadge it as a Porsche and Porsche don't have the facility for a works F1 team.
 
Redplane said:
I joked about this when it happened: see how long it takes before they blame this on Max too.

Took a bit longer than I thought but here it is:
Mercedes development driver Esteban Gutierrez, who is also a Mexican, stated that Max Verstappen was also to partly blame for Sergio Perez's crash in Mexico that caused him to retire from the race.
...
Bad luck and Verstappen's aggression were also to blame for Perez's crash in Mexico as per Gutierrez.

Absolutely shameless.
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That's a big disingenuous, the actual quote:

"It's a pity for Perez and a pity for Mexico.

"I think he was really brave for trying that move. I mean, in that kind of situation, as a driver, when you get such a good start, you go all in sometimes. And that's when you sometimes find yourself in that kind of situation."

"There was a bit of bad luck. An unlucky position there as well because Max moved a bit to the left and then squeezed Charles, and then, of course, Charles had nowhere to go.

"So, if you think about it, yes, it was probably a bit too aggressive. But yeah, it's just a shame. But I'm sure he'll recover quickly."
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Redplane said:
Sort of. But its still trying to shift blame where there was none.
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It literally isn't doing anything of the sort, he's simply saying that Perez was unlucky, too aggressive but he'll get over it. Nothing to do with shifting blame to any other driver.
 
hobbers said:
Needless to say this wont solve the problem.

15 cars leaving the pit lane at the same time. All want to create a gap. Only so much room at the end of the pit lane on the side.
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They’ll all just go slow somewhere else on the track I.e just after exiting the pit lane
 
rpitroda said:
They’ll all just go slow somewhere else on the track I.e just after exiting the pit lane
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Aren't those lap times now limited so any particularly egregious slowdown would put them outside that lap time and in line for reprimand? Or was that just a Monza thing?

edit: Yes, literally the first few lines of the article if I bothered to read it.
 
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