Monza, slapping a reverse on a reverse.
F1 2022 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
Could listen to your all day, so eloquently put too. I wish I could put your argue/debate across so well but can’t
Great post.Well hang on, now you’ve changed the discussion. Saying there is a an asterisks doesn’t mean you hate Max and Horner. It’s just the reality after what happened. You can say both. As for cheaters, well they went over the budget. I’m struggling to understand how staying those things means a) someone must be biased, b) mean that someone wouldn’t think the same thing if it were any other team and c) must just be whining.
Sigh. I should have known better than to get involved
I had been doing so well in this thread to not do so
It’s sad that this thread descends into this, regardless of who you support.
They also opposed Mercedes’ protest, on cock and bull grounds that they must have known lacked any credibility. The fact that the stewards remarkably upheld Masi’s decision (an issue which should have attracted far more criticism than was the case) doesn’t detract from the fact RB could have also dealt with it more honourably. Whilst I don’t doubt most other teams would have acted similarly, it would have been in RB’s power to acknowledge Masi’s failings and let the chips fall accordingly.
Sigh. I should have known better than to get involved
I had been doing so well in this thread to not do so
It’s sad that this thread descends into this, regardless of who you support.
I think the thread's been pretty good all year. Granted it still veers into group therapy for Mercedes fans but not nearly so much of a circus, at least until the last page.
This is impressive consistency albeit there was less degradation than expected.
People may not like Max but he's been super consistent the past few years including before Red Bull were competitive. There's a reason Toto wanted him.
I saw a Lewis Hamilton interview speaking about how he knew he was in Vettel's head when Vettel banged tyres during the safety car. Max has shown a lot of mental strength. This is something we still need to see from Leclerc who is as talented.
That's nonsense. The UK's F1 media have always been very favourable to Red Bull, in no small part due to the parties and junkets they are so well known for providing. I know a bunch of them personally, including some who worked for the now defunct Red Bull F1 magazine, and it's definitely not the case they're biased against Red Bull. It's Horner and virtually Horner alone who has turned the media against them. He's up there with Briatore as one of the bosses who the sport would be better off without.
I don't think Max is a particularly dislikable driver. He's a normal, arrogant (par for the course in F1) young man who needed a proper boss to reign in some of his more reckless traits as many of the drivers do, but instead Horner has encouraged him and made him into a bit of a monster.
Yes of course Max is an outstanding F1 driver. Highly talented and highly motivated. Not yet a great. But getting there.
He is not my cup of tea as a person. But that is just my opinion.
It is with Red Bull that I have a dislike of. Especially Horner.
As an Englishman I ought to be really proud of him and RB. He is a very successful Team Principal.
But I am far from proud of his attitude in general and his holier than thou mannerisms.
I didn't say asterisks means you hate Max and Horner, I haven't said or responded to anything having to do with the budget breach other than pointing out how weird it is to call Max a villain over it and I definitely haven't said that a) someone is biased for saying RB are cheaters for going over budget, b) someone wouldn't think the same if it were another team or c) that it's just whining.
I did call people biased for disliking the people who benefit from dodgy calls by the ref and I did say that people in general whine about last seasons ending though, so you've either read my last few posts and then thrown them all in a blender that makes you think I've said things I haven't or I've been truly terrible at getting my point across.
I'd wager it's a bit of both.
Who has explicitly said they hate Max and Horner because they benefited from a dodgy call? Ergo how can you state they are biased without knowing if that’s the only reason they dislike them? And fine, people whine about last seasons ending. So what, we should just ignore it happened? Ok sure people don’t need to go on and on about and fair enough if it bothers you but then surely you either ignore it oe accept that that’s what people are talking about. Whining about other people whining doesn’t make sense but you’re just as entitled to do it as much as the original whiners are.
Could listen to your all day, so eloquently put too. I wish I could put your argue/debate across so well but can’t
Well thank you. That is very flattering and kind. I greatly appreciate it.
Have to say there have been some really well written and argued posts on here last day or two. Everyone on here is passionate about the sport which sometimes does boil over but nevertheless its interesting.
On a different note. Now we have so many races per season, i think if we get to a situation where the constructors and drivers title has been settled with spare races to go. Then the FIA should experiement in the last few races.
Try out some different ideas ala reverse grid, ballast, mandatory 2 stops, but with tyres that dont degrade so drivers can go flatout from the green light (pirelli said they can do this). Allow young reserve drivers a race, i.e. example drop perez for a race and let RB reserve driver in the car with max. Gets the young drivers some crucial race experience etc. What better opportunity?
Plus makes it more interesting for the fans. Next season is the longest ever, if ferrari and mercedes feck up again (for their various reasons). Max will sleep-drive to the title and there will still be a half dozen races left to go. Seems a no brainer to me.
On a different note. Now we have so many races per season, i think if we get to a situation where the constructors and drivers title has been settled with spare races to go. Then the FIA should experiement in the last few races.
Try out some different ideas ala reverse grid, ballast, mandatory 2 stops, but with tyres that dont degrade so drivers can go flatout from the green light (pirelli said they can do this). Allow young reserve drivers a race, i.e. example drop perez for a race and let RB reserve driver in the car with max. Gets the young drivers some crucial race experience etc. What better opportunity?
Plus makes it more interesting for the fans. Next season is the longest ever, if ferrari and mercedes feck up again (for their various reasons). Max will sleep-drive to the title and there will still be a half dozen races left to go. Seems a no brainer to me.
Your argument is a good one! I certainly don't have a robust defense and I suppose I might be splitting the narrowest of hairs here, but I think I'd draw a distinction between expressing opinions live regarding the action actually happening and bringing things up more or less out of the blue?
I guess as well if I had to nail it down I think the statute of limitations has more or less expired regarding AD (irrespective of what's going on in this thread
), and I just find it a bit off-putting that it's brought up at this point in the subsequent season. If it's within the first few races of this year then sure, fair game - but at this point in the year there have been plenty of safety cars and expressing a controversial (if obvious) opinion seemed a bit out of order to me.I certainly would want commentators to talk about the mistakes or foibles of whatever governing body is responsible for whatever sport they are commentating on, but I just think context is important. Again, if Ted had been asked about that race specifically then he would be well within his rights to express his opinion, but I don't think the prompt to him was presented with that context.
1st question - I haven't accused anyone of explicitly saying that so it's a bit of a strange question, but @simonhch post was the reason for my first comment about this although it was more to say that it doesn't make sense to hate on Max and Horner for the whole Masi debacle (and Max for the budget thing) since they didn't break any rules. It was pretty clear he hated them for it, though he expressed himself a bit more eloquently, and since half the regulars in here has made that 'Post of the year' it's pretty clear he's not alone in thinking that.
2nd question - I don't quite follow tbh, why would I need to know if that's the only reason they dislike them to state they are biased? I already knew they were biased long before the Masi debacle just like I know the majority of F1 fans are biased, myself included.
3rd question - No, I never said we should ignore it. I've also not said that it bothers me or that I don't accept that people are talking about it. If I did I would've said so instead of replying to posts about it.
I hope that clears things up but if you want to continue with this I'd really appreciate if you addressed what I've actually said instead of strawmanning the crap out of it.
Firstly the condescending tone of your post doesn’t add weight to your argument so there’s no need for it.
As for your points, to be frank there’s little left to discuss. Talking about why it’s odd to hate Max and Horner for the Abu Dhabi point is, well, pointless, because the rest of your post indicates you have already long concluded that the very individuals you’re arguing with are biased and therefore what did you expect? And it’s pretty obvious why it matters if this is why they do or don’t solely hate them. You can’t conclude that someone’s opinion is flawed based on your point about this not being about them if you can’t first conclude that their opinion in the first place is based upon this matter. Otherwise you’re criticising someone for something they haven’t said or believe.
In following your tone, should any of the simple points above not adequately conclude the discussion I am happy to discuss the fundamental point; should you wish to continue your responses where you say you didn’t say something because you didn’t use the exact words then I would rather you save your time.
I think it's safe to say that you went a bit beyond not using my exact words but I apologize for my tone nevertheless.
Anyhow, I can be fully aware that people dislike Max and Horner for the Abu Dhabi thing because they are biased and still think it's a shit reason to dislike them, especially so when they also have the balls to claim there's no inherent bias involved. What I'd like to expect is for a mistake made by a 3rd party to be pretty far down the list as to why someone (extremely biased or not) dislikes them so much instead of perhaps being the 2nd thing they bring up.
As for the rest, just go back and read my posts on the previous page, it's pretty clear where everyone involved stands on this and to my knowledge I haven't criticized anyone for something they haven't said or don't believe. I get that it might be confusing though because my initial posts were about very specific talking points made by one poster and when you came in we started speaking mostly in broad general terms, so no wonder it's a complete mess when trying to figure out what was said about whose opinion.
We’ll let’s bring it back down to earth then, max still a kunt
Brazil this weekend.
Stupid sprint race weekend also, qualifying 19:00 Friday night.
Thunderstorms are forecast for Friday Sat and Sunday it is ging to be chaos.
Stupid sprint race weekend also, qualifying 19:00 Friday night.
Thunderstorms are forecast for Friday Sat and Sunday it is ging to be chaos.
Chaos AKA 2 hours waiting in the pits for a rain shower to end.
Because the safest F1 cars of all time, that survive 150mph explosions through barriers, aren’t safe enough when there’s poor visibility due to spray.
oh I forgot this is your home race. Are you going?
I still remember that dramaIt's really frustrating that instead of the unpredictable wet races that we used to get, have now been turned into situations where they just sit around waiting for everything to dry.
Hamilton receives honorary citizenship Brazil
"..Hamilton was officially declared an honorary citizen of Brazil at the Chamber of Deputies. Arthur Lira, president of the Chamber of Deputies, made a reference in his speech to the finale of the 2021 Formula One season. Lira stated that Hamilton was "robbed" and addressed him as an "eight-time world champion", much to the delight of the Mercedes driver and those present in the room..."
Crofty (at event for FIA not sky) did something similar during the Las Vegas track event. When questioning hamilton the seven times world champion about how awesome it would be to win a title at las vegas gp, people in the crowd started shouting "eight times world champion".
Crofty said, well the crowd are saying your a eight times world champion, so how would it feel as a eight times worls champion to win a title at Las Vegas (words to that effect).
Crofty will probably get a slap on the wrists for that as it was an official FIA event.
"..Hamilton was officially declared an honorary citizen of Brazil at the Chamber of Deputies. Arthur Lira, president of the Chamber of Deputies, made a reference in his speech to the finale of the 2021 Formula One season. Lira stated that Hamilton was "robbed" and addressed him as an "eight-time world champion", much to the delight of the Mercedes driver and those present in the room..."
Crofty (at event for FIA not sky) did something similar during the Las Vegas track event. When questioning hamilton the seven times world champion about how awesome it would be to win a title at las vegas gp, people in the crowd started shouting "eight times world champion".
Crofty said, well the crowd are saying your a eight times world champion, so how would it feel as a eight times worls champion to win a title at Las Vegas (words to that effect).
Crofty will probably get a slap on the wrists for that as it was an official FIA event.
I bet Red bull are steaming right nowHamilton receives honorary citizenship Brazil
"..Hamilton was officially declared an honorary citizen of Brazil at the Chamber of Deputies. Arthur Lira, president of the Chamber of Deputies, made a reference in his speech to the finale of the 2021 Formula One season. Lira stated that Hamilton was "robbed" and addressed him as an "eight-time world champion", much to the delight of the Mercedes driver and those present in the room..."
Crofty (at event for FIA not sky) did something similar during the Las Vegas track event. When questioning hamilton the seven times world champion about how awesome it would be to win a title at las vegas gp, people in the crowd started shouting "eight times world champion".
Crofty said, well the crowd are saying your a eight times world champion, so how would it feel as a eight times worls champion to win a title at Las Vegas (words to that effect).
Crofty will probably get a slap on the wrists for that as it was an official FIA event.
I bet Red bull are steaming right now
RB keep telling us that a fork is a spoon. Why will no one will listen
But it's only the biased UK media and conspiracy theories, I thought?Hamilton receives honorary citizenship Brazil
"..Hamilton was officially declared an honorary citizen of Brazil at the Chamber of Deputies. Arthur Lira, president of the Chamber of Deputies, made a reference in his speech to the finale of the 2021 Formula One season. Lira stated that Hamilton was "robbed" and addressed him as an "eight-time world champion", much to the delight of the Mercedes driver and those present in the room..."
Crofty (at event for FIA not sky) did something similar during the Las Vegas track event. When questioning hamilton the seven times world champion about how awesome it would be to win a title at las vegas gp, people in the crowd started shouting "eight times world champion".
Crofty said, well the crowd are saying your a eight times world champion, so how would it feel as a eight times worls champion to win a title at Las Vegas (words to that effect).
Crofty will probably get a slap on the wrists for that as it was an official FIA event.
I'm perfectly capable of those things without being part of the UK media
Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen's threats to step away from social media may have forced the FIA into action after president Mohammed Ben Sulayem revealed discussions have been held with tech bosses to tackle abuse on platforms. The F1 stars have both spoken out publicly about the torrent of abuse sent their way on a daily basis, which could force them to remove their accounts from websites if they fail to tackle the abuse.
Hamilton, who was mercilessly booed at the Mexican Grand Prix, recently said "we should all come off social media" after receiving racial abuse over the years: "Social media is getting more and more toxic as the years go on and I think we should all come off it ultimately," he said.
"Mental health is such a prominent thing right now. So many people are reading the comments and the stuff people say, and it is hurtful.
"Fortunately, I don't read the stuff but the media platforms need to do more to protect people, particularly young kids and women, but at the moment they are not doing that so I think this will just continue."
His 2021 championship rival Verstappen agreed that websites like Twitter and Instagram are "very toxic", adding: "Social media is a very toxic place and if you are constantly being like that live on TV then you are making it worse instead of trying to make it better," he said.
Former race director Michael Masi was hounded out of the sport after his last-lap decision effectively handed Verstappen a clear run to pass Hamilton the final lap of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix last season, leading to the Dutchman winning the title in controversial circumstances. The Australian said he had received death threats to himself and his family, in addition to abuse on social media.
And only last week, Fernando Alonso leapt to the defence of FIA race steward Silvia Bellot after she received death threats from race fans for her part in penalising the Alpine driver at the United States Grand Prix.
Ben Sulayem, who said the FIA are in discussions with social media bosses to find a solution to the growing issue, hit out at the treatment they received and fears that people will be put off working in such roles if the abuse continues.
"It is utterly deplorable that a volunteer such as Silvia or any of our marshals and officials, who volunteer their time to allow us to go racing, is the subject of such hatred," Ben Sulayem wrote in a column for Motorsport.com.
"Indeed a number of FIA staff have also been targeted with harassment and hate posts over the past few years.
"It is totally unacceptable that our volunteers, officials and employees are subjected to this extreme abuse. It has no place in our sport. It has a devastating effect on our mental health and that of our loved ones.
"I will always stand up for my staff and volunteers. And let me be clear - without these people there would be no racing. We have to ask ourselves, who would want to pursue becoming a top official in this environment?
"The reality is obvious - if this continues it will destroy our sport."
Hamilton, who was mercilessly booed at the Mexican Grand Prix, recently said "we should all come off social media" after receiving racial abuse over the years: "Social media is getting more and more toxic as the years go on and I think we should all come off it ultimately," he said.
"Mental health is such a prominent thing right now. So many people are reading the comments and the stuff people say, and it is hurtful.
"Fortunately, I don't read the stuff but the media platforms need to do more to protect people, particularly young kids and women, but at the moment they are not doing that so I think this will just continue."
His 2021 championship rival Verstappen agreed that websites like Twitter and Instagram are "very toxic", adding: "Social media is a very toxic place and if you are constantly being like that live on TV then you are making it worse instead of trying to make it better," he said.
Former race director Michael Masi was hounded out of the sport after his last-lap decision effectively handed Verstappen a clear run to pass Hamilton the final lap of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix last season, leading to the Dutchman winning the title in controversial circumstances. The Australian said he had received death threats to himself and his family, in addition to abuse on social media.
And only last week, Fernando Alonso leapt to the defence of FIA race steward Silvia Bellot after she received death threats from race fans for her part in penalising the Alpine driver at the United States Grand Prix.
Ben Sulayem, who said the FIA are in discussions with social media bosses to find a solution to the growing issue, hit out at the treatment they received and fears that people will be put off working in such roles if the abuse continues.
"It is utterly deplorable that a volunteer such as Silvia or any of our marshals and officials, who volunteer their time to allow us to go racing, is the subject of such hatred," Ben Sulayem wrote in a column for Motorsport.com.
"Indeed a number of FIA staff have also been targeted with harassment and hate posts over the past few years.
"It is totally unacceptable that our volunteers, officials and employees are subjected to this extreme abuse. It has no place in our sport. It has a devastating effect on our mental health and that of our loved ones.
"I will always stand up for my staff and volunteers. And let me be clear - without these people there would be no racing. We have to ask ourselves, who would want to pursue becoming a top official in this environment?
"The reality is obvious - if this continues it will destroy our sport."
Boycotting - I'm not sure it does anything other than raise awareness for a few days.
They could hold a joint interview and set of posts about it. Unlikely and a bit cheesy but it would say a lot if they and their teams could show a bit more respect or professionalism to each other off track.
Wonder if Merc will run with the FTX sponsorship on their car this weekend...
Lewis had a rocket engine last year in Brazil - did we ever work out why? The RBs have been way ahead on the straight so likely another Max win?
Lewis had a rocket engine last year in Brazil - did we ever work out why? The RBs have been way ahead on the straight so likely another Max win?
Brazil GP FP1 time sheet
They essentially cranked the power up to 150% knowing they only had to use it in 2/3 races. They were happy to take the engine penalty of 5 places knowing with so much extra speed they'd make it up in 10 laps or so.
Usually engines have to last a certain amount of races across the season, but they went hail mary with it (and it worked fantastically)
Carlos Sainz will take a five-place grid drop for the 2022 Sao Paulo Grand Prix, after taking on his sixth new internal combustion engine of the year.
Sainz – who endured a lacklustre Mexico City Grand Prix last time out, as he finished a distant P5 – has also taken an eighth exhaust system, alongside the additional ICE.
With the Sao Paulo event being the third and final Sprint weekend of the season, Sainz’s five-place grid drop will come into effect for Sunday’s Sao Paulo Grand Prix, rather then the 100km Sprint dash on Saturday afternoon.
Sainz – who endured a lacklustre Mexico City Grand Prix last time out, as he finished a distant P5 – has also taken an eighth exhaust system, alongside the additional ICE.
With the Sao Paulo event being the third and final Sprint weekend of the season, Sainz’s five-place grid drop will come into effect for Sunday’s Sao Paulo Grand Prix, rather then the 100km Sprint dash on Saturday afternoon.
Bet they don't go out in this, the track didn't look that bad?
Is it me or have they got completely risk averse? I could understand absolute monsoon conditions but half the time it's conditions they used to race in
It denies the fans the excitement of wet racing and getting to see the drivers' skill in handling tricky conditions
Is it me or have they got completely risk averse? I could understand absolute monsoon conditions but half the time it's conditions they used to race in
It denies the fans the excitement of wet racing and getting to see the drivers' skill in handling tricky conditions
Riccardo was speaking about this on a podcast, he was saying the spray from the ground effect cars is completely different from the older car, even in the monsoon conditions the track was some what drivable but you couldn’t see the car directly in front of you.
Really 150%. I thought that the ICE had to be limited to a certain rev limit of 15000. How then I wonder could they get that much extra power??
looks like it has been raining but is already drying out 60% chance f more rain.
That Senna bust is pretty impressive.
That Senna bust is pretty impressive.