F1 2022 Season

r/formula1 was great 10 or so years ago, was basically an extension of the planetf1 forums.
 
I didnt even know there was a formula1 reddit, thought it was just formuladank
 
Red Bull's punishment for breaking Formula 1's budget cap will be revealed on Friday.

Red Bull have called a news conference at 17:30 BST at the Mexican Grand Prix to discuss their penalty.

It is understood that the team have come to an "accepted breach agreement" with F1's governing body the FIA.

"We feel we are not wrong and things are taken into the budget cap that are very unexpected, but we have to deal with it," driver Max Verstappen said.

The penalty has not been revealed but speculation within F1 suggests that it could be a multi-million dollar fine and a reduction in permitted aerodynamic research and development.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63421741
 


Very smooth by the FIA.

Spare a thought for Magnussen. Thought he was 8th, but was then overtaken by Vettel on the last lap to become 9th, then bumbed up to 8th by Alonso's penalty, and now bumped back to 9th. What a ride.
 
What ever fine / penalty Red Bull get will not be acceptable to some.
Huge fine and a reduction in wind tunnel time seems to be the punishment being banded around, is it enough ?
Some are calling for Max and Red Bull to be stripped of last seasons WC, that was never going to happen, again should it ?
I dont think is would be right.
The over spend is reported to be 1.8m, is that enough to change the out come of last season, would them not spending that 1.8m made Max slower or less comparative ?
If Red Bull can prove that the over spend was not spent on the car or development and was spent on catering and gardening leave, then yeah maybe the fine and penalty is about right.
Iam bored of it all, this has dragged on for too long, FIA need to sort out how they deal with stuff like this.
Some of the comments by other team principles and been pretty bad, one call Red Bull cheats, Toto did himself no favors , nor did Binotto.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
What ever fine / penalty Red Bull get will not be acceptable to some.
Huge fine and a reduction in wind tunnel time seems to be the punishment being banded around, is it enough ?
Some are calling for Max and Red Bull to be stripped of last seasons WC, that was never going to happen, again should it ?
I dont think is would be right.
The over spend is reported to be 1.8m, is that enough to change the out come of last season, would them not spending that 1.8m made Max slower or less comparative ?
If Red Bull can prove that the over spend was not spent on the car or development and was spent on catering and gardening leave, then yeah maybe the fine and penalty is about right.
Iam bored of it all, this has dragged on for too long, FIA need to sort out how they deal with stuff like this.
Some of the comments by other team principles and been pretty bad, one call Red Bull cheats, Toto did himself no favors , nor did Binotto.
Click to expand...

Well if they broke the rules they cheated, it's not like they're a bunch of upstanding citizens in the senior management there is it? They probably thought they'd found a loophole and tried to exploit it. They should be punished properly if so. Reducing their budget cap would make the most sense to me.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
What ever fine / penalty Red Bull get will not be acceptable to some.
Huge fine and a reduction in wind tunnel time seems to be the punishment being banded around, is it enough ?
Some are calling for Max and Red Bull to be stripped of last seasons WC, that was never going to happen, again should it ?
I dont think is would be right.
The over spend is reported to be 1.8m, is that enough to change the out come of last season, would them not spending that 1.8m made Max slower or less comparative ?
If Red Bull can prove that the over spend was not spent on the car or development and was spent on catering and gardening leave, then yeah maybe the fine and penalty is about right.
Iam bored of it all, this has dragged on for too long, FIA need to sort out how they deal with stuff like this.
Some of the comments by other team principles and been pretty bad, one call Red Bull cheats, Toto did himself no favors , nor did Binotto.
Click to expand...
I dont think we've heard the last of this despite the FIA ruling. Haas & Alfa Romeo bosses have also voiced their opinion that the penalty should be sporting not financial.

I dont think a 25% reduction in wind tunnel time for the next season is a sufficient deterant to the likes of ferrari and mercedes. Better to overspend, win a constructors or drivers title knowing it wont be taken away. The following season be damned. Ferrari for one havent won a WDC in 15 years. Worth the overspend to get that monkey off their back.

I have no doubts a number of teams will now break the costcap or get creative with financing and put the overspend on "catering". Personally i dont think likes ferrari and mercedes should d this. Just because Redbull cheated, they shouldnt lower themselves or their brands reputation to that position.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
What ever fine / penalty Red Bull get will not be acceptable to some.
Huge fine and a reduction in wind tunnel time seems to be the punishment being banded around, is it enough ?
Some are calling for Max and Red Bull to be stripped of last seasons WC, that was never going to happen, again should it ?
I dont think is would be right.
The over spend is reported to be 1.8m, is that enough to change the out come of last season, would them not spending that 1.8m made Max slower or less comparative ?
If Red Bull can prove that the over spend was not spent on the car or development and was spent on catering and gardening leave, then yeah maybe the fine and penalty is about right.
Iam bored of it all, this has dragged on for too long, FIA need to sort out how they deal with stuff like this.
Some of the comments by other team principles and been pretty bad, one call Red Bull cheats, Toto did himself no favors , nor did Binotto.
Click to expand...
There’s no real way of proving that though, the way I see it is that everyone was in the same position and made cut backs whereas RBR carried on spending. It shouldn’t really matter if that over spend was on catering or development, the only thing that matters is going over the allowance.
 
dinostar77 said:
I dont think we've heard the last of this despite the FIA ruling. Haas & Alfa Romeo bosses have also voiced their opinion that the penalty should be sporting not financial.

I dont think a 25% reduction in wind tunnel time for the next season is a sufficient deterant to the likes of ferrari and mercedes. Better to overspend, win a constructors or drivers title knowing it wont be taken away. The following season be damned. Ferrari for one havent won a WDC in 15 years. Worth the overspend to get that monkey off their back.

I have no doubts a number of teams will now break the costcap or get creative with financing and put the overspend on "catering". Personally i dont think likes ferrari and mercedes should d this. Just because Redbull cheated, they shouldnt lower themselves or their brands reputation to that position.
Click to expand...

The big risk is this line of thinking pushes one of the big manufacturers to leave the sport. If LMH/Dh rules prove to be a success you could see a return to the doldrums of the late 90s in F1 where they are all, except for Ferrari, more focused on sportscars.
 
I dont see how they can prove the overspend was not spent on the car, we will never know, maybe the FIA will , who knows.
And yes overspending on a budget, for what ever reason, yeah can be classed as cheating.
I can see why some say 25% reduction in the wind tunnel is not a big enough deterrent a budget reduction would.
My fear and of other I can read is other teams will think well if we over spend by 5% which is what 7.5m, with only be a slap on the wrists, it will be worth it.
Was Max aweare of the overspend, would he have had a clue, no I don't think so, but did he benefit, that question my never be answered.
OK I will ask you, what punishment would be appropriate ?
My thoughts.
Max keeps his WC , Red Bull stripped of the constructors title, reduction in budget next season and loss of tunnel time , too harsh ?
 
11101 said:
The big risk is this line of thinking pushes one of the big manufacturers to leave the sport. If LMH/Dh rules prove to be a success you could see a return to the doldrums of the late 90s in F1 where they are all, except for Ferrari, more focused on sportscars.
Click to expand...
I can see the big manufacturers eventually spltting off from fia and starting their own series. Much like in football where the giant clubs are getting frustrated with UEFA. Eventually they may decide to govern themselves.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I dont see how they can prove the overspend was not spent on the car, we will never know, maybe the FIA will , who knows.
And yes overspending on a budget, for what ever reason, yeah can be classed as cheating.
I can see why some say 25% reduction in the wind tunnel is not a big enough deterrent a budget reduction would.
My fear and of other I can read is other teams will think well if we over spend by 5% which is what 7.5m, with only be a slap on the wrists, it will be worth it.
Was Max aweare of the overspend, would he have had a clue, no I don't think so, but did he benefit, that question my never be answered.
OK I will ask you, what punishment would be appropriate ?
My thoughts.
Max keeps his WC , Red Bull stripped of the constructors title, reduction in budget next season and loss of tunnel time , too harsh ?
Click to expand...
2021 season for various reasons we all know its the nexus for the most controversal point in f1 history and will remain so. Therefore it becomes an outlier of a season for punishments.

So lets take 2022 season instead and imagine the same issue i.e. RB overspend of same amount. For me personally, i think i would strip RB of their constructors title, ban them from bring any updates to the 2023 for 12 races (50% of the season) and reduce wind tunnel time by 50%. No financial penalities. Max keeps his title and points and sergio his points.

It needs to be this harsh, to stop anyone else, Mercedes, Ferrari, AM, Audi etc from even thinking of breaching the budget because the consequences are so severe. Thats not the case at the moment.
 
Mercedes rumoured to be abandoning the skinny sidepods.

Would have been interesting if they could have gotten the sim data to match the track data. It would have been "significantly quicker than the ferrrai and redbull".

Whatever the fatal flaw is in the W13 that cant be fixed in season and mercedes wont reveal (its what caused the car to be so bad this season). If it hadnt of made that mistake, the season could have been very different.

Personally i think its the rear suspension, thats flawed and cant be fixed in season due to the way the floor works.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-clues-mercedes-will-abandon-unique-f1-sidepods-for-2023/
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I dont see how they can prove the overspend was not spent on the car, we will never know, maybe the FIA will , who knows.
And yes overspending on a budget, for what ever reason, yeah can be classed as cheating.
I can see why some say 25% reduction in the wind tunnel is not a big enough deterrent a budget reduction would.
My fear and of other I can read is other teams will think well if we over spend by 5% which is what 7.5m, with only be a slap on the wrists, it will be worth it.
Was Max aweare of the overspend, would he have had a clue, no I don't think so, but did he benefit, that question my never be answered.
OK I will ask you, what punishment would be appropriate ?
My thoughts.
Max keeps his WC , Red Bull stripped of the constructors title, reduction in budget next season and loss of tunnel time , too harsh ?
Click to expand...
Just make the team that overspends pay that amount to every other team and that amount won’t be included into everyone else’s budget.

Nobody is going to risk overspending when they’ll basically be fined 9 times the value they exceed and give everyone more money to spend.
 
Formula One's governing body ordered Red Bull to pay a $7 million fine and forfeit wind tunnel time of only 10% as punishment for overspending the 2021 cost cap by $1.8 million during Max Verstappen's first championship season.
 
Just sounds like they should invest in someone that knows how the budget works. The impact of that punishment is nothing, but glad they can draw a line under it and we don't have to keep reading about it.
 
Need to read the detail but it seems a reasonable conclusion given the below (amount after tax credit and what areas). Hope they can sort this in time for next year (this season). Wind tunnel time will impact them as they are first in constructors so already reduced but at the same time they are so far ahead and have Newey so it probably won't make any difference.



 
10% as expected, so they’ll lose about 20 wind tunnel runs in total
 
I'm in two minds really.

On one hand it's a minor overspend, a decent chunk of which seems to be due to poor accounting, so I get going with some leniency.

However, there isn't any actual punishment here, Red Bull are so far ahead of everyone that a handful fewer wind tunnel visits won't make any difference, and the fine is pointless, it should at least have been taken from their budget for this year.

The precedent set isn't the most encouraging - if you have the money, overspend a bit and you'll get a fine, keep the same budget, and lose a little wind tunnel time for the next year. If you can spend the £2.2 million well, that's a deal worth taking every time.
 
10% is a very low punishment, and the 7m wont come out of their cap, so is redundant.

Sets a poor precedent, because the other top teams will inevitably take this deal, which will exacerbate the gap between the richer and poorer teams (the entire purpose of the cap). A 10% cut in wind tunnel time and 1.9m reduction of their cap next year would be far more fair than a 7m fine.

But of course, that would be less money for the FIA's coffers and would annoy the team they continue to help.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Lets hope we can draw a line under this now and just get on with it, but I doubt it, Sky for one will bring it up for the rest of the season and no doubt into next.
Click to expand...

People still mention how unfair it was that Russia/ Qatar were awarded the World Cup, because FIFA rewarded cheating for years.

A slap on the wrist for an offending team and an apology by a governing body rarely leads to a topic just disappearing and everyone moving on, especially when it culminates in significant benefits for one team. No matter how much that team would like it to.

I imagine we'll continue to hear about it whilst RB are winning and continue to benefit more from rulebreaking/ FIA decisions.
 
dinostar77 said:
Cost cap is dead.
Click to expand...

It's completely bizarre how they are allowed to spend the maximum amount in future years, despite overspending this year. Surely once guilty, the overspend should be deducted from future financial years.

A 10% reduction for every 500k overspend (if the team has made a stupid mistake like unclaimed tax credits) is surely not enough, whether it's Mercedes, RB or Ferrari. It should be this PLUS a reduction in their budget cap for future years, so they aren't allowed to overspend in any three year period.
 
goalscholes said:
It's completely bizarre how they are allowed to spend the maximum amount in future years, despite overspending this year. Surely once guilty, the overspend should be deducted from future financial years.

A 10% reduction for every 500k overspend (if the team has made a stupid mistake like unclaimed tax credits) is surely not enough, whether it's Mercedes, RB or Ferrari. It should be this PLUS a reduction in their budget cap for future years, so they aren't allowed to overspend in any three year period.
Click to expand...
I dont disagree. It will be interesting to see what the other team bosses have to say. I think the paddock will say the penalty isnt sufficient.

Marseille get stripped of european cup
Juventus get relegated
Lance armstrong loses all his titles
Ben johnson loses olympic gold.

RedBull? Laugh their heads off as their cheating goes unpunished in a sporting context.
 
goalscholes said:
It's completely bizarre how they are allowed to spend the maximum amount in future years, despite overspending this year. Surely once guilty, the overspend should be deducted from future financial years.

A 10% reduction for every 500k overspend (if the team has made a stupid mistake like unclaimed tax credits) is surely not enough, whether it's Mercedes, RB or Ferrari. It should be this PLUS a reduction in their budget cap for future years, so they aren't allowed to overspend in any three year period.
Click to expand...
Actually 10% would be the gap between 1st in the constructors and 3rd, so it is a significant reduction I would say. Wolff this year has commented how the reduced WT time has affected them
 
Fun and games. Classic F1.

Everyone against RB saying even £500K is massive in performance whilst RB would say it was little and not relevant to performance.

Now the punishment has come out, teams will claim it isn't worth anything whilst RB will say it's a massive hit to performance.

 
They will be down to 60% next year as they have finished first in the constructors, doubt it will make a massive difference on the track though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.