Why. Is that against F1 rules and budget cap.
They have had to do that because of their underperforming car. That still is underperforming.
F1 2022 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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Why. Is that against F1 rules and budget cap.
They have had to do that because of their underperforming car. That still is underperforming.
Sauber are actually the team that's racing, they're just partnered with Alfa Romeo.
When Alfa leave nothing will change apart from their partnership with Ferrari
I did say that would be the case by those who understand F1....
So what is the team called?
https://www.sauber-group.com/motorsport/formula-1/partners/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_in_Formula_One
When the Alfa Romeo sponsorship ends they'll be replaced with Audi. How is that difficult to understand?
Sauber are THE team
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...-Racing.html&usg=AOvVaw3j-TEc9zXaq5Etdz7eC3kq
Full Team Name Alfa Romeo F1 Team Orlen.
Ok. Let's see if they comply with the budget cap. And if not, you have a point.
are you being dense on purpose or what? thats how title sponsporship works. Alfa and Orlen are the 2 main sponsors. I suppose you're going to tell me Alpine own the team too right? the team could be called disneyland and wearing a mickey mouse head for a helmet, but they'd still be Sauber under the clothing.
It's a sponsorship, Alfa own nothing of the team that is racing. When they leave Sauber are partnering with Audi. Unless they buy out Sauber, it'll still be Sauber.
the team could be called disneyland and wearing a mickey mouse head for a helmet, but they'd still be Sauber under the clothing.
It's a sponsorship, Alfa own nothing of the team that is racing. When they leave Sauber are partnering with Audi. Unless they buy out Sauber, it'll still be Sauber.
There you go. I am always totally unimpressed by people who have to resort to insults to try and make their point. Which you have and failed.
ooof. fired that off like a verstappen lunge for a non-existent gap.
Unfortunately I had to prove my point twice which you chose to ignore. It's ok to admit you failed and you're wrong snowflake xx
I guess that leaves us both unimpressed, but only 1 correct
Thanks.
Alfa are just a title sponsor and technical partner, the team is still Sauber on all but the race entry.
I'm not saying that it's against the rules. It's not. But it's a bit odd that Mercedes are questioning how Red Bull can upgrade their car and stay under the cap while they've done a lot more upgrades themselves isn't it? And the article is from before the USA GP and Mercedes brought a big upgrade package to that GP as well.
Will bookmark this post for next years audit results. Seeing as RB have brought updates to every race and have been lightening the weight of the car for awhile now. Something mercedes and ferrari cant afford to do this season.
Big difference between spending on smaller cheaper parts to fix porposing and then do development on your car than spending £2mil on a lighter chassis for august when you've already sown up the wdc and constructors.
The chassis cost will definetly rear its head in the 2022 audit as both binotto and totto have gone on record querying how redbull can afford it.
The budget cap is in regards to 2021, not this year, no one knows anything about this year's budget cap yet, so calling this year's car illegal makes no sense.
Mercedes going to run its controversal front wing in mexico. May get disqualifed after the race. Probably worth it for the data alone.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-plans-to-race-controversial-new-f1-front-wing-in-mexico/
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-plans-to-race-controversial-new-f1-front-wing-in-mexico/
When do you think 2022 cars are designed & from what years budget?
I would assume it's from the budget of the year the car is going to race in, so 2022? I honestly don't know, that just makes the most sense to me. And from the talk you always hear every year when they talk about car development it sounds like that's how it works. But because of the budget cap thing the last couple of years I actually don't know now.
No, development for this years car would have began probably around June-July 2021, some teams before that. So it would come into budgets from last year, which is why the talk around punishments is so heated amongst some on here.
Oh yeh I know development would have started that far back, it always does, but I haven't seen anything to say that development of this year's car is part of last year's budget, do you have a source for that? It'd be interesting to read.
Gunther Steiner joining in that cheating i.e. going over budget (ala RedBull) must be punished.
"This is like going below the minimum weight, or using too much fuel. We ourselves were excluded from a race because of a technical violation of three millimetres that didn't even benefit us. But for all those things there is a penalty attached. There is no rule that says if you cheat you will be disqualified. So there you need to find the right penalty for that."
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/150873/steiner-appropriate-punishment-must-be-found-for-cheating.html
"This is like going below the minimum weight, or using too much fuel. We ourselves were excluded from a race because of a technical violation of three millimetres that didn't even benefit us. But for all those things there is a penalty attached. There is no rule that says if you cheat you will be disqualified. So there you need to find the right penalty for that."
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/150873/steiner-appropriate-punishment-must-be-found-for-cheating.html
Did they ever introduce that rumoured lighter chassis? Because I don't think they did. There was a rumour about a lighter chassis in August yeah (surprise surprise the two rival teams were talking about it..) but Red Bull denied it existed. Later rumours started by Motorsport Italy saying it does exist but was never introduced because Red Bull didn't really need the extra performance and decided to cut costs that way.
Red Bull denying it exists:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gpfans.com/amp/article.php?id=90359
Motorsport Italy claiming Red Bull did develop/test a new chassis at the factory but never introduced it:
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/1335...e-a-lighter-chassis-ready-at-the-factory.html
So in short, looks like it's a non story really.
Ah ok fair enough, I find it weird that happens to be honest, an awful lot of grey areas if your mixing one year's budget and the next. You'd think they'd just stick with it being a cap for 2021's car only, and the next year's budget for the new car in the rules. But anyway what do I know!
I'm not bothered either ways really, I'm not a fan of either red bull or Mercedes, just can't stand some of mental gymnastics some people employ on here to defend either team, it's nauseating. I think I'll stick with having Ferrari as my favourite team, at least they're just shit most of time
Ah ok fair enough, I find it weird that happens to be honest, an awful lot of grey areas if your mixing one year's budget and the next. You'd think they'd just stick with it being a cap for 2021's car only, and the next year's budget for the new car in the rules. But anyway what do I know!
I'm not bothered either ways really, I'm not a fan of either red bull or Mercedes, just can't stand some of mental gymnastics some people employ on here to defend either team, it's nauseating. I think I'll stick with having Ferrari as my favourite team, at least they're just shit most of time
It would enable teams to frontload spending and claim it was for future cars. An upgrade going into and being tested for next year's car could definitely also benefit this year's.
How can it exist if they didn't spend the money to create it?.
They either made it and chose they didn't need to run it yet, or they've been using it and just pretending they aren't.
My money is on the latter. No coincidence that since those rumours started their performance has increased significantly, especially on tyre wear.
Horner and Red Bull are cut throat and will do anything to win. They knew that they'd be able to push the limits, gain an advantage then blame the world's troubles for cost increases.
Could be they created a prototype for testing, could be it's for the 2023 car, could be Motorsport Italy are full of it and/or are a mouthpiece for Ferrari/Mercedes, lots of possibilities really. All we know is in late August Red Bull said they didn't have one and weren't planning one on the short term. Everything else is speculation. Where are you getting the idea that they're secretly using a new chassis but pretending they're not? How would that even work? These things are strictly monitored by the FIA and upgrades get published.
Well the FIA clearly aren't aware of everything otherwise cheating would never happen on cars. If RB turned up one weekend with a new lighter chassis, from the outside how are the FIA supposed to know without it being declared? It's not like you can see the difference.
Whether thats actually possible/plausible I don't really know, but the improvement has been quite coincidental since that point.
I do wonder though how they managed to create this with the financial restrictions, and how Aston Martin basically made 2 different cars. No surprises they're the 2 teams under suspicion.
I know there has been a bit of back and forth on this but the expectation is after the alfa title sponsorship ends in 2023, the team will go back to the name sauber for two years and the be known as audi from 2026.
So either way the team that will be called sauber will then become audi, but even now they are sauber, with a title sponsor of alfa.
The reason suspension was simplified for the 2022 season and onwards was because the fia couldn't police the suspensions as their designs were so complex. Stuff does get past the FIA i.e. ferrari oil burning when vettel was there.
The new rule that teams must submit all new parts changes to the FIA for a race weekend is a really useful rule. Especially for armchair fans.
Regardless of whether a new chassis actually goes on a car or not it still costs circa £2mil to develop. RB may have developed for next season but done it under the cost cap for this season therefore freeing up some money for next season?
Understood. My clear understanding is that currently, the team is called Alfa Romeo and that is the stated team title on the F1 website.
But thanks for your input.
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New Honda Civic Type-R review, with....sergio perez at the wheel.
There are checks done to two of the cars after every race that goes beyond the standard procedure where they are dismantled and gone over in more detail and suspicion about certain parts will be a factor in deciding which cars are chosen and which areas to look at more closely. I'm also pretty sure that they have an identification system of the parts that goes beyond a simple visual inspection to see if it's a different design than it was before.
Otherwise there would be no point in having rules about a limited amount of engines, turbos, gearboxes etc since they would just as likely be able to hide that as they could hide a new chassis.
As for RB, if they used a new chassis without declaring it to the FIA when they already had the best car on the grid and both titles pretty much sown up already then they would be among the dumbest cheaters in F1 history.
George Russell is doing an AMA and it went predictably James Cordeney
Yeah f1 reddit is a cesspit.
Outlets now reporting Red Bull, Aston Martin and the FIA have agreed to an ABA. Details to be published tomorrow.
So did RB cheat...or not?
it doesn’t matter. the fia are trail blazers. i hope the crown court in the uk introduces a similar system whereby criminals are allowed to barter with the judges and agree on a sentence, all the while the actual crimes are never detailed. this way the general public have no idea a registered nonce only did 12 minutes behind bars because it was less paperwork for the judge and better hid their incompetence.