F1 2022 Season

Not sure where to place Vettel as a driver for me personally. It is a shame we didnt get to see him in a competitive car post his ferrari stint. Theoretically if Seb was in a ferrari with leclerc or a RB with max or a Merc with Hamilton. Would he beat those guys over a course of a season if he were their teammates? I think not. Yet if you did the same thought exercise with alonso, you'd have to say it would be so close that its impossible to call.

Thats why vettel for me isnt in the truly elite tier.

Did he deserve to be a 4 x WDC? For me no. I dont see him in the same class as Lewis and Alonso. I think those two make far fewer mistakes under pressure. But in Sebs defence, theres a pressure with driving a ferrari which is unique to ferrari.

However i have warmed to seb post ferrari.

I think he might come back to F1 if the right drive became available. Its a shame Porsche and Audi arent joining f1 until 2026 as a experienced german driver would probably be quite attractive to those teams.

Not sure who AM get in to replace him. They need a yardstick drive as stroll isnt upto the task.
I think this is a pretty fair assessment. He did have the best car in those 4 championships, but you've also got to make sure you don't lose it, which is easily done in F1 with the slightest of mistakes. He also showed he can handle the pressure of a chasing pack in 2012.

All that being said, he isn't lightning quick nor an exceptional wheel to wheel driver like Lewis or Max. He was a good driver with an incredible trophy haul. Sadly, he faded terribly after Lewis crushed his spirit.
 
I think this is a pretty fair assessment. He did have the best car in those 4 championships, but you've also got to make sure you don't lose it, which is easily done in F1 with the slightest of mistakes. He also showed he can handle the pressure of a chasing pack in 2012.

All that being said, he isn't lightning quick nor an exceptional wheel to wheel driver like Lewis or Max. He was a good driver with an incredible trophy haul. Sadly, he faded terribly after Lewis crushed his spirit.
Agree with everything except Ferrari crushed him like they do almost every driver not named Schumacher
 
I think he's about a one championship driver. Brilliant on his day and deserving of a WDC, but he doesn't get more than one without a hugely dominant car.

He's a better driver than Leclerc. Not better than Hamilton. It remains to be seen about Max
.

To your points:

Too early to judge
agreed
no debate Max is better.

1st point is the most controversial for me. There is more than a decade apart between the drivers, and LeClerc has shown a lot that he will be a top driver for the next period of drivers. Max will likely end up being one of the most decorated drivers so your 3rd comment is the only one that is most accurate in my view
 
Agree with everything except Ferrari crushed him like they do almost every driver not named Schumacher
Yes, Ferrari played their part too. Binotto threw him under the bus. From what I gather, Binottos not very much liked by Ferrari fans either.
 
To your points:

Too early to judge
agreed
no debate Max is better.

1st point is the most controversial for me. There is more than a decade apart between the drivers, and LeClerc has shown a lot that he will be a top driver for the next period of drivers. Max will likely end up being one of the most decorated drivers so your 3rd comment is the only one that is most accurate in my view

I don't see it with LeClerc. He lacks the x factor to get wins against the odds, which Vettel did do a few times. He reminds me of Massa in 08. A very good driver who will win races but that wont cut it against a guy like Max.

Max himself hasn't done much wrong so far but he needs to win a title without a helping hand before he can sit above a 4 time champion.
 
I don't see it with LeClerc. He lacks the x factor to get wins against the odds, which Vettel did do a few times. He reminds me of Massa in 08. A very good driver who will win races but that wont cut it against a guy like Max.

Max himself hasn't done much wrong so far but he needs to win a title without a helping hand before he can sit above a 4 time champion.
Totally agree.

I'd like to have faith in Leclerc but I don't see that killer instinct that gives him that extra edge against the likes of Hamilton, Alonso or even Max.
 
Does Piastri have links to AM? I was thinking Hulkenberg is the most likely 'solid' choice like Magnusson was for Haas.
The only links are Otmar Szafnauer used to be boss of AM, now he's at Alpine. Piastri is an Alpine driver, so maybe he'd pull a few strings and see if he can get his guy a drive there.

Not sure how that would suit AM though.

Something has to happen with Piastri though, he's too good to be benched another season and Alpine have Alonso who's showing no signs of slowing down, and Ocon who's been consistent.

I guess if I was Alpine i'd make a deal to get him the seat at AM for 1 year, then decide whether to move on Ocon or Alonso.
 
I don't see it with LeClerc. He lacks the x factor to get wins against the odds, which Vettel did do a few times. He reminds me of Massa in 08. A very good driver who will win races but that wont cut it against a guy like Max.

Max himself hasn't done much wrong so far but he needs to win a title without a helping hand before he can sit above a 4 time champion.
Nah, Leclerc is a special driver. He just needs to learn to calm down. Hamilton was the same at his age, they're over driving with the pressure they put themselves under.

The mistakes he makes are by trying to push 105% instead of settling for 95%.

The Ferrari is clearly a great car, but you don't beat Verstappen in qualifying this consistently if you aren't a top class driver.

Leclerc can more than match Verstappen when the cars are equal, we've seen that already. The big difference is handling the pressure right now. Whether Leclerc can get over that will be the big difference.
 
Nah, Leclerc is a special driver. He just needs to learn to calm down. Hamilton was the same at his age, they're over driving with the pressure they put themselves under.

The mistakes he makes are by trying to push 105% instead of settling for 95%.

The Ferrari is clearly a great car, but you don't beat Verstappen in qualifying this consistently if you aren't a top class driver.

Leclerc can more than match Verstappen when the cars are equal, we've seen that already. The big difference is handling the pressure right now. Whether Leclerc can get over that will be the big difference.

But LeClerc needs to drive 105% to beat Max, even when the car is working well. Max (and all the greats from years gone by including Hamilton) can manage a race and win at 95%.
 
But LeClerc needs to drive 105% to beat Max, even when the car is working well. Max (and all the greats from years gone by including Hamilton) can manage a race and win at 95%.
I don't agree with that. We saw in Austria and Bahrain he had no trouble dispatching Max. Last week in France he couldn't get passed Leclerc with a similar paced car.

Leclerc is his own worst enemy. Championships are about consistency, without the silly mistakes and the few unlucky DNFs he'd be right at the top.

Max isn't some unbeatable mythical creature.
 
Nah, Leclerc is a special driver. He just needs to learn to calm down. Hamilton was the same at his age, they're over driving with the pressure they put themselves under.

The mistakes he makes are by trying to push 105% instead of settling for 95%.

The Ferrari is clearly a great car, but you don't beat Verstappen in qualifying this consistently if you aren't a top class driver.

Leclerc can more than match Verstappen when the cars are equal, we've seen that already. The big difference is handling the pressure right now. Whether Leclerc can get over that will be the big difference.

The pressure mentality is what sets drivers apart though, so him being able to get over that is quite a big difference and will be what decides were he goes in all time lists. I'm not saying he won't sort it out and we'll see.

From what we've seen he wouldn't currently keep the car on the track like Hamilton did to gain 18 seconds on Glock in the final lap to win the championship in 2007. It's not just pace, it's keeping it calm and making sure that you don't make mistakes under pressure.
 
The fact he span out shows pretty clearly Leclerc was driving at 105% to keep Max behind, despite having the faster car.

For better or worse Leclerc's driving style relies on him being on or over the limit at all times.
That's my point though, he's driving at that level because of his own pressure. He has accidents like this like in Monaco. He was already the pole sitter yet pushed it too hard again when he didn't need to.

He didn't crash through the pressure of Max behind him, he crashed as he tried to squeeze every last tenth out of his in lap.

The pressure mentality is what sets drivers apart though, so him being able to get over that is quite a big difference and will be what decides were he goes in all time lists. I'm not saying he won't sort it out and we'll see.

From what we've seen he wouldn't currently keep the car on the track like Hamilton did to gain 18 seconds on Glock in the final lap to win the championship in 2007. It's not just pace, it's keeping it calm and making sure that you don't make mistakes under pressure.
Agreed, as I said he's got all the talent but needs to fix this. You can't make mistakes (especially with a failing ferrari) and win a title.
 
Something about the Aston Martin rear wing changes this weekend, didn't quite catch it on commentary
 
Solid session from Mclaren there. Looking like they could be in the top 6 mix this weekend.
 
Something about the Aston Martin rear wing changes this weekend, didn't quite catch it on commentary
Its illegal. Has endplates on it. Not sure how they have gotten away with this. There must be a grey area somewhere.

Also see Haas are now the white ferrari.
 
Hungary GP FP 1 -2 Timesheets
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Totally agree.

I'd like to have faith in Leclerc but I don't see that killer instinct that gives him that extra edge against the likes of Hamilton, Alonso or even Max.

You should have seen him on old hard tyres on Silverstone against Hamilton then. Or overtaking Max three times in one race in Austria. That's just in two-three weeks period.
 
You should have seen him on old hard tyres on Silverstone against Hamilton then. Or overtaking Max three times in one race in Austria. That's just in two-three weeks period.
The Max overtakes were partly due to the new rules and the track format. Its also only a couple of small time situations, not enough to claim he is a great.

I hope I'm wrong, he seems a nice guy, but I just don't see it.
 
The Max overtakes were partly due to the new rules and the track format. Its also only a couple of small time situations, not enough to claim he is a great.

I hope I'm wrong, he seems a nice guy, but I just don't see it.

I must have missed the periods where Max overtook him or anyone else three times this season due to new rules and track format.
 
It's legal, they got it approved by the FIA at every stage of it's development. It'll be interesting to see if any other teams look at similar designs.

I'm guessing it doesn't produce more turbulent air the way they've done it then? If it does and they've just found a grey area in the rules I'm sure it'll be closed pretty quickly
 
The fact he span out shows pretty clearly Leclerc was driving at 105% to keep Max behind, despite having the faster car.

For better or worse Leclerc's driving style relies on him being on or over the limit at all times.

If he was driving on the limit all the time his tire and fuel management would go to shit in every race. The drivers don't get to decide how hard they push during races, they have a plan in place at all times which very rarely calls for them to push as hard as they can and often target lap times on top of that. They can obviously paint outside the lines a bit when the situation calls for it but that wouldn't apply in a situation where your main rival is in an undercut position like we saw when he crashed last week. Maybe Leclerc was told to push in that situation because he was about to box within a lap or so, but he could just as well have been on a plan for a longer stint and simply fecked up anyway.

I personally think he's too hot headed in high pressure situations and hasn't learned how to handle it just yet. He's still very young, the main guy in the biggest team in the game and he's probably the driver with the most pressure to deliver so now when the season has started to slip through his fingers it's probably only gotten worse.
 
I'm not sure why Max is being elevated to God status in here and talked about as a mythical figure. Looking at the facts, Max and Lewis were dead even last year. During the final race he started on faster tyres, couldn't take the lead. His team mate did God's work to eliminate a gigantic gap for him to take the lead, only for him to lose it again, and then with much much much fresher tyres he was unable to retake the lead. They threw the kitchen sink at him and even then it still took Masi gate to sew it up. That doesn't downplay him, it just shows that he was at most equal to Lewis last year.

This year he hasn't done anything to elevate himself ahead of his peers, Lewis has a garbage car that he's still hitting consecutive podiums with but they're too far off the pace and Ferrari are actively sabotaging themselves week in week out, he has no competition this year. Even when Ferrari's car works perfectly it looks like the Red Bull is (with some exceptions) going to be 2nd best, until ol' reliable Ferrari either crash, have a breakdown or make the most mind boggling pit strategies ever and throw it away. We haven't seen Max do anything yet to show he's grown in his skill, the rest of his competitors just went backwards but there's almost a revisionist view of Max put forward by his supporters. If Mercedes were competitive and Ferrari weren't throwing spanners in their own works and Max was still comfortably beating them then sure you'd have to concede he was a tier above. As it happens, he won a championship that up until a decision that even Red Bull have admitted was a mistake, he was losing and he's had no competition since. He's performing the best this year out of all the drivers, that's absolutely for sure but there's a weird rush to make out he's become a driving God when there reason he's winning by so much is actually painfully obvious.
 
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From Brazil onwards the Merc was 0.8-1s per lap faster than the Red Bull in race trim. Much faster on high fuel and much kinder on the tyres, while Red Bull had no choice but to set the car up for qualy to try and get on pole and hope for the best. Max was fighting with both hands behind his back in those last 4 races. Fortunately a bit of karma came through at the end.

This season he's doing what he has to do to win the title. What more should he be doing? So far he's winning in a title fight against a rival and car that are orders of magnitude faster than any opponent Lewis has faced in the Merc, last season not withstanding.

Max will have more race wins and more titles than Lewis at the same age and that's not by accident.
That’s a bold claim and by no means a formality. Lewis is the more talented driver.
 
From Brazil onwards the Merc was 0.8-1s per lap faster than the Red Bull in race trim. Much faster on high fuel and much kinder on the tyres, while Red Bull had no choice but to set the car up for qualy to try and get on pole and hope for the best. Max was fighting with both hands behind his back in those last 4 races. Fortunately a bit of karma came through at the end.

This season he's doing what he has to do to win the title. What more should he be doing? So far he's winning in a title fight against a rival and car that are orders of magnitude faster than any opponent Lewis has faced in the Merc, last season not withstanding.

Max will have more race wins and more titles than Lewis at the same age and that's not by accident.
:lol: wow what a delusional post. Its poster like these who warp their own reality.
#deluded

Note to self, add hobbers to ignore list.
 
Max is setting himself up nicely to be considered amongst the greats. But it’s farcical to suggest he’s some kind of GOAT. He’s not even close.
 
Anyone else think Max's career might be very similar to Vettel's ? Reckon they will win at least three titles together before parting ways, Max will be less of a dick and then just become another driver on the grid.