F1 2022 Season

[TheMagicFoolBus]

It’s strange though, that Ferrari bounces around like crazy too but it doesn’t seem to impact performance as it does to Mercedes. The reality is, this Mercedes car isn’t going to be competitive this season and, if they’ve made a mistake in their unfeeling car ethos, they may not be catching up next season either.

It’s amazing how Newey consistently makes brilliant cars aerodynamically. Have they ever been off the pace from that perspective ever since they began winning with Vettel? I know obviously at times they were a long way back from Mercedes but to me that stemmed from engine deficit which they had to compensate for with an unoptimal aero setup.

Could have sworn I read some analysis somewhere showing that the Ferrari is mostly bouncing only at the highest speed on the ends of straights, but as soon as any braking is applied it locks back down to the track. For Mercedes, they are still having porpoising issues on corner entries, which is making things extremely difficult for the drivers (and could perhaps explain why Russell has adapted better - obviously he's far more used to a shitbox car than Lewis).

Dunno the extent to which this might be down to the sidepod design? If McClaren's improvement is genuine, then with the same Merc engine it would suggest that the benefits in downforce and cooling from the wider sidepod likely outweigh the aero benefits - which might be negated by the porpoising issue anyhow.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

People have very short memories. They forget he had a team mate who became world champion.
They forget the number of races he has won.
If that was lucky, we would all wish for that type of luck.

Exactly, give me some of that luck.

 

[Rado_N]

The simple answer is he had a poor start off the line, then when he caught Perez DRS wasn't turned on because of the wet track.

They clearly had the car setup for more downforce/less top speed relying on the DRS to overtake, but the red bull is too fast in a straight line.

He eventually settled for 3rd but then pitted for soft tyres to do the fastest lap, but then so did both red bulls. He then pushed too hard and span.

They weren't exactly slow today he just never got the chance to chase Max.

Thanks

 

[dinostar77]

God imola is a crap track. Probably most boring race of season so far, which is saying alot with Spain and Monaco to come.

Not good that russell is getting back and chest pains from the porposing. Definitely out performing the car at present.

Hopefully we can get the leclerc/max track battle back for miami

 

[senorgregster]

Not a good race to watch, at all. Which is saying something when it was wet. Great weekend for Max. Didn't think we'd see this maturity from him so soon. If he keeps grinding I see Ferrari doing their thing and being the bridesmaid again with max getting his 2nd WDC. Sainz is firmly support driver now. Russell and Hamilton is interesting. Hamilton slightly underperforming Russell but then getting caught up like you do in the middle of the pack. I just don't see how Mercedes and Hamilton get close anytime soon. His records are about done.

 

[Zarlak]

Max has DNF'd half the races in the season. Let's not call the race as over in his favour just yet, LeClerc will still be in the lead even if he DNF's and Max wins. The Ferrari is incredibly strong and today was just a bland race. The rain giving everyone on the left side a boost off the start and no DRS for 30 laps so no overtaking and Max with an hour of complete clean air. On any other day there'd have been a fight at the front again like yesterday where on equal conditions he jumped Max off the start line and held him off for 20 laps. Sainz unlucky with Daniel hitting him, nothing he could have done about that.

The title race is likely over for Hamilton unless they fix their issues quick, but the fact that they're so stubbornly sticking with their design means they must have an absolute beast under there that they believe in otherwise they'd have changed out their radical design already. Whether they fix it in time or not is another matter but doesn't seem likely, Toto's message to Hamilton today had no positivity, just apologies so the situation looking grim for the foreseeable. I think it's a bit knee jerky to say his records are done, you don't go from being the best constructor of all of them to completely done with just because of a poor season. Ferrari had years of poor seasons and look at them now.

 

[Camilo]

The older you get and the more you've already fought, the less interest you have of fighting to get back to the top if things go wrong.

Hamilton will retire soon, because he's already been through the fight and he won't be arsed with a crap car. Doesn't make him a bad driver, doesn't make Russell (a man who's achieved nothing) a better driver. It's just life. If Mercedes sort the car out this season he'll probably stick around, if they don't he'll doubtless go try something else.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

The older you get and the more you've already fought, the less interest you have of fighting to get back to the top if things go wrong.

Hamilton will retire soon, because he's already been through the fight and he won't be arsed with a crap car. Doesn't make him a bad driver, doesn't make Russell (a man who's achieved nothing) a better driver. It's just life. If Mercedes sort the car out this season he'll probably stick around, if they don't he'll doubtless go try something else.

This is a fair comment.

 

[laughtersassassin]

God imola is a crap track. Probably most boring race of season so far, which is saying alot with Spain and Monaco to come.

Not good that russell is getting back and chest pains from the porposing. Definitely out performing the car at present.

Hopefully we can get the leclerc/max track battle back for miami

if Russell is getting pains from the porposing its up to Merc to fix it or if they wish compromise speed.

Been a lot of talk recently the F1 should step in but that's nonsense when it affects so few teams. They simply have to develop out of it themselves

The other teams earned the advantage

 

[SilentWitness]

if Russell is getting pains from the porposing its up to Merc to fix it or if they wish compromise speed.

Been a lot of talk recently the F1 should step in but that's nonsense when it affects so few teams.

I agree that it’s up to the teams to be able to design the car so porpoising doesn’t occur but I do also agree that the FIA should step in and forced them to design so the porpoising doesn’t occur when it becomes a health and safety issue as Russel is now claiming it is.

 

[dinostar77]

The older you get and the more you've already fought, the less interest you have of fighting to get back to the top if things go wrong.

Hamilton will retire soon, because he's already been through the fight and he won't be arsed with a crap car. Doesn't make him a bad driver, doesn't make Russell (a man who's achieved nothing) a better driver. It's just life. If Mercedes sort the car out this season he'll probably stick around, if they don't he'll doubtless go try something else.

As Ted Kravitz said on the notebook, hamilton will not retire and let the fiasco of abu dhabi define him. He will see this through and get Mercedes competitive again.

So if this season is a complete right off he will be here next season with a competitive car.

 

[laughtersassassin]

I agree that it’s up to the teams to be able to design the car so porpoising doesn’t occur but I do also agree that the FIA should step in and forced them to design so the porpoising doesn’t occur when it becomes a health and safety issue as Russel is now claiming it is.

They should just have to raise the ride height at the expense of speed until they can actually fix it. It's a fix just not one Mercedes want to use.

 

[dinostar77]

if Russell is getting pains from the porposing its up to Merc to fix it or if they wish compromise speed.

Been a lot of talk recently the F1 should step in but that's nonsense when it affects so few teams. They simply have to develop out of it themselves

The other teams earned the advantage

Thats because its originally the FIAs cockup in the first place. They defined the rules had their engineers and aerodynamics consider everything and they missed it. All the teams missed it, but the FIA spent alot lf time trying to get this right and they completely missed it.

The pinnacle of motorsport is going to become a laughing stock when they visit miami for the first time and you have cars bouncing up and down the straights.

FIA take health and safety very seriously, if it does become a helath concern their will issue a edict, most likely a minimum rise in ride height to counter the porposing.

The only team that truly did its homework and earned an advantage got screwed over and that was alpine. They designed a more rigid floor that didnt flex and wasnt affected as much as the other teams. But the FIA allowed all the teams the use of stays at the rear of the floor to help provide more rigidity. If that hadnt of been allowed, alpine would have kept an advantage over the rest of the grid.

 

[Adam-Utd]

, but the fact that they're so stubbornly sticking with their design means they must have an absolute beast under there that they believe in otherwise they'd have changed out their radical design already. Whether they fix it in time or not is another matter but doesn't seem likely, Toto's message to Hamilton today had no positivity, just apologies so the situation looking grim for the foreseeable. I think it's a bit knee jerky to say his records are done, you don't go from being the best constructor of all of them to completely done with just because of a poor season. Ferrari had years of poor seasons and look at them now.

Well they don't really have a choice. It's not that easy to just rip it up and start again.

A) Budget caps exist now. They can't throw endless amounts of money at a problem to fix it like they could have in past years.

B) Do their engineers actually understand where they've gone wrong? is it so completely embedded in their design that they need to change the whole car?

C) Are they actually close to sorting the problem, but need a few more weeks to redesign/test it? remember they can only actually test things with real world data. They can't use a wind tunnel or a real life test vehicle. Everything has to be done during a free practice session - but if they do that they lose time to actually setup the car.

Unfortunately if you've made a real pig of it, it's pretty much game over until next year unless it's fairly simple to sort it out.

 

[dinostar77]

They should just have to raise the ride height at the expense of speed until they can actually fix it. It's a fix just not one Mercedes want to use.

That has (raising the ride height for qually and race) is already in use by a number of teams Mercedes included and has been all season so far.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I agree that it’s up to the teams to be able to design the car so porpoising doesn’t occur but I do also agree that the FIA should step in and forced them to design so the porpoising doesn’t occur when it becomes a health and safety issue as Russel is now claiming it is.

Mercedes can raise their car to stop it bottoming out and reduce porpoising levels. It's their choice to run it that low to remain competitive.

If Russell is having problems they'll just have to sit at the back of the grid.

 

[dinostar77]

Well they don't really have a choice. It's not that easy to just rip it up and start again.

A) Budget caps exist now. They can't throw endless amounts of money at a problem to fix it like they could have in past years.

B) Do their engineers actually understand where they've gone wrong? is it so completely embedded in their design that they need to change the whole car?

C) Are they actually close to sorting the problem, but need a few more weeks to redesign/test it? remember they can only actually test things with real world data. They can't use a wind tunnel or a real life test vehicle. Everything has to be done during a free practice session - but if they do that they lose time to actually setup the car.

Unfortunately if you've made a real pig of it, it's pretty much game over until next year unless it's fairly simple to sort it out.

Totto said they have parts coming for miami. Agree with point (a), if there wasnt a budget cap they would have thrown everything at this issue.

As for (b), it a huge annoyance for Mercedes as the car without porposing in the simulations is extremely quick. I dont think they want to give up on the design philosophy becuase they think its the right one that will give them huge gains. Unfortunately for them, until porposing is resolved, any other car development, is on hold.

(c) I'm not convinced they have managed to get to the crux of the issue, if they had then they would have a new floor arriving asap, but there is no mention of a new floor so far.

I still find it amazing that a car as bad as the Mercedes is getting p4, p5 in races. Obviously russell is used to driving a bad car and getting the best out of it from his williams years. But still, the question remains, get the porposing resolved, allow both drivers to go back to how they drive the cars (they cant brake as late as they want at present due to the porposing) and lets see how quick the car actually is. I think its definitely behind the RB and Ferrari but with some tuning and refinement they could catchup, if only the porposing can get resolved.

 

[SilentWitness]

They should just have to raise the ride height at the expense of speed until they can actually fix it. It's a fix just not one Mercedes want to use.

Mercedes can raise their car to stop it bottoming out and reduce porpoising levels. It's their choice to run it that low to remain competitive.

If Russell is having problems they'll just have to sit at the back of the grid.

Which is basically what I just said. FIA should enforce a rule where they tell teams that they have to fix the issue, even if it is detrimental to their performance.

 

[dinostar77]

Which is basically what I just said. FIA should enforce a rule where they tell teams that they have to fix the issue, even if it is detrimental to their performance.

The teams are trying to fix the issue, its not that simple a fix. Many are raising the ride height for qually and race and losing laptime. Your point being?

 

[mitChley]

Which is basically what I just said. FIA should enforce a rule where they tell teams that they have to fix the issue, even if it is detrimental to their performance.

100%. Lots of teams have solved it, maybe over 50% of the grid. If Russell is suffering health issues due to Mercedes problems then Mercedes should be forced to put in place a fix even at the detriment of performance. Why punish the rest of the grid

 

[Adam-Utd]

Totto said they have parts coming for miami. Agree with point (a), if there wasnt a budget cap they would have thrown everything at this issue.

As for (b), it a huge annoyance for Mercedes as the car without porposing in the simulations is extremely quick. I dont think they want to give up on the design philosophy becuase they think its the right one that will give them huge gains. Unfortunately for them, until porposing is resolved, any other car development, is on hold.

(c) I'm not convinced they have managed to get to the crux of the issue, if they had then they would have a new floor arriving asap, but there is no mention of a new floor so far.

I still find it amazing that a car as bad as the Mercedes is getting p4, p5 in races. Obviously russell is used to driving a bad car and getting the best out of it from his williams years. But still, the question remains, get the porposing resolved, allow both drivers to go back to how they drive the cars (they cant brake as late as they want at present due to the porposing) and lets see how quick the car actually is. I think its definitely behind the RB and Ferrari but with some tuning and refinement they could catchup, if only the porposing can get resolved.

It will be interesting to see once they get it sorted just how quick it can be. As you say they've got big problems but they're still fighting with the mid pack.

As you say, I think the porpoising is another big reason as to why Hamilton was maybe not as brave on the brakes as he could have been. Imagine going 200mph and bouncing up and down so hard that your vision becomes blurry. Yeah, not surprised. We saw with Russell/Bottas last year how small the margin of error is at that corner.

It is a little surprising that they don't seem to have an actual fix in sight yet, but I suppose they have to wait until the redesign is ready to then trial it in the real world.

 

[SilentWitness]

The teams are trying to fix the issue, its not that simple a fix. Many are raising the ride height for qually and race and losing laptime. Your point being?

My point being that in a sport where people can be killed it seems rather negligent that they aren't enforcing a rule that tells teams that they have to get it sorted because it's putting strain/damage on drivers during races which can lead to body stress and accidents.

EDIT: Not just accidents but what are the long term implications? I know they wear helmets but it can't be healthy for the brain to be rattling around at 200mph.

 

[dinostar77]

My point being that in a sport where people can be killed it seems rather negligent that they aren't enforcing a rule that tells teams that they have to get it sorted because it's putting strain/damage on drivers during races which can lead to body stress and accidents.

They are trying to sort it out though, they are limited and constrained by a budget cap now. There isnt a requirement for a rule as every man and his dog can see it needs to be resolved in order to start to understand your car.

As adam-utd said, its not a problem that can be fixed via CFD or wind tunnels. Only actually pounding (literally) the race track mile after mile to try to understand how to counter act it within the rulebook.

 

[SilentWitness]

They are trying to sort it out though, they are limited and constrained by a budget cap now. There isnt a requirement for a rule as every man and his dog can see it needs to be resolved in order to start to understand your car.

As adam-utd said, its not a problem that can be fixed via CFD or wind tunnels. Only actually pounding (literally) the race track mile after mile to try to understand how to counter act it within the rulebook.

It's a tricky one but it's still negligence when drivers health and safety (Short and long term) comes into play. Something needs to budge. I'm a Hamilton/Russel/Norris fan but I would rather they were at the back of the grid and 'healthy/safe' than busting their balls for mid-tier finishes and damaging their health/potentially endagering their own and other drivers safety at the same time.

It's hard because if you tell them they can't race then how are they meant to solve it because they don't have on track experience / you can't let them test by themselves without other teams because of the unfair advantage. Similarly if you gave them more budget to solve it too. I don't know, i feel like top tier engineers/designers/aero people would be able to solve it though and they're just not because of how badly it will impact their performance when they're already terrible.

 

[dinostar77]

It will be interesting to see once they get it sorted just how quick it can be. As you say they've got big problems but they're still fighting with the mid pack.

As you say, I think the porpoising is another big reason as to why Hamilton was maybe not as brave on the brakes as he could have been. Imagine going 200mph and bouncing up and down so hard that your vision becomes blurry. Yeah, not surprised. We saw with Russell/Bottas last year how small the margin of error is at that corner.

It is a little surprising that they don't seem to have an actual fix in sight yet, but I suppose they have to wait until the redesign is ready to then trial it in the real world.

There was one lap when russell had a chance at the end of the main straight into the breaking zone of getting past bottas. He didnt take the chance, as Paul DiResta pointed out, the porposing affects your ability to judge the braking zone properly and it takes away any confidence you have that the car will do as you ask it.

It is one of the most interesting mysteries this season as to why ferrari with their porposing have no issues under braking, but the Mercedes is still porposing under breaking.

As for the fix who knows why they havent worked it out already? Or maybe they have and it takes time (weeks maybe), to print the required parts i.e. a new floor.

Mercedes has some of the worst porposing on the grid, which means its generating some of the highest downforce on the grid, by its very nature the porposing effect is the floor attaching and detaching itself as the car generates generates downforce. Which is why i think Mercedes believe in thief design philosophy, the performance is there, it needs to be unlocked.

Using that same line of thinking, the ferrari is already a very quick car, also suffers from porposing. If ferrari get that resolved, how much quicker can they go? When they can turly dial in the car for the circuit? On the other side of the coin, RB seem to be running a completely flat floor so literally no porposing therefore can they match the ferrari when ferrari get their porposing resolved?

 

[dinostar77]

It's a tricky one but it's still negligence when drivers health and safety (Short and long term) comes into play. Something needs to budge. I'm a Hamilton/Russel/Norris fan but I would rather they were at the back of the grid and 'healthy/safe' than busting their balls for mid-tier finishes and damaging their health/potentially endagering their own and other drivers safety at the same time.

Its a catch 22 situation, raise the ride height to the point where you have no porposing and then your stuck at the back of the grid, but your drivers are safe. But you arent learning anything from the data.

Or run it as low as you can get away with throw extra sensors on the car and get the agreement of your drivers to grin and bare it for awhile.

The drivers will always choose the latter as they are racers and want to go racing and win. Short term discomfort for the potential of a long term fix to allow them to be competitive.

 

[Adam-Utd]

@dinostar77

This is why I love F1. I hope eventually it comes out in the future as to why they were struggling, how they fixed it etc.

I'm quite sure they know why/how Porpoising happens, but I guess they're struggling to understand what is causing the problem on their car. Is the floor not sealed well, does the back end have too much downforce compared to the front and causing a see saw action?. Have they designed their floor to be too light/flexible and it's causing instability?

As you say other teams seem to have got to the bottom of it, i'm struggling to understand why Mercedes of all people seem to be hit the worst by it.

 

[senorgregster]

Max has DNF'd half the races in the season. Let's not call the race as over in his favour just yet, LeClerc will still be in the lead even if he DNF's and Max wins. The Ferrari is incredibly strong and today was just a bland race. The rain giving everyone on the left side a boost off the start and no DRS for 30 laps so no overtaking and Max with an hour of complete clean air. On any other day there'd have been a fight at the front again like yesterday where on equal conditions he jumped Max off the start line and held him off for 20 laps. Sainz unlucky with Daniel hitting him, nothing he could have done about that.

The title race is likely over for Hamilton unless they fix their issues quick, but the fact that they're so stubbornly sticking with their design means they must have an absolute beast under there that they believe in otherwise they'd have changed out their radical design already. Whether they fix it in time or not is another matter but doesn't seem likely, Toto's message to Hamilton today had no positivity, just apologies so the situation looking grim for the foreseeable. I think it's a bit knee jerky to say his records are done, you don't go from being the best constructor of all of them to completely done with just because of a poor season. Ferrari had years of poor seasons and look at them now.

Their leap required a big change in regs. Something that doesn't happen too frequently. I don't see Hamilton being around for the next change in regs.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Their leap required a big change in regs. Something that doesn't happen too frequently. I don't see Hamilton being around for the next change in regs.

Mercedes could very easily produce the fastest car next season.

This season, I can't see them coming back.

 

[senorgregster]

Mercedes could very easily produce the fastest car next season.

This season, I can't see them coming back.

Let's see. I wonder if by mid season they'll start tinkering with very new ideas during full races.

 

[redshaw]

The porpoising looks bad for the driver and not nice to see from a viewer perspective. Watching Merc onboard it reminds me of the horror film Jacob's Ladder.

With the Ferrari at Imola and Australia at high speed it almost looks if it hit a certain part of the track it could launch off into a barrier it's that bad. I worry at side by side driving at high speed and trying to make tiny adjustments in steering.

 

[SilentWitness]

Its a catch 22 situation, raise the ride height to the point where you have no porposing and then your stuck at the back of the grid, but your drivers are safe. But you arent learning anything from the data.

Or run it as low as you can get away with throw extra sensors on the car and get the agreement of your drivers to grin and bare it for awhile.

The drivers will always choose the latter as they are racers and want to go racing and win. Short term discomfort for the potential of a long term fix to allow them to be competitive.

I suppose part of the problem though is we don't have the data either on how it can impact their long term health.

If FIA enforced rules to stop porpoising it'd kill Ferrari's competitiveness dead.

Indeed which is why it's tricky.

 

[James Peril]

People have very short memories. They forget he had a team mate who became world champion.
They forget the number of races he has won.
If that was lucky, we would all wish for that type of luck.

Having a team mate winning the championship more likely underlines the fact that Mercedes have been much better than the grid for all of the years of utterly dominating in that era. Not just an advantage, an absolute advantage, a different sport. Nobody is undermining Hamilton's historic abilities, but I think it is fair to say he has been driving a much better car and that many of his wins have been easy in that regard. If Hamilton drove a Red Bull and somebody else drove the Mercedes, he would not have 100 wins, simple as that. Between 2010 and 2013, Hamilton won 11 races. In 2014 the new engine system was introduced and he won 11 races in one fecking year, it goes without saying the car was smashing all others, not his ability alone.

With that being said, nobody can take his wins from him and he will always be on top of the charts, no matter how lucky his timing has been in the history of things. He has more wins and as many championships as Michael Schumacher, but I would never put him on top of him in terms of true racing ability. Schumacher was up against Hakkinen and the sorts, Hamilton has won tons of races on "bad" days just because his car was still faster than the next best and then some. On a good day, he just had so steer it past the finish line and win by default. Not anymore though, he is old and his car sucks, hence he is completely irrelevant and next season he will probably make way for a younger and more hungry driver.

 

[Balljy]

I suppose part of the problem though is we don't have the data either on how it can impact their long term health.

I wondered about potential brain injuries with the repeated violent movements for 2 hours at that speed over a number of weeks. It's not exactly something I'd want to put myself through for a length of time.

 

[Buster15]

Having a team mate winning the championship more likely underlines the fact that Mercedes have been much better than the grid for all of the years of utterly dominating in that era. Not just an advantage, an absolute advantage, a different sport. Nobody is undermining Hamilton's historic abilities, but I think it is fair to say he has been driving a much better car and that many of his wins have been easy in that regard. If Hamilton drove a Red Bull and somebody else drove the Mercedes, he would not have 100 wins, simple as that. Between 2010 and 2013, Hamilton won 11 races. In 2014 the new engine system was introduced and he won 11 races in one fecking year, it goes without saying the car was smashing all others, not his ability alone.

With that being said, nobody can take his wins from him and he will always be on top of the charts, no matter how lucky his timing has been in the history of things. He has more wins and as many championships as Michael Schumacher, but I would never put him on top of him in terms of true racing ability. Schumacher was up against Hakkinen and the sorts, Hamilton has won tons of races on "bad" days just because his car was still faster than the next best and then some. On a good day, he just had so steer it past the finish line and win by default. Not anymore though, he is old and his car sucks, hence he is completely irrelevant and next season he will probably make way for a younger and more hungry driver.

Just 2 points I would like to make.
He was not lucky with timing. It was Hamilton who decided to break with McLaren and switch to the very new and unproven Mercedes F1 team. You I am sure will remember how surprised many were about that.

And I am old enough to remember the Schumacher era. He was also driving by far the best Ferrari at the time. And his team mates were also successful.
But in my opinion, Hamilton is just that bit better than Schumacher.

 

[redshaw]

No more "Hammer Time" for Lewis, it's now "Hamster Time"

 

[vangagal]

Schumacher drove the best car means he is the best but Hamilton drove the best car means he is just lucky. What kind of logic is that? Does that mean Prost Senna just lucky to won it before too?
Deary me, if some of you lot just say outright that you hate Lewis and hope he fecked off soon this thread might be a little bit better. Its quite boring with this Lewis debate, they are going nowhere.

 

[The Firestarter]

No more "Hammer Time" for Lewis, it's now "Hamster Time"

 

[Fluctuation0161]

No more "Hammer Time" for Lewis, it's now "Hamster Time"

"Taxi Time" for you.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Having a team mate winning the championship more likely underlines the fact that Mercedes have been much better than the grid for all of the years of utterly dominating in that era. Not just an advantage, an absolute advantage, a different sport. Nobody is undermining Hamilton's historic abilities, but I think it is fair to say he has been driving a much better car and that many of his wins have been easy in that regard. If Hamilton drove a Red Bull and somebody else drove the Mercedes, he would not have 100 wins, simple as that. Between 2010 and 2013, Hamilton won 11 races. In 2014 the new engine system was introduced and he won 11 races in one fecking year, it goes without saying the car was smashing all others, not his ability alone.

With that being said, nobody can take his wins from him and he will always be on top of the charts, no matter how lucky his timing has been in the history of things. He has more wins and as many championships as Michael Schumacher, but I would never put him on top of him in terms of true racing ability. Schumacher was up against Hakkinen and the sorts, Hamilton has won tons of races on "bad" days just because his car was still faster than the next best and then some. On a good day, he just had so steer it past the finish line and win by default. Not anymore though, he is old and his car sucks, hence he is completely irrelevant and next season he will probably make way for a younger and more hungry driver.

That's just formula 1 for you. Pretty much every champion in history since the 80's have won the championship in the best car. Even back in Schumachers day yes sometimes he had competition, on other days he'd win the race by a minute.

Back in the 80/90s you could perhaps outdrive the car more easily, but these days everything is so finely tuned the car is king. Nobody is winning the championship in a Williams.

Sometimes luck comes into it too. For instance, Pastor Maldonado has won a race. Neither Norris or Russell have when they are clearly much better quality drivers. Does that make Maldonado better?

What Hamilton has had is huge determination and consistency, and thrives under pressure while others wilt.

As we've seen with Carlos Sainz you can be a very talented driver but sometimes the pressure gets to you and you start making unusual mistakes.