F1 2021 Season

Slevs said:
Sooooo the main question is... Why doesn't Hamilton switch to a new engine every race?
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Because Brazil was perfect in terms of track layout. You also don’t want to be starting too many races in the pack, look at what happened to Lando, that would be title over for Lewis.

It sounds like the next one should be good for the Merc too, but I don’t think it’s obvious as everyone thinks that Hamilton goes out and blitzes the last two races. That Red Bull is crazy around any part of the track that isn’t straight.
 
Clutching at straws, but the only thing I would give Horner is that at least he is transparent about it. He won’t ever say “of course I’m a hypocrite” but he won’t hide that he will do whatever it takes for his team even if that’s being a dick or a hypocrite.

Doesn’t make him any less of a twat and I still dislike him very much. But he’s be worse if he tried to act as if he was a saint on top of all his bullshit.
 
F-Red said:
There's no betting that the last 3 tracks will be as easy as Brazil to overtake on, it's a power hungry track. Qatar will only have one DRS zone and looks to be pretty dull outside of the main straight so it feels track position will be all important (see Bahrain's GP this year). So a 5 place penalty at every track isn't the right approach to do.

Motorsport Italy reported that AMG HPP have mapped an engine to perform to 2500km which covers the rest of the races, and tested this on Bottas during the penalties he took at Sochi, Italy and USA, so I would expect to see similar levels of performance from Hamilton in the next two GPs without the need the drop new ICE's in the car. Wolff confirmed in an interview on Saturday that they're not expecting to take anymore engine penalties. Given that other cars/drivers will be on engines that will be coming towards 5-7 races by Abu Dhabi, the need to put new ICE's probably isn't as important as it was in Brazil this weekend.
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In addition to this, I'm sure the cost of having and implementing a new engine is a serious barrier to why this would never to be feasible.
 
I missed the race but what a drive by Hamilton apparently. Reading the reports, it looks like he turned it on. Of course having the quickest car helps (with the new engine) but still takes skill/balls to drive like that.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Horner is insufferable. Such a hypocrite claiming that was just a racing incident and he wouldn't expect anything if the roles were reversed.
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Genuinely I can't remember when someone in sport has gotten under my skin so much. In Silverstone Lewis went in a bit hot, Max did nothing to avoid, Max goes off and Horner accuses Hamilton of putting his driver in the hospital. Here Max goes in waaaayyyy too hot, Lewis avoids the conctact and its "hard racing". Its probably the 5th or 6th such incident this season. Its terrible PR for him and RBR and honestly I think in the long term it will hurt Max because, unless Horner is giving him hell behind closed doors, Horner is enabling this behaviour in Max. My dearest hope is that both teams have decent cars next year and either Lewis or Russell put Max away for a few years.
 
WeePat said:
Has anyone seen Max's onboard yet?
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Still not been released by the FIA. I assume they'll not bother and keep it quiet now.

Literally everybody is in agreement they messed up. It's quite annoying that nobody from Mercedes questioned them more on it.

What's even more annoying is hearing that Jonathan Wheatley coming over the radio CONSTANTLY knowing Micheal Masi is a fraud and he's got him by the balls.

"what happened to let them race Micheal" :lol: I can't believe they went along with that.
 
slyadams said:
Genuinely I can't remember when someone in sport has gotten under my skin so much. In Silverstone Lewis went in a bit hot, Max did nothing to avoid, Max goes off and Horner accuses Hamilton of putting his driver in the hospital. Here Max goes in waaaayyyy too hot, Lewis avoids the conctact and its "hard racing". Its probably the 5th or 6th such incident this season. Its terrible PR for him and RBR and honestly I think in the long term it will hurt Max because, unless Horner is giving him hell behind closed doors, Horner is enabling this behaviour in Max. My dearest hope is that both teams have decent cars next year and either Lewis or Russell put Max away for a few years.
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Horner and Max are the same (and as a result, I don't think they have any words with Max, they enable him).

It's always a racing incident or "let them race" principle when it's Max. Then they moan if Lewis holds/pushes his line.
WeePat said:
Has anyone seen Max's onboard yet?
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I can understand stewards saying they couldn't penalise him to a certain extent yesterday without the front facing camera but I don't see why they can't keep chasing that (I think they are) and if appropriate, penalise him for the next GP.

SKY were saying it was frustrating their live feed switched to the rear facing just at the crucial moment. So what? That doesn't mean you switched the cameras off, the film is still there?

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021...g-camera-not-available-in-hamilton-move-call/
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Horner and Max are the same (and as a result, I don't think they have any words with Max, they enable him).

It's always a racing incident or "let them race" principle when it's Max. Then they moan if Lewis holds/pushes his line.

I can understand stewards saying they couldn't penalise him to a certain extent yesterday without the front facing camera but I don't see why they can't keep chasing that (I think they are) and if appropriate, penalise him for the next GP.

SKY were saying it was frustrating their live feed switched to the rear facing just at the crucial moment. So what? That doesn't mean you switched the cameras off, the film is still there?

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021...g-camera-not-available-in-hamilton-move-call/
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Can they do that?

Normally that kind of incident is taken care of in the race (5 or 10 second penalty).

From what I saw i was surprised he didn't get a punishment.. and Lewis did well to avoid the accident

Not sure what tools are available to the fia but my gut feel is I'd be surprised to see them do anything in the next gp... perhaps retrospectively add 5 seconds to his time in Brazil so he still finished 2nd?
 
redshaw said:
What a great race that was.

I noticed Max and Horner couldn't bring themselves to compliment Lewis even after coming back from 20th and 10th to win the race. Lewis has complimented Max many times.

Maybe in other interviews they have but not in the main ones,
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Max and RB have pretty much had it all their own way in the last few races.
But this time, I was looking at Max body language on the podium. Talk about a forced smile.
He is a brilliant driver. Don't doubt that. But real champions are still able to deal with adversity. Max still has some way to go to be a respected champion, rather than a spoilt schoolboy.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Still not been released by the FIA. I assume they'll not bother and keep it quiet now.

Literally everybody is in agreement they messed up. It's quite annoying that nobody from Mercedes questioned them more on it.

What's even more annoying is hearing that Jonathan Wheatley coming over the radio CONSTANTLY knowing Micheal Masi is a fraud and he's got him by the balls.

"what happened to let them race Micheal" :lol: I can't believe they went along with that.
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Link just posted by someone.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021...y-for-over-the-limit-verstappen-is-laughable/
 
rpitroda said:
I just read that the 0.2mm breach on the rear wing was right in the corner on one side of the wing. If that’s true, I still understand that by the rules there should be a penalty. But it does make me question whether there should be some margin of error for checks post session. I am not an engineer but I would presume it’s plausible for damage to cause that kind of breach, especially if it’s just isolated to one tiny area of the wing?
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Especially because Mercedes state that this was the result of some kind of failure. They have still not be given access to the subject rear wing.
 
Buster15 said:
Max and RB have pretty much had it all their own way in the last few races.
But this time, I was looking at Max body language on the podium. Talk about a forced smile.
He is a brilliant driver. Don't doubt that. But real champions are still able to deal with adversity. Max still has some way to go to be a respected champion, rather than a spoilt schoolboy.
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This is my problem with him. As great a talent as he is he's being pandered to all the way from people like Horner who deny every error he makes and cry foul against him at every opportunity.

Maybe it's just inexperience but I see a need for him to grow up rapidly if he wants global acclaim for the rest of his career.

I used to think similar about Vettel when he was at the top but he's now one of my favourite drivers he's learned how to balance his ability with not being a dick all the time and he's all the better for it.

The worry is if Max is pedastalled like this for too long he's not going to think about consequences enough down the line and that could get him or someone else hurt.
 
sun_tzu said:
Can they do that?

Normally that kind of incident is taken care of in the race (5 or 10 second penalty).

From what I saw i was surprised he didn't get a punishment.. and Lewis did well to avoid the accident

Not sure what tools are available to the fia but my gut feel is I'd be surprised to see them do anything in the next gp... perhaps retrospectively add 5 seconds to his time in Brazil so he still finished 2nd?
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Bottas ended 3 seconds behind Max I think? I had no idea that stewards didn't have access to all camera angles - that's the bit of this that I find most surprising.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Horner and Max are the same (and as a result, I don't think they have any words with Max, they enable him).

It's always a racing incident or "let them race" principle when it's Max. Then they moan if Lewis holds/pushes his line.

I can understand stewards saying they couldn't penalise him to a certain extent yesterday without the front facing camera but I don't see why they can't keep chasing that (I think they are) and if appropriate, penalise him for the next GP.

SKY were saying it was frustrating their live feed switched to the rear facing just at the crucial moment. So what? That doesn't mean you switched the cameras off, the film is still there?

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021...g-camera-not-available-in-hamilton-move-call/
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Horner has never made any attempts to hide the fact that he's a hypocrite. He literally said this when he was asked about his reaction had the roles been reversed yesterday. He said he would have had a moan about it, even if he believed Hamilton had done nothing wrong.
 
rpitroda said:
I just read that the 0.2mm breach on the rear wing was right in the corner on one side of the wing. If that’s true, I still understand that by the rules there should be a penalty. But it does make me question whether there should be some margin of error for checks post session. I am not an engineer but I would presume it’s plausible for damage to cause that kind of breach, especially if it’s just isolated to one tiny area of the wing?
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The rear wing was with FIA until today, so Mercedes engineers havent been hands on with it. Was it the side that max touched that was 0.2 off or the other side?

I find it very strange that the onboard footage still hasnt been released of max and lewis going off track. Hopefully it will come out before the next race otherwise it will just fuel conspiracy theories where there are none.
 
dinostar77 said:
Interesting as McLaren refused their approach a few weeks ago. McLaren-Audi works would be an interesting team.
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Yes... I guess in some ways there is (tenious) history as when mclaren were destroying everybody with a T.A.G. engine it was actually a porshe (now part of vw group with audi)

I wonder how keen merc are to fulfill their engine contract to audi... im guessing they are stuck with it?

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/m...es-again-from-2021-announced-4988153/4988153/

Till at least 2024 but probably until the new engine regs?
 
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sun_tzu said:
Yes... I guess in some ways there is (tenious) history as when mclaren were destroying everybody with a T.A.G. engine it was actually a porshe (now part of vw group with audi)

I wonder how keen merc are to fulfill their engine contract to audi... im guessing they are stuck with it?
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Volkswagen group will want Audi to run it's own engines, not sure when that would happen. Buyout had to happen before next season as there is a stupid clause from 2022-2026 where any new entrant to f1 has to pay each team £20mil to enter f1. Bizarre.

Will be interesting to see Daimler response to this in regards to the engines. Dont want to give audi any help whatsoever I guess getting up to speed.

Horner must be gutted, RB wanted Porsche or Audi to buy the honda engine factory from them. Not gonna happen now. Also Audi in F1 makes alot more sense than Porsche. Who as a brand dont synegise with F1.
 
dinostar77 said:
Volkswagen group will want Audi to run it's own engines, not sure when that would happen. Buyout had to happen before next season as there is a stupid clause from 2022-2026 where any new entrant to f1 has to pay each team £20mil to enter f1. Bizarre.

Will be interesting to see Daimler response to this in regards to the engines. Dont want to give audi any help whatsoever I guess getting up to speed.

Horner must be gutted, RB wanted Porsche or Audi to buy the honda engine factory from them. Not gonna happen now. Also Audi in F1 makes alot more sense than Porsche. Who as a brand dont synegise with F1.
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think they are stuck having to supply till the new engine rules come in in 2025 (provided Mclaren is kept as a going concern which im sure it will be) at which point VW will have their own under either audi or porsche (probably audi as you say)
but yeah not ideal for merc
 
dinostar77 said:
Volkswagen group will want Audi to run it's own engines, not sure when that would happen. Buyout had to happen before next season as there is a stupid clause from 2022-2026 where any new entrant to f1 has to pay each team £20mil to enter f1. Bizarre.

Will be interesting to see Daimler response to this in regards to the engines. Dont want to give audi any help whatsoever I guess getting up to speed.

Horner must be gutted, RB wanted Porsche or Audi to buy the honda engine factory from them. Not gonna happen now. Also Audi in F1 makes alot more sense than Porsche. Who as a brand dont synegise with F1.
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Is that right? So they're pulling up the drawbridge to new teams effectively.
 
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021...g-camera-not-available-in-hamilton-move-call/

Formula 1 Race Director Michael Masi affirmed that the decision was made without Verstappen’s forward-facing camera and conceded it was “potentially” a crucial piece of information but that “we didn’t have access to it.”
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What a circus this has become. Fly around 10 one billion dollar franchises to every inhabited continent on earth but the crucial footage... access denied.

I hope everyone connected to that feels ashamed of themselves. This is Trump level of delusional if they believe anyone buys this. Makes Max SPA points look all the more dodgy now.
 
Max is their crown jewel whether you like it or not, they wont punish him like what Schumi did years ago. Yes Lewis is their biggest name right now but i think their put their egg on Max's future and they will milking this season to the fullest.
Granted that Lewis is not like Senna, if Lewis has Senna's personality, he will grind Max like hell on and off the track.
 
vangagal said:
Max is their crown jewel whether you like it or not, they wont punish him like what Schumi did years ago. Yes Lewis is their biggest name right now but i think their put their egg on Max's future and they will milking this season to the fullest.
Granted that Lewis is not like Senna, if Lewis has Senna's personality, he will grind Max like hell on and off the track.
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They are ruining it if they think they can choose a winner only because other US "sports" tend to.
 
Abizzz said:
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021...g-camera-not-available-in-hamilton-move-call/



What a circus this has become. Fly around 10 one billion dollar franchises to every inhabited continent on earth but the crucial footage... access denied.

I hope everyone connected to that feels ashamed of themselves. This is Trump level of delusional if they believe anyone buys this. Makes Max SPA points look all the more dodgy now.
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Formula 1 Race Director Michael Masi affirmed that the decision was made without Verstappen’s forward-facing camera and conceded it was “potentially” a crucial piece of information but that “we didn’t have access to it.”

He outlined that “all the angles we don’t get live” will be obtained from Formula 1’s broadcast crew and “we’ll have a look at them.”
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Interesting - based on that the footage should come out at some point and presumably they will have to make a decision

not sure what the scope of any punishment could be though but I can see things becoming even more heated between red bull and merc as no doubt merc will push for some kind of penalty at the next GP and Red Bull look almost certain to try and complain about the merc wing that they seem convinced is flexing
 
sun_tzu said:
Interesting - based on that the footage should come out at some point and presumably they will have to make a decision

not sure what the scope of any punishment could be though but I can see things becoming even more heated between red bull and merc as no doubt merc will push for some kind of penalty at the next GP and Red Bull look almost certain to try and complain about the merc wing that they seem convinced is flexing
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Essentially what they are claiming is that they have the same information as everyone else watching on SKY does, which would make their presence at the track useless in itself, but even for the sake of the argument if that were true there's still no way one can see that as anything other than Max attempting to crash out the two of them. He didn't run wide. He wouldn't have been 3 track widths clear of the track from running wide on the dirty part. He tried to maintain his championship advantage.
 
Abizzz said:
Essentially what they are claiming is that they have the same information as everyone else watching on SKY does, which would make their presence at the track useless in itself, but even for the sake of the argument if that were true there's still no way one can see that as anything other than Max attempting to crash out the two of them. He didn't run wide. He wouldn't have been 3 track widths clear of the track from running wide on the dirty part. He tried to maintain his championship advantage.
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I believe that is true... though all the footage that is not broadcast is stored on the cameras and this is made available after the GP - I guess they are in the middle of moving from south amarica to the middle east right now but hopefully the footage does not magically get lost in the move.

From what I saw I was surprised he didnt get a 5 second penalty - not sure retrospectively what punishments are available - in some ways its lucky there was such a big run off area there that hamilton could go into because if there had been a gravel trap or worse still barriers it could have been far worse.

Looking forward to seeing the onboard if / when it emerges though
 
sun_tzu said:
I believe that is true... though all the footage that is not broadcast is stored on the cameras and this is made available after the GP - I guess they are in the middle of moving from south amarica to the middle east right now but hopefully the footage does not magically get lost in the move.

From what I saw I was surprised he didnt get a 5 second penalty - not sure retrospectively what punishments are available - in some ways its lucky there was such a big run off area there that hamilton could go into because if there had been a gravel trap or worse still barriers it could have been far worse.

Looking forward to seeing the onboard if / when it emerges though
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If the footage was stored on the cameras while not prod cast how would the director choose what camera to show or how do the replays of things we didn't see live work?
 
Yeah I’m not sold on this not having access to it. It seems shady to me. How the hell else do they have onboard cameras for TV purposes. I’m pretty sure every car has one which we frequently see throughout the race so what am I missing? It would be bizarre if you could only see it if they select it live or something. Doesn’t make sense
 
rpitroda said:
Yeah I’m not sold on this not having access to it. It seems shady to me. How the hell else do they have onboard cameras for TV purposes. I’m pretty sure every car has one which we frequently see throughout the race so what am I missing? It would be bizarre if you could only see it if they select it live or something. Doesn’t make sense
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Coulthard was certain they had it during the commentary too and made a point of saying the stewards have all camera angles available to them at any time to review footage. It seems odd if they have to wait, but have to make penalty decisions from incomplete footage.
 
Also I’m amazed there is a race this coming weekend. Can understand back to backs when distance is small but this is like the other side of the world? And with time difference it’s actually even less than the normal right because Qatar is several hours ahead.
 
Abizzz said:
They are ruining it if they think they can choose a winner only because other US "sports" tend to.
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They not choose it per se but they will let play it out untill Dubai if they can, thats entertaining value will skyrocket for them even it means bending some rules for some drivers. This close battle all season has been entertaing, no way they gonna let it end right now.

I agree the way stewards handle this matter has been abysmal to say the least. I am all for hard driving but the rule is the limit, you should punish those who break them regardless who they are. And the excuse not having access to the footage? :lol: :wenger:
 
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