Agreed.the point isn't that he had "nowhere to go" when rejoining, but that he lost control and cut the corner before that point.
F1 2019 season
- Thread starter Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87
- Start date
Seems most former drivers, and a lot of current driver's think the pen is ridiculous.
Just seen it 
anyone saying that isn't a racing incident is mental.
Vettel can't do anything else? Unless you want him to go into a wall?
anyone saying that isn't a racing incident is mental.Vettel can't do anything else? Unless you want him to go into a wall?
Perfectly understandable and that was my view as well which was why I asked the question.
OK. So you don't like Hamilton and of course you are perfectly entitled to have that view.
However, I would be surprised if you didn't agree that he is a fantastically talented racing driver and one of the best ever.
I actually like him as a person and obviously as a driver.
To me his most important attribute is that he is absolutely relentless, rarely gives up and fully deserves his position at Mercedes-Benz as a five times world champion.
If stupid people want to boo him for being the victim then let them. All that will do is make Hamilton even more determined and he will push Mercedes-Benz to produce an even quicker car.
Undoubtedly he is one of the all-time best. He is absolutely a winning machine and his pedigree cannot be doubted.
I don't dislike him either as I don't know how he is in person but his constant whining on the radio gets to me. Plus he really is great at acting like the moral champion when he gets the rub of the green. That is what really irks me.
Another big error from Seb under pressure.
Either we just hear more of the Lewis to his team radio or Lewis just talks more than most others. I believe the latter.
Yes. When things are not going well he does have a habit of moaning.
But he says that he needs to do this to keep himself focused and to let off steam.
He is very clever at getting the whole team behind him and I read that he spends a great deal of time at the factory talking with the people who build and repair his car.
Both Totto Wolf and Nikki Lauda said that he is one of the main driving forces behind their success because he is always challenging them to push harder and they know that he will get them the results to justify their efforts.
All I know is that we will miss him terribly when he is no longer driving.
My thoughts are with Santi at this time
I'm probably showing my naivety, as I'm not really a fan of the sport, but if you don't punish Vettel in some way isn't it unfair on Hamilton in that situation? After all Vettel made a mistake and Hamilton didn't, with the latter about to take advantage (and the lead) before instead having to slam on the brakes to avoid a collision.
I agree 100% that the dangerous driving ruling is incredibly harsh and that there was no intent etc. but ultimately Vettel stayed ahead of Hamilton after making a mistake which should really have cost him the place.
For me it's the penalty itself that is harsh, as it effectively ends the race. I think it would be fairer if the punishment was for Vettel to let Hamilton pass then the pair to race it out in the remaining laps. I don't really know what the etiquette/culture is in racing though, or what the fans want.
I agree 100% that the dangerous driving ruling is incredibly harsh and that there was no intent etc. but ultimately Vettel stayed ahead of Hamilton after making a mistake which should really have cost him the place.
For me it's the penalty itself that is harsh, as it effectively ends the race. I think it would be fairer if the punishment was for Vettel to let Hamilton pass then the pair to race it out in the remaining laps. I don't really know what the etiquette/culture is in racing though, or what the fans want.
Victim
I think you will be right, he will get it even at Silverstone , he is not well liked.
If Vettel had let Lewis past before the decision was made there wouldn't have been a penalty. It happens all the time. If you go off the track and come back on gaining an advantage you either let the other driver through or you get penalised.
Anyone who doesn't recon that Vettel gained an advantage by forcing Hamilton to break is deluding themselves.
This incident is the most interesting to happen to the sport in years. Shocking how dull its become.
This is what I don't get about the whole debate, it's clear Vettel made a mistake and then he either lost control (as he says) as he rejoined the track or he moved across the racing line forcing Hamilton to brake - surely either is a penalty so it doesn't really matter where allegiances lie or if you agree, it's simply the rules?
His antics post race are more diversionary for me anyway - he wasn't even under huge pressure when it happened
Will Buxton had a great comment on twitter with the picture showing Hamilton was all 4 wheels of the track, so had he made an overtake, he would have to give the place back, or the track is as big as a Mercedes driver needs it to be?
Also for all Hamilton fanboys, here's what he got away with in 2016.
FIA used to be short for Ferrari International Assistance, but last few years Mercedes has them by the balls.
Also for all Hamilton fanboys, here's what he got away with in 2016.
FIA used to be short for Ferrari International Assistance, but last few years Mercedes has them by the balls.
Is the season over yet?
It's really not the same, the differences being that Riccardio has room to pass Hamilton initially (doesn't have to slam on the brakes like Hamilton did), albeit on a wet line. Hamilton didn't re-enter the track unsafely, nor go straight into the path of Ricciardo (plenty of onboards showing he kept his wheel straight, and onto the dry racing line). The difference is that Riccardio, when the gap appears, has to back off due to him being not in control of the car (oversteer central), not because a gap doesn't exist - the video below gives a better and more balanced view of the narrative.
And something that a lot of people are forgetting/omiting on purpose. If Vettel doesnt crack under pressure yet again then this isnt an issue.
How the feck can he rejoin safely, when the cars on fecking grass. You cant just pull a f1 car up on grass likes a fecking rally car... its on slick fecking tyres. feck me the stupidity of all this is mind boggling. This is as bad as the Schumahcer bullshit in 2010 when he made Alonso to look like a fecking clown at the restart to Monaco yet he gets penalised for having half a brain.
He shouldn't have been in the grass in the first place!
...and this is the real major point in all honesty, it's a smoke and mirror job from Vettel at the end being a bit of a pantomime victim. Interesting fact is that he was the only driver in the entire race to cut that chicane.
You have to laugh at the experts here who clearly have access to the telemetry of the cars to make the call that Vettel had no other choice but to follow the path that he did, when the stewards who interpreted the data, made the call that Vettel had another choice to make with this move.
You mean some of us that have actually driven a car or motorbike at a reasonable level and understand the actual characteristics of how a car handles or reacts over fecking grass. feck, get on a simulator and tell me you'd have done what Seb did any differently. I dont need anybody on this forum lecturing me how a vehicle operates. In fact, I dont even need a steward who probably has an even less understanding than me to make that decision when I know he's wrong.
If only you could read as well as you conceitedly boast. The article you question clearly provided a very direct argument for your challenge, whether Vettel could control the car when on grass is irrelevant to whether it was a penalty.
Both are the results of driver mistakes. I'm still struggling with the concept of: he should escape punishment because he lost control of his car through his own fault.
Look. It is really simple.
Vettel was on the grass because he had made a mistake.
His mistake was going far too fast at that point and not being able to control the car.
Having gone off the track it is up to him to rejoin the track safety and not as he did to endanger another driver.
For someone who frequently makes mistakes, he should know the rules by now.
Exactly that. It could not be any clearer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuele_Pirro
Other than the first 45 seconds I reckon I agree with this opinion:
Summary: Decision was correct as per the rules, but the rules are shite.
The large majority who think it should have been a penalty are Hamilton/ Mercedes fans and the English media.
The large majority of professional/ ex professional drivers clearly thought it was a racing incident.
F1 has became a borefest, and the inconsistency of the stewards does not help.
Canada is normally a good race, but aside from the "incident" it was another bore.
Oh, and snowflakes getting upset because of some sections of the crowd booing Hamilton. Its sport, it happens in all sport, its panto.
The day we are expected to sit and applaud politely is the day to close the door and put the lights out.
The large majority of professional/ ex professional drivers clearly thought it was a racing incident.
F1 has became a borefest, and the inconsistency of the stewards does not help.
Canada is normally a good race, but aside from the "incident" it was another bore.
Oh, and snowflakes getting upset because of some sections of the crowd booing Hamilton. Its sport, it happens in all sport, its panto.
The day we are expected to sit and applaud politely is the day to close the door and put the lights out.
Yet Daniel Riccardo came out and said both incidents are identical..
What a thoroughly stupid thing to say.
It has absolutely nothing to do with whether you are English or fans of Hamilton or his team.
It has everything to do with implementation of the rules of the sport.
The only reason there wasn't a serious accident was down to Lewis Hamilton being able to control his car while Vettel was yet again unable to control his.
It is about time that people stuck to the facts and not let their emotions get in the way of reason.
I could hear the keys being hammered here as i read that reply. Reasonable level of driving? You obviously weren't that good if you know how a car handles on grass as most racers tend to stick to the tarmac.
I think i'll trust the judgement of the steward Emanuele Pirro, who has started 37 F1 races, and has won Le Mans five times over the internet 'grass experts'. No offence.
Of course he would, why wouldn't he?
Bit of a tired rhetoric that. Sky, who fit firmly in a pro-Hamilton, Mercedes camp, and arguably the biggest media house on F1 in the UK, were unequivocally in favour of Vettel.
Which probably suggests that the penalty was in fact BS
I would take the media's view, certainly Sky's, normally with a pinch of salt, they're there for the show not necessarily the rulebook.
There needs to be more leniency imo.
There is an obsession in current F1 with penalizing every little mistake and every racing incident. It's one of the reasons why the sport is dying.