This makes me think that Britain should not be leaving Europe. We need to stand together.
Explosions reported at Brussels airport.
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
- Start date
Image taken from [CCTV of the three suspected attackers at the airport:
There was also a suitcase bomb used apparently.
There was also a suitcase bomb used apparently.
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I've never looked at it as infiltration. Many people we consider extremists are born and raised here. They may even be 3rd or 4th generation Belgian citizens. I'm 29 years old, what right would I have to consider people who may even have been Belgian citizens since before I was born infiltrants? The vast majority of them obviously want to lead a life in peace here. We cannot forget that and get caught up in a narrative of "us vs them".
The first line of defence and most effective are the 'good' muslims.
This is beyond ridiculous. It is not the only option at all, it's not even an option.
But your average Muslim wouldn't blow themselves up either because that's straight up suicide, so no, they don't know about the religion.
Yeah. It was shocking when it happened back then and they announced that one of the people involved was a doctor. What ever happened to, 'First Do No Harm?'
Make Matherto Drumpf again. Aye feeling loads better thanks.
I don't mean infiltration in the general sense that these people migrated there, I meant infiltration more or less in terms of radical ideology and how it is spreading to people who have been born into a good situation in Europe.
So my dad was at the airport when the explosions happened. He actually heard it and wasn't far from it. He's been evacuated and has now checked in a hotel. Been in touch with him and he seems fine (he is an ex army officer so guess that counts for something). Feels fecking weird when a family member is within an attack radius.
Have seen a bit of the discussions happening in this thread. Someone advocating making Middle East a total wasteland seems extremely stupid. Muslims account for over a billion people. Are all of them bad? I am an atheist and despise every religion. What Islam needs is modernity. Go back 500 years, every other religion would be in the same situation where Islam with its radicalization is operating now. The moderates within the Muslim community have to stand up and speak up against these bloody rabble rousers. Keeping mum will not help.
Have seen a bit of the discussions happening in this thread. Someone advocating making Middle East a total wasteland seems extremely stupid. Muslims account for over a billion people. Are all of them bad? I am an atheist and despise every religion. What Islam needs is modernity. Go back 500 years, every other religion would be in the same situation where Islam with its radicalization is operating now. The moderates within the Muslim community have to stand up and speak up against these bloody rabble rousers. Keeping mum will not help.
Why are you so bothered about their education levels?
Universities across the world are full of students with fervent passions for their ideals, they have long been a breeding grounds for radical ideological movements of all types.
feck mate. Glad your dad is safe.
True, because for all that we ask our intelligence agencies to do, they still will quite often actually need someone to come forward with information in order to either know that something is up or to know there are some folks they should look at. It won't all be random intercepted emails, tapped phone lines, watching social media,etc.
Though this is probably only part of what you meant.
Home grown Christians?
Well that's why I originally said for this to work and for us to be free from our definition of terrorism we need to kill anyone who could be reasonably radicalised in the first place. So aside from nuking the middle east (and that sounds so simple) you'd also have to kill all the splinter cells in Africa, Asia, Europe and America plus anyone who follows the same values but in a more moderate manner (i.e. innocent Muslims if we're targeting Muslim terrorists who would almost certainly turn radical if such a thing were to happen).
I didn't say it was a good or a moral way of doing things, just that to stop terrorism you basically need to think like a terrorist. Dehumanise everyone and kill the ones that don't agree with our way of life. To them, we're the terrorists and they wouldn't think twice about killing us.
All it really highlights is that it's a thankless task for the intelligence services and the governments in charge of our societies because we're constantly under threat.
We will end up in an Orwellian dystopian society of surveillance where thought is prohibited just to make sure no attacks like this happen in the future. But even that will fall apart because there'll always be a resistance. We're humans and we like to argue. Arguments lead to fights, fights lead to wars, wars lead to oblivion.
thanks man
One thing in common , their religion. and homegrown is the easy label, they aren't French or Brits or American they are nothing but Islamists.
Glad you weren't knocking about in Northern Ireland back in the day, you'd have incinerated the entire island by now.
Like you say, it happens in every country in Europe, although I do think we share the blame for that. Our policy towards the immigration in Molenbeek has been way too soft, we left the situation untouched for too long and a lot of (young) people felt alienated from our lifestyle, way of thinking, western values and whatnot. They feel like they're never going to fit in, that they're never going to get a proper job because of their names, stuff like that. They create a very dangerous 'us vs them' mentaility and start to look for happiness in radicalization. It happens across all layers of society but when you've got so many people living together like in Molenbeek who fit the profile and are easily influenced, it's not really surprising. It's sad, of course, but I think a lot of those problems could have been avoided if we intervened earlier. Not that I know what solutions we might have come up with, mind you.
They *are* French, Brits or Americans though, that's part of the problem. Ignoring that would lead to a rather less subtle and accurate view of the situation.
Plenty of Muslims in Europe, Asia, Australisia, Africa, North America & South America too though, so they'll all have to be next in line for a nuking to be sure... Antarctica should be good though, we can live there
Nuking the Middle East would mean destroying Israel also. They are nuclear armed and would defend themselves accordingly.
Exactly what I thought.
Good to hear your Dad is okay.
If you had read my posts, you'd know why I'm pointing this out. Whenever a terror attack has been carried out by home-grown terrorists, politicians, media et al come up with the 'solution' that education is the answer to prevent these cases. My point is it isn't. At least not for everyone.
I agree completely. Here in the UK it's mainly 2nd or 3rd generation Muslims who get redicalised. They are British Born and Bred and taught to hate by sliver tonged men who would never go near a suicide bomb themselves.
Eh? Surely the reason these attacks are happening, the reason people join the likes of ISIS, is a direct consequence of bombing various parts of the Middle East for the past decade or more. Your 'ONLY' solution is exactly what ISIS want to happen: they can build a recruitment drive around it. The best solution would be to steer well clear and not make ourselves targets by continually doing what you are advocating - that strategy has been shown to be totally ineffective since 911, and before that even.
Plenty of Muslims in Europe, Asia, Australisia, Africa, North America & South America too though, so they'll all have to be next in line for a nuking to be sure... Antarctica should be good though, we can live there
Cut to Muslims melting ice caps and training suicide penguins. No Antarctica for you buddy.
No they were born in country but are not citizens of anywhere. They do not become part of the French life or the British world or American lifestyle. So being born in a place doesn't make you part of it. It makes you part of it if you participate in the life. Goodbye Europa.
Damn it, we colonised Mars yet?
Pff, as if ye'd be allowed near the spaceships.
They can't build a recruitment strategy around if there's noone left to either direct that recruitment drive or join up though can they?
ISIS is a direct consequence of us not doing our job properly but our job being done properly to protect our way of life means crossing a line that hasn't really been done by anyone since 1945 and nobody wants that (despite all my arguments in this thread I wouldn't sanction killing off an entire group of people, especially not on the basis that some of them are terrorists) so we'll always be at risk of terrorist attacks. I merely suggested that to fully get rid of the threat from Islamic terrorists, that's how far we'd have to go.
We can't steer well clear and leave them to it because they don't want to co-exist with us. They aren't simply pissed off at us for past attempts at us trying to run the world, they want to establish their world view in the same way as we try. They want the world to be an Islamic State and they'll die trying. The Caliphate has to continuously advance and expand and basically always be at war otherwise it fails in it's objective, which is world domination.
Exactly. Such a ridiculous suggestion. I mean, there are 50m Muslims in Europe alone.Plenty of Muslims in Europe, Asia, Australisia, Africa, North America & South America too though, so they'll all have to be next in line for a nuking to be sure... Antarctica should be good though, we can live there
Concentration camps next? That's the line of thinking some in this thread are going down.
I'm not a big fan of concentration camps, but I hope they would be used before nuclear weapons.
How the hell is that supposed to work? Do we just start rounding up anyone with a beard, or who goes Mosque or wishes you a happy Eid and put them to firing squads? Who is someone that could be reasonably radicalised? What about extremist white converts who used to be binge-drinking football hooligans?
And you can't stop terrorism with terrorism. The war in Afghanistan has been a resounding failure and if anything the Taliban have come out stronger. Intervention in Iraq and Libya has only played into the hands of extremists. What you're proposing (besides being morally batshit) would exacerbate the problem tenfold.
Has matherto suggested a wall yet?
Ignore it , it will just go away. Peace will naturally occur in Europe.
Are you deliberately invoking the spirit of Chamberlain?
Seems ISIS are claiming responsibility
I don't buy the "steer clear" argument - they would find some other pretext. It's a consequence of bombing the Middle East but only insofar as it led to the collapse of state authority in Iraq and, many years later, Syria and Libya. This gave various pondlife in Europe the opportunity to train as terrorists over there. It has to be a dual track solution - helping to rebuild those states into something viable (with new boundaries) and greater efforts at home to combat extremism, based on increased integration (no more "faith" schools) and a bigger budget for the intelligence services.