European Super League

[mazhar13]

Juve too. It's for different reasons. City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal aren't in a bad financial state at all. It's just greed from the owners. Or at least from United/Liverpool/Arsenal. Chelsea and City are probably just in by FOMO, as their owners never really looked to be in it to make money or worried about money, but just to win everything and get famous. Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus are in a financial crisis due to mismanagement, and are looking at this as their chance to save themselves without changing their models, rather than change their models to be actual decent, sustainable business models. No idea with Milan or Inter, they're probably just happy to be invited and because they needed some other Italian teams.

feck knows how and why Spurs were involved, also not quite sure on their financials but they did just build this fancy new stadium.

To add some clarity on Inter and AC Milan's situations, Inter may be financially stable, but they aren't earning lots of cash like their bigger counterparts outside of Italy. They've spent lots of money last summer in order to challenge for trophies, but this has meant that they're struggling to save up some cash. The SL allows them a huge injection of instant cash to be able to spend more and grow bigger as a result. Inter's owners, Suning, were even looking for new investors since a few months ago in order to finance the club's growth.

AC Milan are owned by Elliot Management, who are as vile as they come with regards to making money. They'll obviously be all for the SL as it gives them massive short-term benefits. It'll also allow them to sell the club at a much higher value if they are ever compelled to spend more money to grow the club.

Spurs are most likely involved because of their massive debts due to the new stadium and the opportunity costs due to the pandemic. They missed out on making money by hosting NFL matches and other events at their new stadium. The SL would massively help them in addressing their debt as well as allowing them to spend way more than they currently do.

 

[stevoc]

A number of very rich people have expressed a lot of interest in buying the club previously. Roman wouldn't gain a lot by walking away with a team under a new name, if someone else could just come in and restart the actual Chelsea FC at the Bridge.

Last I checked Chelsea are worth over $2b. Roman isn't going to throw away a large part of that value for no good reason, in that scenario he'd be considerably better off just selling it and starting something totally fresh.

I hear you sure they'd have the name and stadium but they'd effectively be starting from scratch with no players and no league place.

You would know better than me but I doubt it plays out like that. Chelsea have the statement about their intention to join the SL on their site, they obviously don't envisage many problems going forward with it.

 

[Slops]

Shorter games? Please tell me that one's a wind-up

Anyone remember the old (I think) Budweiser ad with half time monster truck shows and added time multi-ball?

 

[Klopper76]

Well we've been in the CL 2 out of the last 3 years. Plus the Europa isn't that bad, you'll love it next year if Liverpool qualify.

I’d take Europa League over this Super League BS.

 

[redrobed]

I’m so confused by Tottenham’s inclusion. You’ve got the new money in chelsea and City. I get it. You’ve got the 3 biggest teams in English history in ourselves, Liverpool and Arsenal. What are Tottenham doing there? Might as well get Wolves or West Ham.

 

[Rojow]

Shorter games was just a thing he mentioned. Nothing serious. He was speaking about how the new generations react to boring games instead of the big ones. And it's true, sadly.

 

[Kentonio]

I hear you sure they'd have the name and stadium but they'd effectively be starting from scratch with no players and no league place.

You would know better than me but I doubt it plays out like that. Chelsea have the statement about their intention to join the SL on their site, they obviously don't envisage many problems going forward with it.

Dunno, feels like there's an enormous game of chicken going on right now. Those leaked reports about this being something that pushed to a conclusion very quickly make it seem like the clubs didn't all have their ducks lined up perfectly in a row. Maybe its just me being optimistic, but I think this is far from a done deal.

 

[smi11ie]

Would not be adverse to the champions league changing and becoming a league instead of a knockout competition. The idea that these big clubs think they can decide to change the format of football is gobsmacking though. I hope they get absolutely shafted including getting booted out of all competitions. They maybe should be relegated to the lowest division in the league system aswell.

 

[CasaStreets]

More than any other club I am surprised that City have gone along with this. City are essentially a UAE state-owned enterprise, people associate their actions directly with the global image of the UAE. Along with Emirates and Etihad, Man City is probably the most important and visible symbol of their country overseas.

This is a public relations and potentially diplomatic nightmare for them if the British government decides to start taking action. On the other hand, it could be quite a PR coup now if they lead an exodus of 2-3 clubs out of the ESL and bring the whole thing down. I would be unsurprised if Khaldoon Al Mubarak is already seeing the opportunity here.

Fascinating stuff...

 

[stevoc]

I’d take Europa League over this Super League BS.

Me too mate, sadly I think it's happening. For all the grief it gets the Europa is a good competition.

 

[Mr. Ant]

Based on what Perez said I really think he just wants to scare off uefa. His quotes doesn't make a sense. He was just saying random stuff imo.

If this is the grand plan for a new revolutionary competition he couldn't have done worse in that interview.
No clear plan. Maybe there will a second division? Shorter matches? Who does he think he is? He's not even the owner of the club.

 

[el3mel]

More than any other club I am surprised that City have gone along with this. City are essentially a UAE state-owned enterprise, people associate their actions directly with the global image of the UAE. Along with Emirates and Etihad, Man City is probably the important symbol of their country overseas.

This is a public relations and potentially diplomatic nightmare for them if the British government decides to start taking action. On the other hand, it could be quite a PR coup now if they lead an exodus of 2-3 clubs out of the ESL and bring the whole thing down. I would be unsurprised if Khaldoon Al Mubarak is already seeing the opportunity here.

Fascinating stuff...

Most reports said that they reluctantly joined just because they were told they would be left behind, not that they actually wanted to join. They indeed have no reason to be in this at all.

 

[stevoc]

Dunno, feels like there's an enormous game of chicken going on right now. Those leaked reports about this being something that pushed to a conclusion very quickly make it seem like the clubs didn't all have their ducks lined up perfectly in a row. Maybe its just me being optimistic, but I think this is far from a done deal.

From those tweets I interpreted it as City and Chelsea didn't want to go public with it so soon. But if they're this far in then they've been talking about it for years, I've no doubt both clubs want it. Or at least don't want to not be in it.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Shorter games? Please tell me that one's a wind-up

Anyone remember the old (I think) Budweiser ad with half time monster truck shows and added time multi-ball?

Monster truck 5 a-side

 

[sglowrider]

Arsenal and Spurs

Arsenal are having second thought about being the whipping boys of ESL and Spurs are still confused why they are being pulled into this

The two clubs have the most to gain in terms of instant access to major money when they have not had much of any European pedigree.
Besides, these two clubs were the founding breakaway clubs that formed the PL>

 

[gorky_utd]

What really worries me about all of this is that it feels like we are all United in despising the plans, but I have no idea of the demographic of this forum, or blue moon, or RAWK or Twitter even but I imagine it's all 'legacy fans'. What is the opinion of fans from Asia, USA, rest of the world that the proposals are clearly targeting?

If in favour then all that we will fight for will mean nothing. Manchester United will be nothing more than a brand name

I am from India. In my opinion, there are two types of fans here. The first type, like me, would remain awake at 3am to watch Utd play in carabao cup. We are genuinely disgusted by this proposed American way of football which ends free and fair competition. But there are a lot of people here who would only watch football when they have heard Messi or Ronaldo is playing tonight or a so called big game in UCL is on tv. I think ESL would be hugely popular among these casual viewers.

 

[Redplane]

Shorter games? Please tell me that one's a wind-up

Anyone remember the old (I think) Budweiser ad with half time monster truck shows and added time multi-ball?

Translation: shorter games so we can sneak in more commercials/advertising like we can in the NBA/NFL/NHL/MLB

 

[Scholsey2004]

At the end of the day, it's football, not a primary sector. That'd be the silliest move of all time.

They've already let the foreign owners in.

Yeah, but as the government they do ultimately have the power to actually do things, even if the inclination is typically lacking. From a political standpoint the unpopularity of this makes it a good way to score points with the public. Obciously theres a lot you can do short of nationlisation as well, again, if the inclination is there.

 

[sglowrider]

I am from India. In my opinion, there are two types of fans here. The first type, like me, would remain awake at 3am to watch Utd play in carabao cup. We are genuinely disgusted by this proposed American way of football which ends free and fair competition. But there are a lot of people here who would only watch football when they have heard Messi or Ronaldo is playing tonight or a so called big game in UCL is on tv. I think ESL would be hugely popular among these casual viewers.

You just have to look at the IPL and how successful its been and I am sure it inspired the Big 12 to look at competition differently.

 

[Scholsey2004]

I am from India. In my opinion, there are two types of fans here. The first type, like me, would remain awake at 3am to watch Utd play in carabao cup. We are genuinely disgusted by this proposed American way of football which ends free and fair competition. But there are a lot of people here who would only watch football when they have heard Messi or Ronaldo is playing tonight or a so called big game in UCL is on tv. I think ESL would be hugely popular among these casual viewers.

Casual viewers are a weak foundation though. Its what killed the soccer leagues in the US back in the 70's that was propped up by famous former greats like Pele and Beckenbauer playing with complete amateurs without much in the way of domestic development. The novelty wears off and the casual watcher watches something else.

 

[Sir Matt]

City & Chelsea? They were rumoured to be the 2 who didn’t really want to join but felt like they had to.

If it's true, they would be my guess. The owners of the other clubs would've used the "join or be left behind" leverage to push them to join, which is no doubt what they tried to do with Bayern, Dortmund, and PSG. The longer they are left dangling in the wind with 12 teams instead of 15 the more likely one of those two pulls back from the brink. There's no risk of being "left behind" if the ESL can't get to 15 permanent members.

There's no way that United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, the Spanish clubs, or the Italian clubs will bail first. Based on losses from last season, United are in by far the best position financially of the 12, but the Glazers are drivers of this scheme.

 

[Klopper76]

Me too mate, sadly I think it's happening. For all the grief it gets the Europa is a good competition.

It is once you’re in the latter stages. Our quarter final with Dortmund at Anfield is one of my favourite memories under Klopp.

Also gives a good excuse for fans to go to random places they wouldn’t normally go.

 

[Scholsey2004]

If it's true, they would be my guess. The owners of the other clubs would've used the "join or be left behind" leverage to push them to join, which is no doubt what they tried to do with Bayern, Dortmund, and PSG. The longer they are left dangling in the wind with 12 teams instead of 15 the more likely one of those two pulls back from the brink. There's no risk of being "left behind" if the ESL can't get to 15 permanent members.

There's no way that United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, the Spanish clubs, or the Italian clubs will bail first. Based on losses from last season, United are in by far the best position financially of the 12, but the Glazers are drivers of this scheme.

It certainly seems like their paricular brand of contempt for anything but personal gain.

 

[Sir Matt]

It certainly seems like their paricular brand of contempt for anything but personal gain.

Indeed. What else would we expect from the scumbags who bought United with other people's money and placing all the risk on the club, not themselves? Guaranteeing increasing returns without having to worry about their mismanagement impacting finances is heaven for them.

 

[Barnslig]

Getting to this a bit late, and really can't be arsed reading through 220 pages. Can anyone bring me up to speed? I've seen a few comments in here saying governments will have to strike down, and it's anti-competitive etc.

What interest would the FA have in punishing say United for playing in the Super League instead of the CL/EL? Also, how is adding more competition (its currently a monopoly, no?) anti-competetive?

 

[Cloud7]

Casual viewers are a weak foundation though. Its what killed the soccer leagues in the US back in the 70's that was propped up by famous former greats like Pele and Beckenbauer playing with complete amateurs without much in the way of domestic development. The novelty wears off and the casual watcher watches something else.

Contrary to what they say, I genuinely think a lot of these owners only think about the short term profits, banking as much as they can, and if it collapses in the future, they just sell off and go, or leave the institutions to rot, with the clubs really being the ones that suffer, not them.

 

[Suedesi]

This is basically killing football. It kills the domestic competition because even if the six want to participate in the Premier League, what's the point if the places are already assigned? This is a philosophical difference between football as a sport vs football as finance.

 

[Antisocial]

Let's hope it's us. Bloody parasite imposters. Destroying everything we love. 100 years of culture gone. Parasites.

If the whole thing falls apart, then I fully expect us to the last English side to give-up on it - us or Arsenal anyway. I wouldn't be all that surprised if Liverpool fold relatively quickly like with the furlough stuff.

 

[ti vu]

Casual viewers are a weak foundation though. Its what killed the soccer leagues in the US back in the 70's that was propped up by famous former greats like Pele and Beckenbauer playing with complete amateurs without much in the way of domestic development. The novelty wears off and the casual watcher watches something else.

Thing changed drastically, especially with technology. Now they can get in your face with all kind of ad.

Pele and Beckenbauer may be the biggest name in world football, but they are no celebrities the way thing looks today. They failed to sell soccer to the Americans back then is understandable. Nowadays, there are celebrity footballers that draw more crowd than their on the pitch performance. Adding to that with today celebrity culture, they would use celebrity of different fields to help push this new league. Then you add video game, social media... We're talking about players in their prime here, not Pele and his exhibition games against pub level opposition, or over the hill Beckenbauer.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

If the whole thing falls apart, then I fully expect us to the last English side to give-up on it - us or Arsenal anyway. I wouldn't be all that surprised if Liverpool fold relatively quickly like with the furlough stuff.

I know. Bloody Glazer. The vice chairman of the super league. Bastards.

 

[bond19821982]

I am from India. In my opinion, there are two types of fans here. The first type, like me, would remain awake at 3am to watch Utd play in carabao cup. We are genuinely disgusted by this proposed American way of football which ends free and fair competition. But there are a lot of people here who would only watch football when they have heard Messi or Ronaldo is playing tonight or a so called big game in UCL is on tv. I think ESL would be hugely popular among these casual viewers.

If United is playing Liverpool at Kolkata or Kerala , don't tell me you won't attend it. This is a golden opportunity for so many global fans to see their teams play a competitive game and that's exactly the driving factor here. I doubt people outside of UK care about such things in general especially when clubs has made it clear that they want to be part of domestic tournaments. Basically they will still respect the history and tradition of the local or legacy fans but will also go global to maximize the revenue potential.

 

[Ole's screen]

Contrary to what they say, I genuinely think a lot of these owners only think about the short term profits, banking as much as they can, and if it collapses in the future, they just sell off and go, or leave the institutions to rot, with the clubs really being the ones that suffer, not them.

That would be the ultimate self own in my opinion. I hope the Glazers are smart enough to understand that owning and running this club even semi-competently will ensure none of their descendants ever have to work a day in their life to feed themselves.

 

[Antisocial]

I know. Bloody Glazer. The vice chairman of the super league. Bastards.

I actually forgot about that, there's been so much shit news with all this

 

[Gator Nate]

To fix the problem you also have to understand this problem. For the drivers of the ESL this is as much about the failure of FFP as anything else. The ESL will have a salary cap and maybe a transfer cap. If UEFA had enforced their own rules this wouldn’t be happening. You are inevitably part of the situation you face.

I am disgusted by this whole debacle, but we need to fix what is broken for us to defeat this ludicrous proposition.

This is one of my thoughts, but then I realized that this is how they get around FFP but control each other. That said...

I assume it's greed from the US owners of Utd, Liverpool, and Arsenal; desperation from Juve, Inter, Milan, Real and Barca; Chelsea and City deciding they're better off part of the gang than stuck outside; and Spurs being delighted someone invited them to the party

This is probably closest to the truth. However, I cannot understand why the American-owned teams would marry themselves to the Italian and Spanish teams, who are all on the brink of financial ruin due primarily to poor management. I don't think this thing can last because half the teams will drag the other half over the cliff with them.

The thing that gets me the most is how it almost, but not quite, makes UEFA look like the good guy.

But FIFA won't stand for player bans, because it harms their product, and UEFA cannot afford to ban anyone from the remainder of the CL or EL tournaments because they need the money from the games too badly. They'll be in breach with their television partners if they suddenly start cancelling semis and/or finals.

 

[Striker10]

That would be the ultimate self own in my opinion. I hope the Glazers are smart enough to understand that owning and running this club even semi-competently will ensure none of their descendants ever have to work a day in their life to feed themselves.

They hate the supporters more then they would even think to love anyone but themselves.
____
We can blame mega rich money distorting the market but these same people are invited to take part which shows it created an excuse in one sense but they are not normal where it counts. They have already pushed away loyal supporters and rebranded them. To me that is sick. So its not ab being smart I think. They are sly

 

[Cast5]

The 67 people who’ve voted that they’re in favour of this are a disgrace and have no interest in football, casual fair weather fans who have no idea what the games about or what it means to people. The people who are “waiting for more information” are just as bad. The information that’s already came out is enough to be disgusted at the greed of these yank owners ruining our game. How can you even call yourselves football fans let alone United fans? Jokers.

 

[RedTiger]

Barca won't. Barca need this financially because they are a horribly run business. It's Barca, Madrid, Juve and the American owned English clubs (more so United and Liverpool) who are responsible.

AC Milan are owned by an American investment group.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The 67 people who’ve voted that they’re in favour of this are a disgrace and have no interest in football, casual fair weather fans who have no idea what the games about or what it means to people. The people who are “waiting for more information” are just as bad. The information that’s already came out is enough to be disgusted at the greed of these yank owners ruining our game. How can you even call yourselves football fans let alone United fans? Jokers.

Calm down with the outrage. People are allowed to have different views. Even Rooney said he wants to see full information and has given football more than most.

 

[Cast5]

Calm down with the outrage. People are allowed to have different views.

You’re right I am allowed to have different views.

 

[mariachi-19]

Good luck with banning, Real, Barca and United and their players... you’d just turned the CL into a glorified Europa league.

Anyway not of this is going to happen. This is just big clubs flexing on uefa that they do not need them and never have so they better pony up $$

United and Arsenal alone have carried Europa so they should receive shit loads more in money for just being in the competition.