Independent Poll done by ORB.
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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Independent Poll done by ORB.
Typical, just as I start to think I am going to vote remain the polls move to Brexit, I swear the world hates me.
To be fair, the drop in the ocean comment was in comparison to our NHS comment. I think the narrative of it was 'if you really think the savings are significant then how significant do you think it will be to lose 4x that amount' etc. It's not the leave side saying it's an insignificant figure, they're harping like Christmas will come early financially when actually it is estimated to be much worse than if we stayed. Those of us who think it's worth it consider the money to be insignificant sure and for us there are other important reasons to defer to rather than looking at it from the cost perspective, but the ones wanting to leave class that £8bn as very, very significant which is why it's important for them to understand that 4x that is much much worse.
Independent have been forecasting Brexit since day one. I'm very sceptical of the methodology of that poll.
The £22bn is efficiencies though, the NHS is chr
I thought the £22bn is efficiencies, so come from how you spend the money rather than the amount of money being spent?
My understanding is that the NHS was £30bn over budget so even with 'efficiency savings' its would be spending £22bn less on something that they're currently spending £22bn. Maybe there is £22bn of waste in the NHS that can be cut without impacting the quality of service, but its not going to be re-invested elsewhere in the NHS.
May be wrong.
Indeed
Why is the nhs 30b over budget?
Probably nurses and.doctors salaries right?
Or maybe badly run with too much money being spent on bad decisions and crap management
Probably nurses and.doctors salaries right?
Or maybe badly run with too much money being spent on bad decisions and crap management
OBR - however they had a telephone poll two days ago showing a 10 point lead the other way and this poll specifically had London +12 for leave which is unlikely
Or not enough being spent on it
How the the latest round on Marr go?
Probably people living longer needing more expensive medication for longer
Short of legalising (ok compulsory) euthanasia or some kind of logans run / soylent green scenario that funding gap is going to grow
So where exactly can I get all the facts for both votes, I'd rather be informed properly that have a bunch of people tell me reasons to vote for their choice
Ipsos Mori conducted a poll on perceptions vs reality in the EU and its absolutely terrifying.
http://www.slideshare.net/IpsosMORI...3742/The-Perils-of-Perception-and-the-EU.aspx
People who are wrong on virtually everything to do with the EU are going to decide our future in it.
http://www.slideshare.net/IpsosMORI...3742/The-Perils-of-Perception-and-the-EU.aspx
People who are wrong on virtually everything to do with the EU are going to decide our future in it.
Is the UK you having the same kinda "baby boom" driven spike in healthcare that we are in the states?
indeed we are - the major difference of course being we fund our healthcare systems slightly differently with "free at the point of delivery" being something inbuilt to our NHS (as is its state funding)
I wish we did that, to be honest. I don't see how we can claim to be the "greatest nation in the world" and have healthcare as a privilege.
It sounds grim, but in speaking of fiscal terms you occasionally have to be non-PC.. if we can get through the baby boomers, once that generation has died off, the strain on the healthcare system should lessen. Barring they cause its collapse, of course.
I guess it depends how much cutting edge healthcare costs at that point... if costs continue to spiral as research into genetics takes us further and further into what is possible (eg if growing new organs becomes standard does everybody want a new heart - and what are the costs of that!) - bionic type implants to mitigate the ageing process etc - I dont know what the answer is but my guess is it involves a lot of money in the short / medium term
I truly fear the road we are going down in some of our research into those things. It's something I've had my students discuss before in regards to overpopulation. I don't know that the greater good would be to develop bionic implants and newly grown organs, etc. If we "cure death", we all eventually starve, right?
perhaps we become robots who can repair ourselves and dont need food? - who am I kidding President Trumps going to nuke the world and there wont be any humans in a decade
Overbudget or underfunded? You tend to see either usage thrown around depending on who is describing the situation.
The budget is imposed so it shouldn't be confused with the way you'd use this term in private sector projects for instance.
There's certainly a lot of bad management and expensive consultancy fees paid over and over but the bigger issue is people living longer and the cost of chronic conditions caused by age and obesity.
I don't understand this talk of people living longer, it's as if this only happens in the UK, other countries have much better health services and people live longer there as well.
It's underfunded for a start, put some pennies on income tax and fund it from there, am sure the citizens of the UK would not complain - people would be happy and people should stop blaming the EU for UK inefficiency.
It's underfunded for a start, put some pennies on income tax and fund it from there, am sure the citizens of the UK would not complain - people would be happy and people should stop blaming the EU for UK inefficiency.
Might I ask, how exactly is NHS funded? Is there a percentage of your income tax earmarked for NHS in that you could tell how much of your tax goes toward it?
I'm very pro-single payer system and in the US that leads to people asking me questions about costs, taxes, etc.
I live in France where part of what is the equivalent of National Insurance in the UK is specifically earmarked for health care. In the UK it's different and seems to go into a big pot. This needs resolving in the UK. In France you pay much more in (NI) contributions but the money has to come from somewhere.
France is touted as having one of the best systems in Europe, at least over here, is it not?
Do you know how much you pay towards your health coverage then? I hope I am not sounding intrusive or anything, but the statistics aren't really available online, and I'd like to have numbers to give people to compare to here when we talk about it. I figure if I can't find them online, might as well ask Europeans and see.
The French health system is fantastic, I am English and experienced the NHS as well, the NHS is like a dinosaur in comparison.
I believe the amount is about 7.5% of one's salary in France
Actually no... there is something called NI contributions - people think this pays for pensions and healthcare
But if you look at the total tax take from NI it nowhere close to covers the costs of pensions and helthcare
As such the NI contributions are lumped in with general tax take and funding is based on what it costs (typically we cut other sectors to spare the health service any / as many cuts - Id like to say its becuase we value health above all else but in truth its politics)
So NHS is approx 18%
which is approximatley the same as the NI take
Though as I say most people mistakenly believe NI Covers all of the welfare state benefits
this is because it was first introduced with the National Healthcare act
It was then expended under the welfare benefit act
he current system of National Insurance has its roots in the National Insurance Act 1911, which introduced the concept of benefits based on contributions paid by employed persons and their employer.[4] The chosen means of recording the contributions required the employer to buy special stamps from a Post Office and affix them to contribution cards. The cards formed proof of entitlement to benefits and were given to the employee when the employment ended, leading to the loss of a job often being referred to as being given your cards, a phrase which endures to this day although the card itself no longer exists.
Initially there were two schemes running alongside each other, one for health and pension insurance benefits (administered by "approved societies" including friendly societies and some trade unions) and the other for unemployment benefit which was administered directly by Government. The Beveridge Report in 1942 proposed expansion and unification of the welfare state under a scheme of what was called social insurance. In March 1943 Winston Churchill in a broadcast entitled "After the War" committed the government to a system of "national compulsory insurance for all classes for all purposes from the cradle to the grave."[5]
After the Second World War, the Attlee government pressed ahead with the introduction of the Welfare State, of which an expanded National Insurance scheme was a major component. As part of this process, responsibility passed in 1948 to the new Ministry of National Insurance. At that point a single stamp was introduced which covered all the benefits of the new Welfare State.
Initially there were two schemes running alongside each other, one for health and pension insurance benefits (administered by "approved societies" including friendly societies and some trade unions) and the other for unemployment benefit which was administered directly by Government. The Beveridge Report in 1942 proposed expansion and unification of the welfare state under a scheme of what was called social insurance. In March 1943 Winston Churchill in a broadcast entitled "After the War" committed the government to a system of "national compulsory insurance for all classes for all purposes from the cradle to the grave."[5]
After the Second World War, the Attlee government pressed ahead with the introduction of the Welfare State, of which an expanded National Insurance scheme was a major component. As part of this process, responsibility passed in 1948 to the new Ministry of National Insurance. At that point a single stamp was introduced which covered all the benefits of the new Welfare State.
However the 19% comes nowhere close to funding health pensions and welfare which actually comprises more like 45% of all spending
FYI NI is charged over and above your normal income tax which ranges from 0-45% depending on income
NI is also charged in pay bands
Now i know that Remainers are suddenly very trusting of official Treasury reports, but even they must acknowledge that there are grounds to question the validity of Osborne's conclusions. Or to put it more frankly, the intentional misleading of the public. Leave's argument of brining money back to the UK is at least rooted in a premise which exists, whereas the Treasury has just gone and made stuff up.
@Cheesy - Scottish-English trade to fall by 80%? You must've been laughing to the point of tears when they came out with that one.
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Blustering Dave on where our EU bill is heading:
And what the Labour leader actually thinks:
And what the Labour leader actually thinks:
Thank you! That's what I needed to know. I've tried to tell people that it would be about equal to what we pay for insurance premiums to get lesser health coverage. My insurance premiums are between 7% to 7.5% of my salary.
As someone who carries a gene, a particularly nasty strain of dilated cardiomyopathy, I hope that they can do this as quickly as possible. Not for me, but for my 2 young boys who unfortunately have inherited the gene. Ticking time-bomb which I can do absolutely nothing about for my boys, I just hope that the genetics experts can someday find a cure, whether that's a brand new heart that lasts longer than 10 years, or something else.
sorry for going off topic
Uk lost £1bn since last week just on the exchange rate
So we are at the level last witnessed in the distant past of 2014, and this after the Euro plummeted in value last summer. I don't suppose you did a play-by-play of that though, or saw it as a reason to discontinue the Eurozone.
But as the UK economy is/or rather was doing better than the EU average we have to talk about recent history last 6 /8 months, the pound would have been much stronger currently without the fear of Brexit. Let's see what happens after the referendum - I'll have a wager that if the UK remains the pound will get stronger and if the UK leaves then the pound gets weaker
To be fair I think the Leave have admitted that is going to happen. Farage's defence was at least it was good for our exports.
Yes but he forgets the UK is a nett importer so the imports will cost more, disregarding the probable unfavourable terms
That wont work with tax shy brits
You're probably right, and they don't realise how lucky they are
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