EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?

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I'm voting for out. We will trade with Europe regardless of being in the EU, we can still remain in the EEA. We get royally screwed as a net contributor to the EU, and uncontrolled immigration from the EU is an issue.
 
Chorley1974 said:
I'm voting for out. We will trade with Europe regardless of being in the EU, we can still remain in the EEA. We get royally screwed as a net contributor to the EU, and uncontrolled immigration from the EU is an issue.
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Yes we can still remain in the EEA... As long as we pay money and implement most of the rules... Basically the same as now just with no input or opt out from the rules - sounds great we can be like Norway without the oil money
 
sun_tzu said:
Yes we can still remain in the EEA... As long as we pay money and implement most of the rules... Basically the same as now just with no input or opt out from the rules - sounds great we can be like Norway without the oil money
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Yeah, I forgot it's the same.
 
Then we call it EFTA+ or some other name.

The key difference, would be that a British government can actually regulate and if necessary reduce immigration, if there is the potential for adverse effects (saturation of a particular section of the labour market, depression of wages, inadequate infrastructure or housing in likely locations e.t.c.).

Contrary to the misinformation spread by Sal Brinton on QT last night, the objective is not to prevent all eastern Europeans from entering the UK. Indeed for someone claims to be an ''internationalist', she has a rather parochial European viewpoint.
 
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EFTA has four members, Liechtenstein, Iceland, Norway, and Switzerland, and as already said, they have no choice but to dance to the EU's tune.
Better to be in the band, I think.
 
712 said:
EFTA has four members, Liechtenstein, Iceland, Norway, and Switzerland, and as already said, they have no choice but to dance to the EU's tune.
Better to be in the band, I think.
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We're going to be hearing a lot about "the CEOs of BMW, Mercedes and VW going straight on the phone to Mrs Merkel", I fear.
 
712 said:
EFTA has four members, Liechtenstein, Iceland, Norway, and Switzerland, and as already said, they have no choice but to dance to the EU's tune.
Better to be in the band, I think.
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Not only is our position stronger, but our demands would be quite different. My point was that the basis of any deal will be trade. something upon which all can agree. We could even agree to an element of freedom of movement, however parliament should possess the means to curtail or reduce such.

There would also be equality when considering migrant applications, not the disgraceful system we operate at present. From a British perspective, why should someone from Spain or Romania be seen as superior to a citizen of South Africa or Japan?

The band, as you put it, cares most for the survival of the project (fair enough from their PoV), and shall seek policies harmful to this country even if unintentionally. London and Brussels do not view the world in the same way, the idea that we exist at the heart of European Union is a sad illusion perpetuated by those with vested interests. For the Should the Eurozone embrace further centralisation of pwers in the years ahead, those issues about which Britain can agree will become fewer still.
 
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Ubik said:
We're going to be hearing a lot about "the CEOs of BMW, Mercedes and VW going straight on the phone to Mrs Merkel", I fear.
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Did you quote the right post there Ubik?
As for CEOs of car producers, I would wait for the verdict of our hugely successful exporters: Nissan, Jaguar, Honda, Toyota. Real jobs, real wealth.
 
712 said:
Did you quote the right post there Ubik?
As for CEOs of car producers, I would wait for the verdict of our hugely successful exporters: Nissan, Jaguar, Honda, Toyota. Real jobs, real wealth.
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Was just generally agreeing with you but yeah it was a bit of a non sequitur, but the German car argument is what Farage and Nuttalls of the UKIPs like to trot out in response to everything these days. Speaking of Nuttalls, in the same line of argument on QT yesterday, he rubbished the Norway point as being due to the differing size of our economies, then proceeded to argue in the same breath cited the US and China deals as evidence of our likely outcome. He is the consummate bellend.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Not only is our position stronger, but our demands would be quite different. My point was that the basis of any deal will be trade. something upon which all can agree. We could even agree to an element of freedom of movement, however parliament should possess the means to curtail or reduce such.
There would also be equality when considering migrant applications, not the disgraceful system we operate at present. From a British perspective, why should someone from Spain or Romania be seen as superior to a citizen of South Africa or Japan?
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Couldn't agree more, yet Norway are so wealthy they negotiated from huge strength, but still couldn't achieve that.
If the Out campaign could convince me we would be in charge of immigration, and trade on even terms, I would vote that way like a shot, but so far they have done nothing in either case, absolutely nothing, so it's stay in for now.
 
I'm really not sure which way to vote, there's a lot of good reasons to vote out but I really dread to think what the tories will do if they don't have to worry about breaking EU laws.
 
Silva said:
I'm really not sure which way to vote, there's a lot of good reasons to vote out but I really dread to think what the tories will do if they don't have to worry about breaking EU laws.
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Curious as to your reasons for voting out. I'm also leaning that way but was wondering why other left-leaning progressives would be tempted.
 
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712 said:
Did you quote the right post there Ubik?
As for CEOs of car producers, I would wait for the verdict of our hugely successful exporters: Nissan, Jaguar, Honda, Toyota. Real jobs, real wealth.
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Though if they would want to have their European production bases in somewhere outside the eu is questionable... Especially as it is free movement of capital as well as labour
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
From a British perspective, why should someone from Spain or Romania be seen as superior to a citizen of South Africa or Japan?
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Because as a brit I can simply up sticks and work or live in either of those countries I can export / import without restrictions and have free movement of capital for business investments... So that's three reasons but essentially it's quid pro qo
 
Silva said:
I'm really not sure which way to vote, there's a lot of good reasons to vote out but I really dread to think what the tories will do if they don't have to worry about breaking EU laws.
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There is the the potential for an independent UK to shift somewhat to the left IMO: consider what effect such an outcome would have on UKIP, a party who will need to find a new purpose. Whether it be borne out of electoral necessity or the changing face of the modern Tory, it is likely that they would move close to the centre ground.

It ought to be a very interesting time, even rejuvenating, as the same old ideas won't provide the answers.


sun_tzu said:
Because as a brit I can simply up sticks and work or live in either of those countries I can export / import without restrictions and have free movement of capital for business investments... So that's three reasons but essentially it's quid pro qo
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What has any of that to do with a system which openly discriminates against most of the people on this planet? It is not a question of what a Briton can do, but rather what is inflicted upon others through EU membership.
 
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Kaos said:
Curious as to your reasons for voting out. I'm also leaning that way but was wondering why other left-leaning progressives would be tempted.
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It seems like it's being hijacked by the interested of multinationals - but it also serves a bureaucratic layer against the tories doing the exact same thing here (albeit it's easier to undo the damage in 1 country as opposed to a continent). It's like choosing where you want your interests to be sold out.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I have no idea why the UK would leave the EU, other than wiping 10% of the value of Sterling so far
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If the incompetence of the past 5-6 years hasn't been reason enough, we've got plenty of qualms from a sovereignty standpoint too.

I might ask why we should remain? Continuing the tribute of billions to those who serve interests contrary to our own, and accepting a most unreliable form of leadership on issues that we'd be better of handling ourselves.
 
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Read an article about how the financial industry isn't too thrilled about Brexit. Any chance of them uprooting from Canary Wharf to somewhere else on the Continent if Britain leaves?
 
adexkola said:
Read an article about how the financial industry isn't too thrilled about Brexit. Any chance of them uprooting from Canary Wharf to somewhere else on the Continent if Britain leaves?
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HSBC has confirmed it intends to remain in London, and one of the City's leading hedge-funds believes that Britain would be better off out. Yet it is a mixed picture, and were post-Brexit uncertainty to be of a lengthy duration, some might look to New York or Asia. For with an ongoing Eurozone debt crisis, continental migrant crisis, as well as what could be a Brexit crisis to boot, would elsewhere in Europe be necessarily more desirable.
 
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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
What has any of that to do with a system which openly discriminates against most of the people on this planet? It is not a question of what a Briton can do, but rather what is inflcited upon others through EU membership.
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Unless you are advocating complete freedom of movement I don't really see how this is any more discriminatory than any immigration policy anywhere. Why can't I move to California as easily as someone who lives in Florida?

Given that the end-point of human civilisation (if we don't kill ourselves first) will be complete freedom of movement (we have globalised capital, but not a globalised workforce?) I value the EU's attempt to bring that to the world in a small and growing way
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
HSBC has confirmed it intends to remain in London, and one of the City's leading hedge-funds believes that Britain would be better off out. Yet it is a mixed picture, and were post-Brexit uncertainty to be of a lengthy duration, some might look to New York or Asia. For with an ongoing Eurozone debt crisis, continental migrant crisis, as well as what could be a Brexit crisis to boot, would elsewhere in Europe be necessarily more desirable in any event.
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Makes sense.
 
I registered to be a Vote Leave volunteer today, hopefully i can be of some assistance locally. If it doesn't quite qualify as crunch time yet, it soon will.



Tim Farron was up to his usual scaremongering on Fivelive this afternoon:

- If the UK leaves the EU it will very quickly become impoverished.
- The Leave campaign wishes to seal the country off from the rest of the world.
- We only maintain global influence through the European Union.

:rolleyes:
 
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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I registered to be a Vote Leave volunteer today, hopefully i can be of some assistance locally. If it doesn't quite qualify as crunch time yet, it soon will.



Tim Farron was up to his usual scaremongering on Fivelive this afternoon:

- If the UK leaves the EU it will very quickly become impoverished.
- The Leave campaign wished to seal the country off from the rest of the world.
- We only maintain global influence through the European Union.

:rolleyes:
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Shit like that was what I couldn't stand during the Scottish referendum. Cameron's "national security" warnings about the EU have been a pile of shite as well. Still undecided, but melodramatic nonsense as to how it threatens our safety tempts me to lean further towards leave.
 
^ When either the cast of characters or politics preclude one side from making a positive emotional argument, they are prone to descend into nonsense


Update from Brussels:


It is also being reported that Michael Gove could be on the verge of declaring for Leave.
 
Gove would be a reasonable coup for leave, he's a good arguer on TV. Boris is the big one though.
 
I'd anticipated some staged last minute difficulties to provide a false sense of achievement with what he's secured. Now I'm not so sure he'll even manage that.
 
Silva said:
Gove is so hatable though, I'd be temped to vote in just to go against him.
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Been surprisingly good since he went to Justice. Does have that smug look of someone with the knowledge they'll never be bogwashed again though.
 
I used to think EU would be great until I saw the waste of money with the euro parliament members which are over 700 and they can't decide jack shit, my idea of EU was economic and without borders for his members but stops there. The USE is a bad idea, too many cultures and languages and will never work, Hitler tried and failed.
 
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