EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?


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There have been riots in France in the past couple of days but mainstream in the UK media fail to report it or report a watered down version well after it has all calmed down. You can bet this is because of the upcoming referendum. Know one needs to be reminded the EU is actually in turmoil as it might benefit the leave campaign. You may also notice any reports or images of migrants coming over have all but disappeared from our tv screens now.

With media blackouts on anything negative about the EU and the non stop scare mongering coming from the remain side that is constantly drilled into peoples subconscious I can see this swaying many of the undecided to vote remain.
It was covered in all the British press with the same glee we always report about the revolting French, something they do around the same time every year and usually with fairly good reason in reminding their politicians that they will not stand for the removal of their rights unlike us Brits who roll over and take it. We used to have similar protests and riots in my youth but they've been all but stopped from the mainstream with only a handful of hardcore anarchist groups and agent-provocateurs causing outrage on the pages of our press when they do stand up against something.

How you can say the coverage of migrants has been quashed when it's all we bleeding hear is even more mind boggling, the fact our television coverage grants equal time to genuine politicians and clowns like UKIP is clearly part of the cover up isn't it. Sure, there's probably a lack of decent statistical coverage on our migrant problem but that's not down to a lack of effort but the fact that the problem is hugely over exaggerated by a bunch of idiots with an axe to grind. I'm surprised given your high rank in the tinfoil hat brigade that you're so easily duped, but not that surprised.
 
@Bury Red

You have, and can work all over the world, why do you care so strongly what happens in the UK? I certainly don't. Personally I'd like to see the UK leave and Cameron resign. Then, from my cosy life in Holland I can sit back and watch the fun
 
I sadly think vote leave will win by a slim margin and it could be an insane decade or two

Apologies for ignoring the rest of your post, but odds for Leave are now 7/2 if you fancy it. Risking £100 could make you £350 profit.
Remain are at 1/5 on, ie you have to risk £100 to gain £20.

At the moment it's looking strongly like Leavers will be disappointed.
 
@Bury Red

You have, and can work all over the world, why do you care so strongly what happens in the UK? I certainly don't. Personally I'd like to see the UK leave and Cameron resign. Then, from my cosy life in Holland I can sit back and watch the fun
Well aren't you just lovely?
 
@Bury Red

You have, and can work all over the world, why do you care so strongly what happens in the UK? I certainly don't. Personally I'd like to see the UK leave and Cameron resign. Then, from my cosy life in Holland I can sit back and watch the fun
Because I'm back Stan, I've family who can't or won't leave and need me here for now and a wife who at present insists we are staying put although that might change post Brexit. I'm not in the least bit patriotic thanks to those on the right who have hijacked patriotism but I am somewhat fond of the UK for all it's failings and do think that we could and should rebuild and repair the damage that our politicians and big business have done during my lifetime For all my criticism of the UK it's still a fairly cushy place to live provided you are able to keep your head above water and can avoid the idiots, we're also still fairly close to the hilltop in terms of human existence and with the tide rising those on lower ground are seeking to keep their feet dry so it's beholden on those of us with a sense of decency to prevent our idiot kin from building walls around our hilltop kingdom and hurling shit over the walls.
 
There have been riots in France in the past couple of days but mainstream in the UK media fail to report it or report a watered down version well after it has all calmed down. You can bet this is because of the upcoming referendum. Know one needs to be reminded the EU is actually in turmoil as it might benefit the leave campaign. You may also notice any reports or images of migrants coming over have all but disappeared from our tv screens now.

With media blackouts on anything negative about the EU and the non stop scare mongering coming from the remain side that is constantly drilled into peoples subconscious I can see this swaying many of the undecided to vote remain.

The problems in France were about the labour laws from the French government, ie nothing to do with the Uk or a referendum or the EU.
 
Apologies for ignoring the rest of your post, but odds for Leave are now 7/2 if you fancy it. Risking £100 could make you £350 profit.
Remain are at 1/5 on, ie you have to risk £100 to gain £20.

At the moment it's looking strongly like Leavers will be disappointed.
Wow they are some long odds. I would've thought it would be a hell of a lot closer than that, the Leavers seem to be far more passionate about this issue than the Remains which should see a higher percentage of the Leavers actually voting.
 
Wow they are some long odds. I would've thought it would be a hell of a lot closer than that, the Leavers seem to be far more passionate about this issue than the Remains which should see a higher percentage of the Leavers actually voting.
Was the same story during the Scottish referendum. It's hard to be passionate about the status quo, but when it's such an important vote turnout goes up.
 
The problems in France were about the labour laws from the French government, ie nothing to do with the Uk or a referendum or the EU.
Exactly, it was the French government trying to impose new labour laws on French workers who stood up for their rights. Something I wish we were still capable of in the UK.

Doesn't stop some in the Brexit camp trying to spin the coverage or lack of it in their eyes as some media conspiracy in favour of the Remain campaign.
 
'Leave' campaign getting desperate. Daily Express says '12 million Turks will come to the UK' if Britain stays in and Turkey joins. Okay!
 
'Leave' campaign getting desperate. Daily Express says '12 million Turks will come to the UK' if Britain stays in and Turkey joins. Okay!

Terrible thought.

(Except, there's abosutely no chance of Turkey joining the EU any time soon. Not by 2020, 2025 or 2030.)
 
When China joins the EU we'll probably get half a billion Chinese immigrants within 5 years so I say Britain must exit the EU.
 
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45 million Poles to flood UK if it votes to stay in EU

Research carried out as revealed that 45 million Polish citizens are set to flood the UK in the event that it decides to remain in the European Union.

The shocking statistics come just over a month before voters go to the polls to decide whether or not they see a future away from the other European nations.

Should the result favour the stay campaign, it would compound the UK's woes as it already struggles to stay afloat in the face of overwhelming numbers of immigrants already pouring into the country.

Peter Clark, a resident of Dover who has witnessed the immigration crisis firsthand, expressed his dismay at the numbers.

"Just outrageous. I've seen things people wouldn't believe. Wheelie bins on fire at the edge of my garden. I watched fireworks used to threaten people near the corner shop. All those moments thanks to our EU membership."

Critics questioned the statistics, pointing out that Poland only has a population of 38.4 million. However, Winston Fielder, head of the team that carried out the research, explained the discrepancy in numbers.

He revealed that Polish mothers had already been planning their pregnancies ahead of the referendum, intending to give birth upon arriving in the UK.

In addition to the crisis facing immigration controls, such a reality would also see the NHS inundated with Polish mothers seeking to claim British passports for their children.
 
Where i work there are about 10 dutch people out of the 50 staff, the rest are all here cos there is no work in their countries. most are from the eu. Fair play for wanting a better life
 
A few million turks can only help the UK. The quality of your average kebab is quite bad, definitely improvement needed.
 
I think the invasion is well underway all ready, we've gone from a few Turkish grills to a dozen in the past couple of years
 
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Repulsive as they may be, Cameron and Osborne have been more effective up tot this point (not that there's been much truth involved at any point). I hope the Tory Party tears them to pieces; i might even have to engage in a spot of entryism myself, should there be a leadership contest.

I suppose it will be fairly galling for Labour supporters too though, if their actions put Osborne in No 10. Whilst those Conservatives who are intimidated into voting for Remain, shall have to live with a diminished and ultimately subservient country.

No, i am not feeling particularly optimistic this morning. :) :(
 
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Repulsive as they may be, Cameron and Osborne have been more effective up tot this point (not that there's been much truth involved at any point). I hope the Tory Party tears them to pieces; i might even have to engage in a spot of entryism myself, should there be a leadership contest.

I suppose it will be fairly galling for Labour supporters too though, if their actions put Osborne in No 10. Whilst those Conservatives who are intimidated into voting for Remain, shall have to live with a diminished and ultimately subservient country.

No, i am not feeling particularly optimistic this morning. :) :(

I think if remain wins then its as good a time as any for Cameron to go... he will leave on a relative high and avoid the nightmare of the civil war that will almost certainly engulf the party post referendum (imagine for example UK votes to remain but when you break down the figures England actually voted to leave).

Boris is a shoe in if a leadership election is called whilst the rift of the referendum is still fresh and I cant see Cameron hanging around dealing with all the trouble and tarnishing his legacy (you can argue how string that is but it only become weaker if he is ousted against his will or ends with terrible infighting) just for the sake of helping out his mate George on the off chance that 2 years later the majority of the conservative party membership forgive him for backing the remain campaign.

Leadership election - Boris wins and if the polls show massive favourables over Corbyn (and I suspect they will) a snap election before Labour can get a new leader themselves
 
I suppose it will be fairly galling for Labour supporters too though, if their actions put Osborne in No 10. Whilst those Conservatives who are intimidated into voting for Remain, shall have to live with a diminished and ultimately subservient country.

I'd probably be more worried if Dave stayed tbh in terms of the Tories electability. The mans absolutely teflon and seems to be weirdly well liked by the centre. I don't think either Gideon or Boris appeal to the masses in the same way (well maybe English Donald does, but more for being a clown than for his ability as a politician, can't see him keeping that support if he has to talk about serious issues on a day-to-day basis).
 
Leave are running a poor campaign. They don't seem to learn from losing an argument, and keep making the same mistakes over and over again. For instance using the wrong contribution figures on a daily basis for weeks now, to be inevitably told each time that they're wrong. Why not just use the net figure instead? the point would be the same yet not be devalued by being simply wrong. Same with Turkey, the thought of them joining could actually swing my vote as I'm close to it on immigration, but there's no chance of it happening, Germany, France or the UK, well actually all three, would certainly veto it. They could instead stick to real immigration and make their point, instead of looking wrong again.

Without rehashing the entire debate it seems to me that Leave has no leadership, central strategy, or control. Who's to blame? Well if Boris purports to be PM then he should have proved himself capable of creating and running an effective organisation months ago, when he was actually dithering over what to do, so I blame him.

I don't think Boris is a shoe-in for next Tory leader at all, in fact I don't think it will be Boris or Osborne, I'll be looking for an outsider to bet on.
 
Without rehashing the entire debate it seems to me that Leave has no leadership, central strategy, or control. Who's to blame? Well if Boris purports to be PM then he should have proved himself capable of creating and running an effective organisation months ago, when he was actually dithering over what to do, so I blame him.

I don't think Boris is a shoe-in for next Tory leader at all, in fact I don't think it will be Boris or Osborne, I'll be looking for an outsider to bet on.

I remember when there was all the will Boris back in or out hoopla going on and one article that rang true for me was he will probably back leave because he thinks they will loose... he probably wouldnt want to be PM trying to unwind the treaties with Europe and dealing with all the potential economic uncertainties. But backing leave and loosing is probably the best scenario for him to become conservative leader (and this PM) as it pits him against Gideon on an issue the overwhelming majority of the membership back him

Might be bollocks but it just struck me as a very Boris type move (and probably if your being Machiavellian about it a pretty logical one)
 
I think backing Leave was Boris' best chance of Tory leadership win or lose the referendum, but he's proving so inept at it that I can't see even the MPs on his own side of the argument voting for him.
And too many won't forgive Cameron and Osborne either, so it's a third candidate for me, and before the year's out too.

Of course, events and all that, Leave could still win, but it would be against the odds at the moment.
 
I think backing Leave was Boris' best chance of Tory leadership win or lose the referendum, but he's proving so inept at it that I can't see even the MPs on his own side of the argument voting for him.
And too many won't forgive Cameron and Osborne either, so it's a third candidate for me, and before the year's out too.

Of course, events and all that, Leave could still win, but it would be against the odds at the moment.
indeed - I think it will be a race between Labour and the Conservatives to get a new leader
The Conservatives to make sure they get a campaign against Corbyn
Labour (Mp's) to try and remove the possibility.
Will be interesting times at Westminster that's for sure
 
I remember when there was all the will Boris back in or out hoopla going on and one article that rang true for me was he will probably back leave because he thinks they will loose... he probably wouldnt want to be PM trying to unwind the treaties with Europe and dealing with all the potential economic uncertainties. But backing leave and loosing is probably the best scenario for him to become conservative leader (and this PM) as it pits him against Gideon on an issue the overwhelming majority of the membership back him

Might be bollocks but it just struck me as a very Boris type move (and probably if your being Machiavellian about it a pretty logical one)
He is quite a cunning operator, so it wouldn't surprise me..
 
Question - Is there any talk/ suggestion about the fall-out from a scenario where Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland all vote 'remain', while the majority of England votes 'leave'?
then they should probably quote facts instead of making up (or regurgitating lies) that say for example there are 31 EU laws about toothbrushes and engage in a more serious debate.
For example in what way do you feel it is bloated - and how does this "interfere" with our day to day lives in a way which any alternate system (that I presume you can outline) wont... of course after admitting that there are not 31 EU rules about toothbrushes because if your going to insist there is then what is the point in trying to engage in a more constructive way?
Good post (as ever!).
 
Question - Is there any talk/ suggestion about the fall-out from a scenario where Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland all vote 'remain', while the majority of England votes 'leave'?

Good post (as ever!).
lots of talk about if UK votes to leave and Scotland votes to remain... eg would this be cause for a second scottish independence referendum.
I asked the question a while back in this thread what about if the scenario where England is effectivley stopped leaving the EU by a strong Scottish vote to remain?
Would UKIP and possibly even the conservatives abandon their pro unionist stance and back the push / campaign for a second Scottish referendum (so they could argue for a legitimate reason to push for a 2nd EU referendum in England)
Farrage has already said if its close there will be calls for a second referendum (personally I think thats daft) but this sort of argument could give a narrative behind pushing for one
 
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Repulsive as they may be, Cameron and Osborne have been more effective up tot this point (not that there's been much truth involved at any point). I hope the Tory Party tears them to pieces; i might even have to engage in a spot of entryism myself, should there be a leadership contest.

I suppose it will be fairly galling for Labour supporters too though, if their actions put Osborne in No 10. Whilst those Conservatives who are intimidated into voting for Remain, shall have to live with a diminished and ultimately subservient country.

No, i am not feeling particularly optimistic this morning. :) :(
I imagine most Labour supporters will be happy enough if it's Osborne who follows Cameron into number 10. He has the charisma and likeability of a hairy arse-crack,

I guess that it completely depends on how the Tories vote for their leader, my (possibly completely rubbish) assumption is that Osborne would have the majority of the MP's support him, but Boris would probably swing it with the (very small) 'membership'.
 
lots of talk about if UK votes to leave and Scotland votes to remain... eg would this be cause for a second scottish independence referendum.
I asked the question a while back in this thread what about if the scenario where England is effectivley stopped leaving the EU by a strong Scottish vote to remain?
Would UKIP and possibly even the conservatives abandon their pro unionist stance and back the push / campaign for a second Scottish referendum (so they could argue for a legitimate reason to push for a 2nd EU referendum in England)
Farrage has already said if its close there will be calls for a second referendum (personally I think thats daft) but this sort of argument could give a narrative behind pushing for one
I guess at a very minimum, calls for an English Parliament would skyrocket, and be a very easy votewinner for the likes of UKIP (EIP?), against the ginger devils to the North. It worryingly coincides with the rebuild of Parliament that's coming up too.
 
I guess at a very minimum, calls for an English Parliament would skyrocket, and be a very easy votewinner for the likes of UKIP (EIP?), against the ginger devils to the North. It worryingly coincides with the rebuild of Parliament that's coming up too.
House of Lords reform in general would be popular I think - the idea of non elected and hereditary peers - some of whom have less than stellar voting records does not seem very 21st century.
Perhaps the big worry for the Commons (who will have to enact any change) is that a directly elected PR system might prove popular and once people are democratically elected they are going to push for more power which is ultimately a threat to MP's power... so its a strange one.
I think English votes for English issues is an obvious vote winner but when you look at powers devolved to the Scottish and Welsh assemblies (NHS, education - some tax issues) I cant see MP's in westminister wanting to give that up to an English assembly so I dont know what fudge they will come up with - but probably something self serving and useless
 
Another idiot question.

What are the very likely benefits to me (an average joe, married, both work full time,3 kids) if we leave the EU?

Nobody really knows but imo taxes would increase, unemployment would increase and food and goods would become more expensive but those who are the Leave camp will probably say the opposite
 
Another idiot question.

What are the very likely benefits to me (an average joe, married, both work full time,3 kids) if we leave the EU?
@Nick 0208 Ldn should attempt to answer that.

But basically - not a lot. You'll be in a country which has slightly greater autonomy over its political affairs in some ways, and slightly less in a few others. Depending on your industry, the UK government could then have the ability to engage in protectionism, which they undoubtedly wouldn't. Any suggested financial benefits suggested from not having to pay the EU membership fee are completely negated by what we'll lose in terms of exports. House prices will fall, which could be a benefit for you. We would probably have slightly fewer EU immigrants (though freedom of movement with EU countries would be very, very unlikely to be abolished - see Switzerland's trade deal).

And that's without mentioning any negatives.
 
Nobody really knows but imo taxes would increase, unemployment would increase and food and goods would become more expensive but those who are the Leave camp will probably say the opposite

It seems with the leave campaign there is a certainty that there would be at least a temporary recession, drop in house prices and increase in food price. Is there no guaranteed positives that even the remain would concede as likely?
 
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