EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

What a guy.

Whilst that holds true for Obama's domestic policy agenda, or at least the intentions of such, his foreign policy choices have been rather more sketchy. Not only is he an enthusiastic supporter of both the TPP and TTIP, but one can not overlook the errors of judgement in North Africa and the Middle East. Does he get a 'What a guy!' for those too?

 

[Jippy]

Jesus, that reads like the DMReporter spoof twitter account.

 

[BringNaniBack]

Whilst that holds true for Obama's domestic policy agenda, or at least the intentions of such, his foreign policy choices have been rather more sketchy. Not only is he an enthusiastic supporter of both the TPP and TTIP, but one can not overlook the errors of judgement in North Africa and the Middle East. Does he get a 'What a guy!' for those too?

Thank you and that is just the start of the problems he has caused.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Dear oh dear. Surely America is acting purely in self interest and is wary of the global economic shock that could result from a Brexit. Of course Brexiteers like Johnson couldn't actually admit that as it would be admitting that their plan is fraught with unknowns.

 

[Ubik]

Whilst that holds true for Obama's domestic policy agenda, or at least the intentions of such, his foreign policy choices have been rather more sketchy. Not only is he an enthusiastic supporter of both the TPP and TTIP, but one can not overlook the errors of judgement in North Africa and the Middle East. Does he get a 'What a guy!' for those too?

With the middle east, the choice these days is seemingly to take the option that'll turn out slightly less badly. Would we be in a better situation in Libya if Gaddhafi forces had been allowed to raize Benghazi? Maybe overall it would be stabler, or maybe it would still be in a catastrophic civil war but we'd have Benghazi on our conscience just like we had Srebrenica or Rwanda. The prime thing being, I don't doubt his intentions at all. With Syria, next to nothing has been done and 300,000 are dead.

What's your view on Boris' "part-Kenyan" comment?

 

[Cheesy]

I don't mind Obama but I'd take any intervention from him with a pinch of salt. A UK Brexit would undoubtedly prompt a lot of doubt across Europe and the world in certain matters, and I'd expect it's probably in the best interests of the US for that not to happen. Obama's going to be speaking from the position that he feels benefits the US more, and is unlikely all that bothered in what he genuinely feels is the better option for the UK. Even though I'm sure I'd probably agree with much of what he says on the matter.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

With the middle east, the choice these days is seemingly to take the option that'll turn out slightly less badly. Would we be in a better situation in Libya if Gaddhafi forces had been allowed to raize Benghazi? Maybe overall it would be stabler, or maybe it would still be in a catastrophic civil war but we'd have Benghazi on our conscience just like we had Srebrenica or Rwanda. The prime thing being, I don't doubt his intentions at all. With Syria, next to nothing has been done and 300,000 are dead.

Libya - Intervening and sodding off, then allowing Qatar to use the country as its plaything, was the policy we actually went with though. Consequently, unrest has spread into neighbouring countries and a migrant crisis took hold. Was nothing learnt from recent history?

Syria - He was prepared to move in and depose the Assad regime without a semblance of a plan for the aftermath (to say nothing of the Russian response), i believe we've been there before. As matters have turned out, this meeting of Cameron and Obama amounts to a gathering of politicians who would describe extremist factions as our ground forces in the country.

What's your view on Boris' "part-Kenyan" comment?

It was unnecessary and arguably crass. but not racist as some are suggesting. I can but assume that the theme of the article was thought to suit the readership; it is worth remembering mind, that Obama's opinion of the UK has been the source of much debate since Gordon Brown's time as Prime Minister, and is not a construct of Boris'.

 

[Dobba]

It was unnecessary and arguably crass. but not racist as some are suggesting. I can but assume that the theme of the article was thought to suit the readership; it is worth remembering mind, that Obama's opinion of the UK has been the source of much debate since Gordon Brown's time as Prime Minister, and is not a construct of Boris'.

True. It is partly a construct of Glenn Beck, who also claimed Obama had a "deep seated hatred of white people or the white culture". What an ally to have.

 

[DOTA]

Didn't think suggesting Obama wasn't particularly fond of the UK was controversial, to be honest.

Bringing his ancestry in to it is a rather different matter, mind.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

True. It is partly a construct of Glenn Beck, who also claimed Obama had a "deep seated hatred of white people or the white culture". What an ally to have.

IIRC, the story began to gain momentum following a visit by Gordon Brown to Washington in 2009, with claims that the PM had been snubbed by Obama. Whilst more recently, during his second term in office, the administration's stance on the Falkland Islands seriously irked ministers over here.

 

[Red Defence]

You don't keep track of currencies then, it's the pound on a downward spiral

Ah sorry, should have pointed out that I'm sometimes ahead of the game. You'll seem I'm right.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Courtesy of one of someone i follow on Twitter:

RMT Press Office:

The European Parliament’s decision this week to back the opening up of all rail routes across the EU to more competition for private operators was just one more reason to vote Leave on June 23, transport union RMT said today.

Under the proposals in the EU’s so-called Fourth Railway Package, train operators would have complete access to the networks of member states to operate domestic passenger services.

The European Council had already agreed that mandatory competitive tendering should be the main way of awarding public service contracts.

RMT general secretary Mick Cash said that the failed Tory privatisation of rail over twenty years ago using EU directive 91/440 was now being imposed on 500 million people by EU diktat without a mandate.

“This rail package is designed to privatise railways across Europe and its proposals are remarkably similar to the McNulty report on the future of GB railways, imposing further fragmentation and attacks on workers.

“McNulty, the Tory government and the EU share the business-led mania for privatisation and agree on the need to jack up fares and attack jobs, pay and pensions to pay for it, no-one has voted for that.

“It is impossible to make changes to this privatisation juggernaut inside the undemocratic EU so the only solution is to get out by voting Leave on June 23,” he said.

 

[Untied]

Nick Cohen on Boris

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Didn't think suggesting Obama wasn't particularly fond of the UK was controversial, to be honest.

Bringing his ancestry in to it is a rather different matter, mind.

Why wouldn't he be fond of the UK?

 

[DOTA]

Why wouldn't he be fond of the UK?

Just doesn't seem to be, based on things he's said/done. Don't think he's gotten on with either PM particularly and think he, and Clinton for that matter, reckons the 'special relationship' is a bit silly (which I agree on, personally). Not suggesting he greatly dislikes the UK, just that he doesn't share the slightly fetishised view of us that quite a few Americans have.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Just doesn't seem to be, based on things he's said/done. Don't think he's gotten on with either PM particularly and think he, and Clinton for that matter, reckons the 'special relationship' is a bit silly (which I agree on, personally). Not suggesting he greatly dislikes the UK, just that he doesn't share the slightly fetishised view of us that quite a few Americans have.

Perhaps.

I did hear a higher up from the NSA saying (sincerely) that we are their most crucial partner in the intelligence world so I think the we are seen as an important ally for them, at least on that level. The 'special relationship' is something that I have always found a little cringey though.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Ah sorry, should have pointed out that I'm sometimes ahead of the game. You'll seem I'm right.

I follow them all day long in my work. If the UK leaves, the Pound will be well under €1.20/£1 - I dread to think how low

 

[711]

Is Boris going to piss off every former colony, one by one?

Sorry Kenya, Boris is a wanker, ignore him.

 

[Kaos]

I always assumed the US would be pushing for Brexit, Europe is less friendly and compliant towards the US than the UK is, or at least it is when it comes to foreign policy.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

I always assumed the US would be pushing for Brexit, Europe is less friendly and compliant towards the US than the UK is, or at least it is when it comes to foreign policy.

They have been dabbling with the idea of a USE since the very beginning:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ro-federalists-financed-by-US-spy-chiefs.html

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Brexit is ruining my plan to earn your Queen's pounds and transfer them back to Ireland. It was brilliant with last year's exchange rate. Am I in Boris/Nigel/Gove's line of fire?

Seriously though, I want to settle here and contribute to society. I despise anything that gives vile windbags like Katie Hopkins the opportunity to denigrate immigrants. It's laughable. Brits are all the world and have been for a very long time, ahem. A frank discussion about the benefit of being in or out is welcome but surely the Tories knew the tone it would take when their own party is not even fully behind their position. It is all so haphazard and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Leave folks run enough disruption to win.

I've registered to vote, will hopefully be approved and will be voting stay.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...-home-to-almost-civilised-ireland-730852.html

 

[Adisa]

Obama basically called those saying UK would just waltz around signing the kind of trade deals they want, fantasists.

 

[Adisa]

Some Brexit leaders will be cursing

 

[NinjaFletch]

I don't think Johnson's 'part-Kenyan' comments are that bad on their own. Its pretty obvious why someone of Kenyan heritage might dislike Britain because of our colonial history there.

However, Boris Johnson is –despite his best attempts to portray himself as one– not an idiot, he had to have known the context of what he was saying, the insinuations he was making and how those comments would be interpreted.

Some Brexiters leaders will be cursing

Would almost be funny if this wasn't so serious.

 

[Sir Matt]

I always assumed the US would be pushing for Brexit, Europe is less friendly and compliant towards the US than the UK is, or at least it is when it comes to foreign policy.

The US would never be for breaking up the EU. It may not agree with everything the US or NATO does, but it shares a number of economic and security interests with the US. The US has trade deals with the EU and would need to renegotiate deals with the UK outside of that, which would cause economic issues for the US and UK in the short and long term. The UK leaving could be the start of other nations leaving and causing the refragmentation of Europe. That would lead to some nations, outside of NATO, potentially falling into orbit of Russia. That's why Le Pen and other pro-Putin individuals throughout Europe are pro-exit. I'm sure her loans from Moscow didn't come without terms.

The EU also serve as a strong ally internationally outside of Europe for the US. It has far more influence than its individual nations would have otherwise. The US and EU share a number of values that allow them to work together for certain goals. The US can't very well work with Russia or China to support democratic institutions around the world, can it?

I suppose you lot could apply for statehood.

 

[Adisa]

The video

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Some Brexiters leaders will be cursing

We wish to stand together with our friends the world over, not a pack of power hungry leeches in Brussels.

Am i right to assume that you wish to stand at the front of the queue for TTIP? I suppose it is at least consistent with the EU's dodgy practices.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

To all Brexiters I would say "forgive them for they know not what they do"

 

[NinjaFletch]

We wish to stand together with our friends the world over, not a pack of power hungry leeches in Brussels.

And i assume then, that you wish to stand at the front of the queue for TTIP?

I thought your argument was that we should leave because of the -how did you phrase it?- 'bespoke' trade deals everyone would be falling over themselves to give us?

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

I thought your argument was that we should leave because of the -how did you phrase it?- 'bespoke' trade deals everyone would be falling over themselves to give us?

Did you mean to quote that post or another one. as i am struggling with the context of your reply.

 

[711]

I liked the bit where Obama said Brexiteers have been telling everyone how they would make new deals with the US after leaving, but as soon as someone from the US dared to venture an opinion then it shouldn't be allowed. Put his other comments in context for me.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Did you mean to quote that post or another one. as i am struggling with the context of your reply.

I meant to quote yours.

For months your argument has been an economic one as much as anything else, in the past two days or so all you've done is complain repeatedly about how big, bad, and evil the EU is.

Does this mean that, in the face of mounting evidence that Britain would not be better off, you are abandoning the viewpoint that Brexit would be of economic benefit to the UK?

 

[Revan]

To all Brexiters I would say "forgive them for they know not what they do"

The funny thing is that in 10 years UK will be asking to join EU even with Euros and Schengen.

Maybe for the better. UK was never completely in EU.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Today could be the crucial moment in the referendum. You don't get a bigger gun than Obama to wheel out and he totally killed it. Then you have Boris and Farage for remain looking like xenophobic troglodytes in comparison.

I think a lot of undecided voters will now be swayed to remain.

@Revan

Why do you say that?

 

[Cheesy]

Johnson's comments aren't inherently racist as such in themselves, but they're essentially based in what is conspiracy theory nonsense that has no bearing on the issue of the EU itself, or America's position.

Barack Obama might bare some ill will towards the UK for what happened to his grandfather...but is there any actual, stone-cold, concrete proof of this? Or is it just, ultimately, daft speculation? I'd say it's the latter, and the fact that one of the leave campaign's most prominent figures resorts to such nonsense when discussing the issue shows how staggeringly incompetent they look in the face of any economic arguments against them.

I'm all for Boris trying to dispute Obama's comments, or highlight as to why he could potentially be misleading us...but he appears to have no interest in doing so with actual economic evidence.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

I meant to quote yours.

For months your argument has been an economic one as much as anything else, in the past two days or so all you've done is complain repeatedly about how big, bad, and evil the EU is.

Does this mean that, in the face of mounting evidence that Britain would not be better off, you are abandoning the viewpoint that Brexit would be of economic benefit to the UK?

I think it means that you need to make use of the search function, and follow the debate with greater care in future.

 

[Cheesy]

The funny thing is that in 10 years UK will be asking to join EU even with Euros and Schengen.

Maybe for the better. UK was never completely in EU.

I do think that's a fair point. We only really seem interested in half being in the EU, presumably wanting the perks and benefits, while wanting to shirk away from the stuff we've got little interest in.

Today could be the crucial moment in the referendum. You don't get a bigger gun than Obama to wheel out and he totally killed it. Then you have Boris and Farage for remain looking like xenophobic troglodytes in comparison.

I think a lot of undecided voters will now be swayed to remain.

@Revan

Why do you say that?

Yeah, that's a fair point. The intervention of Obama was always going to be massive, but the leave campaign could've tried to make a decent response based in economic evidence. The fact that they haven't done so speaks volumes.

 

[berbatrick]

Every time the UK under Boris makes any move, it should be scrutinised in light of his race and ancestry. "Whites want to reconquer India", for example.

 

[Adisa]

Nigel Farage is a funny man. "The world will be desperate to trade with us. We will get the kind of deals we want"
The most important man in the world says, you're having a laugh.
Farage' response is to call him a liar.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I think it means that you need to make use of the search function, and follow the debate with greater care in future.

I think you're dodging the question. Do you still believe that Britain will be better off, and able to construct 'bespoke' trade deals at a whim as you have claimed before?

Yes or No?