EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

But, if you take the opposite pov the younger generations haven't known anything else so have nothing to compare it with and don't know how to live without it. Maybe they're the ones who shouldn't be voting.

Sounds awfully conservative to me. Don't tell them i said that though.

This sort of thing annoys me, as frankly those over 60 shouldn't be having a major say in issues that will predominantly affect the younger generations, and will continue to do so for long after these guys have bitten the dust..

Would those be the same young, educated people, who we have seen on national television suggesting that they wouldn't be able to travel or be part of the global community and have so easily have foreign friends?

It's quite sweet really, but fortunately not all young people think along such ludicrous lines.

 

[rcoobc]

To what end would they pursue such a policy, its' not going ot reduce the number of migrants passing through northern France, or even negate the need for camps. No long to this branch of Project Fear

It is also worth noting that this is being voiced by the French finance minister, and not someone with a brief at the Interior department or security. All we have is a member of a rival government running their mouth, and one who could stand to lose on a personal level should we vote for Brexit.

Do you deny that there has been some utterly ridiculous scaremongering then? I would argue we've even seen some in here.

Well Francis Hollande has said he is holding his peace for now. It might not reduce the migrants coming through France, but it will get rid of an eyesore in Calais and save them money.

 

[Walrus]

Would those be the same young, educated people, who we have seen on national television suggesting that they wouldn't be able to travel or be part of the global community and have so easily have foreign friends?

It's quite sweet really, but fortunately not all young people think along such ludicrous lines.

I don't know what a few guys have said on the television here and there, what I know (or think, rather) is that people shouldn't vote on issues that won't affect them - had the same argument with Scottish MPs being able to vote on English issues etc.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Well Francis Hollande has said he is holding his peace for now. It might not reduce the migrants coming through France, but it will get rid of an eyesore in Calais and save them money.

Where are these migrants to stay before they attempt passage? Presumably there would be an even greater number than at present, are the French going to buy them tickets and put them up in hotels?

I don't know what a few guys have said on the television here and there, what I know (or think, rather) is that people shouldn't vote on issues that won't affect them - had the same argument with Scottish MPs being able to vote on English issues etc.

It's been a common them actually, the UK's going to turn into some cross between North Korea and the Islamic State going by some of the arguments you hear. lol

Of course it is relevant to older people: they'll have children and grandchildren for whom the EU can be a negative force, and their taxes are routinely being wasted by a corrupt foreign institution. How can it possible not be their place to speak?

 

[Mozza]

Would those be the same young, educated people, who we have seen on national television suggesting that they wouldn't be able to travel or be part of the global community and have so easily have foreign friends?

It's quite sweet really, but fortunately not all young people think along such ludicrous lines.

If the EU decide to make life as hard for our citizens to visit as we will make it for theirs then travel will become a lot harder

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

If the EU decide to make life as hard for our citizens to visit as we will make it for theirs then travel will become a lot harder

Horror or horrors, a British citizen might have to stand in a queue. We don't do that sort of thing normally, no sir.

During a trip to Russia last year we passengers had to form an orderly line, gives me the chills just thinking about it.

 

[rcoobc]

Where are these migrants to stay before they attempt passage? Presumably there would be an even greater number than at present, are the French going to buy them tickets and put them up in hotels?

Well, it's a bit stupid isn't it; it's not like the French are going to allow them to board Eurotunnel trains or Ferries... it's just that they will stop bothering to check that they are on the lorries.

So yes, in the short term there would still be the migrant camp in Calais, but they'd be saying that, in the long term, the migrants could just jump on any Lorry and as long as they aren't caught by the driver, they will get through. Then it would be up to the UK customs to deal with it.

In reality. I find this unlikely.

 

[Walrus]

It's been a common them actually, the UK's going to turn into some cross between North Korea and the Islamic State going by some of the arguments you hear. lol

Of course it is relevant to older people: they'll have children and grandchildren for whom the EU can be a negative force, and their taxes are routinely being wasted by a corrupt foreign institution. How can it possible not be their place to speak?

People over 60? I would imagine their children and possibly grandchildren are already of voting age and can vote however they are inclined. The lack of foresight and long term planning of these older generations has been evident for a long time now, from the over consumption of natural resources, to the out-of-date traditionalist politicians who are utterly out of touch with the modern world. Of course this does not apply to every individual but we are talking general demographics here.

 

[Red Defence]

People over 60? I would imagine their children and possibly grandchildren are already of voting age and can vote however they are inclined. The lack of foresight and long term planning of these older generations has been evident for a long time now, from the over consumption of natural resources, to the out-of-date traditionalist politicians who are utterly out of touch with the modern world. Of course this does not apply to every individual but we are talking general demographics here.

I have another idea. Let's ban all these groups, as there are good reasons.

16-20yr olds - to young to have any understanding of the issues involved or the consequences. Think only about the opp sex.

20-30yr olds - think they know everything and yet they know nothing. Far too arrogant to think clearly.

50+yr olds - Due to kick the bucket soon so no point in voting.

There we are.....just the 31-49yr olds left. How's that then?

 

[rcoobc]

I have another idea. Let's ban all these groups, as there are good reasons.

16-20yr olds - to young to have any understanding of the issues involved or the consequences. Think only about the opp sex.

20-30yr olds - think they know everything and yet they know nothing. Far too arrogant to think clearly.

50+yr olds - Due to kick the bucket soon so no point in voting.

There we are.....just the 31-49yr olds left. How's that then?

Sounds like a pretty decent idea to me. Or maybe give everyone over the age of 25 two votes, anyone over the age of 35 three votes, over the age of 50 back to two votes, and over the age of 60 back to 1 vote.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

The ironic thing here is that the UK couldn't because the EU wouldn't allow it.

 

[rcoobc]

The ironic thing here is that the UK couldn't because the EU wouldn't allow it.

true.

And this will really grate on some people. But it also prevents potential tyrants discriminating against certain people, or stops other countries taking away the vote from women.

 

[ThierryHenry]

Would those be the same young, educated people, who we have seen on national television suggesting that they wouldn't be able to travel or be part of the global community and have so easily have foreign friends?

It's quite sweet really, but fortunately not all young people think along such ludicrous lines.

I think it would be a huge shame for young British people to lose the Erasmus program as an opportunity, if that's what you're hinting at (I haven't seen what you're referring to).

 

[moxdevil]

Well, it's a bit stupid isn't it; it's not like the French are going to allow them to board Eurotunnel trains or Ferries... it's just that they will stop bothering to check that they are on the lorries.

So yes, in the short term there would still be the migrant camp in Calais, but they'd be saying that, in the long term, the migrants could just jump on any Lorry and as long as they aren't caught by the driver, they will get through. Then it would be up to the UK customs to deal with it.

In reality. I find this unlikely.

My colleagues in Border Force would argue that this has already been happening the last 15 years based on their experience of French checks.

This nonsense being peddled in the news today about the migrants in Calais being relocated to Kent is laughable. Are the French going to transport them because we won't simply accept them. I'm surprised that the 'In' crowd are then talking about increased checks at Felixstowe slowing down trade - after having argued that the EU wouldn't trade with us anyway. Need to get the fear mongering consistent.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Luckily I emigrated to France from the UK 9 years ago, hopefully the UK will leave the EU, lock the doors and not let me back in again. If the UK decide to leave the people who voted to come out will in a few years time realise what a mistake to make and try to rejoin.
I was 17 when the UK joined the EEC but because of my age am responsible for global warming etc and have no intelligence to only justify a minor vote. What a load of twaddle.
Good luck with utopia

 

[Mozza]

Horror or horrors, a British citizen might have to stand in a queue. We don't do that sort of thing normally, no sir.

During a trip to Russia last year we passengers had to form an orderly line, gives me the chills just thinking about it.

Having first hand knowledge of what it takes for a non EU citizen to get a visa, if we decide to replicate that system should we vote out we'll be spending substantial amounts of time and money to go abroad

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

And in a further act of crass provocation from the EU:

Eurosceptics should visit war graves, says Jean-Claude Juncker


Does he have no understanding at all of the British character?

Having first hand knowledge of what it takes for a non EU citizen to get a visa, if we decide to replicate that system should we vote out we'll be spending substantial amounts of time and money to go abroad

I rather suppose that the present system will be reformed in the event of a Brexit.

 

[Mozza]

I rather suppose that the present system will be reformed in the event of a Brexit.

To what exactly?

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

And in a further act of crass provocation from the EU:

Eurosceptics should visit war graves, says Jean-Claude Juncker


Does he have no understanding at all of the British character?




I rather suppose that the present system will be reformed in the event of a Brexit.

I don't understand why he is suspended for giving his opinion?

 

[Red Defence]

But Sky News understands the BCC's president, Nora Senior, instigated the suspension and members have now been told that Mr Longworth has been temporarily suspended for breaching the group's official position of neutrality.

http://news.sky.com/story/1653796/business-leader-suspended-over-brexit-remarks

Seems he's not allowed a public opinion. Pleased he spoke out though.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

To what exactly?

To something a good deal less expensive for one, and closer to parity for aspiring applicants than exists at present.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I don't understand why he is suspended for giving his opinion?

http://news.sky.com/story/1653796/business-leader-suspended-over-brexit-remarks

Seems he's not allowed a public opinion. Pleased he spoke out though.

Because he's head of a body thats decided on a policy of neutrality because their membership is divided. He'd have been suspended if he'd have said to stay, too.

It's literally written in the quote. Stupid that both sides are trying to play politics over this. Johnson should stfu.

 

[Mozza]

To something a good deal less expensive for one, and closer to parity for aspiring applicants than exists at present.

That doesn't answer the question. At a guess right wingers aren't going to suddenly make the system any easier for poorer people to get in the country, they'll just make it equally shit for everyone

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

That doesn't answer the question. At a guess right wingers aren't going to suddenly make the system any easier for poorer people to get in the country, they'll just make it equally shit for everyone

What was the point in me answering if you can't even recognise it as such. If the UK has begun its withdrawal from the EU and there exists some uncertainty surrounding our dealings with the continent, we're not about to harm our appeal elsewhere (rather the opposite i'd suspect). In all likelihood neither your preconceptions nor my hopes for a fairer system will be the motive, just simple practicality.

 

[Mozza]

What was the point in me answering if you can't even recognise it as such. If the UK has begun its withdrawal from the EU and there exists some uncertainty surrounding our dealings with the continent, we're not about to harm our appeal elsewhere (rather the opposite i'd suspect). In all likelihood neither your preconceptions nor my hopes for a fairer system will be the motive, just simple practicality.

I've got this governments historic record to base my assumptions, you've some hope things will be better. They've had this stupid idea to target immigration at the tens of thousands, an arbitrary figure which means they won't make things easier for non EU citizens

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

I've got this governments historic record to base my assumptions, you've some hope things will be better. They've had this stupid idea to target immigration at the tens of thousands, an arbitrary figure which means they won't make things easier for non EU citizens

A government operating under the strictures of EU membership though, and one to which you have aligned yourself i might add.

 

[Mozza]

A government operating under the strictures of EU membership though, and one to which you have aligned yourself i might add.

They are not forced to have a shit and unfair policy, being in the EU is an excuse.

 

[Stanley Road]

So lets just have a look what we've got in the EU

Loads of migrants
Flat economies
Bankrupt countries
Unrest to the east
Extremism on the rise
No unity on solutions
Rich getting richer
Poor getting poorer
75% increase homelessness in some countries

What could be better? I'm in.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Government and the Remain camp seemingly caught in yet a lie.

They are not forced to have a shit and unfair policy, being in the EU is an excuse.

Being in the EU restricts our ability to have a properly nuanced and cohesive migration policy, no matter which party is ruling the country. However i believe that we were talking about Britons travelling abroad, as opposed to immigration.

 

[rcoobc]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ney-priti-patel-suffragettes-brexit-live.html

There would also be questions over whether the UK would lose its "substantial influence" over the development of EU financial regulations and would retain the flexibility enshrined in the renegotiation settlement secured by David Cameron.

Asked whether uncertainties of this kind might lead companies to relocate business activities away from the City in the event of Brexit, Mr Carney said: "One would expect some activity to move. Certainly, there is a logic to that.

"There are views that have been expressed publicly and privately by a number of institutions that they would look at it. I would say a number of institutions are contingency planning for that possibility - major institutions, foreign headquartered, which have their European headquarters here.

"There would be an impact. I can't give you a precise number in terms of institutions or jobs or activity, because we don't know where we would be on that continuum between full mutual recognition or pure third-country access."

Asked if some degree of loss of business could be expected if full mutual recognition was not retained, Mr Carney said: "Without question."

He told the MPs: "It is reasonable to expect that certain firms would take a view in terms of relocation."

Mr Carney added: "Mutual recognition arrangements are possible to achieve, but in general they take a very long time to achieve and the challenge is the degree of freedom one retains in setting one's own path, rules, approach, and maintaining that mutual recognition."

Britain would have to think through the benefits of seeking to preserve as much as possible of the City's existing business at the cost of "in effect ceding sovereignty over this aspect of our authorities" and losing flexibilities in the realm of prudential and macro-prudential regulation and supervision, which have just been reinforced by Mr Cameron's renegotiation, he said.

In a letter to the committee released as he appeared to give evidence, Mr Carney said the renegotiation deal - which will come into effect only if the UK votes to remain in the EU - "delivers a number of protections and additional tools that will help safeguard the Bank's ability to continue to achieve its statutory objectives".

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

And when questioned about private discussions he has had with the Prime Minister, Carney went on to reveal the following:

"In the current status quo we have the tools to deal with our remit. Our concern is the potential evolution of the euro area and we've had detailed conversations about this."

Concerns which they have completely disregarded apparently. The Remain lobby would invite medium-long term problems upon this country and not feel one jot of guilt for the deed.

 

[Mozza]

Being in the EU restricts our ability to have a properly nuanced and cohesive migration policy, no matter which party is ruling the country. However i believe that we were talking about Britons travelling abroad, as opposed to immigration.

Being in the EU doesn't force us to have a shit system, its this government attempt to hit an arbitery number thats made them do it. If they didn't pluck numbers from the air we wouldn't be in this situation

It may effect Britains travelling abroad in the event of an exit as the EU will make it as hard for Brits to enter as we make it for them

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Being in the EU doesn't force us to have a shit system, its this government attempt to hit an arbitery number thats made them do it. If they didn't pluck numbers from the air we wouldn't be in this situation

It is very difficulty to set any number at all, arbitrary or otherwise, so long as we maintain EU membership. The organisation is not one which embraces flexibility or refined policy making, just one clumsy solution irrespective of the consequences.

It may effect Britains travelling abroad in the event of an exit as the EU will make it as hard for Brits to enter as we make it for them

We are going to make it difficult for tourists to come to the UK are we? Maybe you should contact your new buddy David Cameron and tell him to run with that piece of propaganda at PMQs tomorrow.

 

[rcoobc]

And when questioned about private discussions he has had with the Prime Minister, Carney went on to reveal the following:

Concerns which they have completely disregarded apparently. The Remain lobby would invite medium-long term problems upon this country and not feel one jot of guilt for the deed.

Is leaving the EU going to do anything to dissipate any concerns in the Eurozone though? Nope.

In the very best case, after leaving the EU, we will still be at the mercy of Europe's flaws.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Is leaving the EU going to do anything to dissipate any concerns in the Eurozone though? Nope.

I must disagree with you again. It is not entirely unreasonable from their point of view of course, but a Eurozone-led EU is not go9ng to be forming policy with Britain in mind.

In the very best case, after leaving the EU, we will still be at the mercy of Europe's flaws.

Hardly, the very best case would be the eventual dissolution of the European Union as it is presently constituted. Europe needs to start over, not bull on ahead for the want of some imagination and courage.

 

[BringNaniBack]

I actually cannot believe the Yes/Remain vote is winning in this poll. Are you people crazy. I really hope this is not an accurate representation of how the population will vote. If people vote to remain you are going to be partly responsible for the destruction of this country and of British culture, wave goodbye to the way of life you know and any sort of real freedom or democracy for your children and the generations to come. Please wake up and realise what is going on. It actually makes me sick to think people are being scared into wanting to remain in the EU or if not scared than just not aware of what the real agenda of the EU is.

Save your country and vote to leave. Please.

 

[DOTA]

If people vote to remain you are going to be partly responsible for the destruction of this country and of British culture, wave goodbye to the way of life you know and any sort of real freedom or democracy for your children and the generations to come.

Goodness!

It actually makes me sick to think people are being scared into wanting to remain in the EU or if not scared than just not aware of what the real agenda of the EU is.

Enlighten me.

 

[rcoobc]

Hardly, the very best case would be the eventual dissolution of the European Union as it is presently constituted. Europe needs to start over, not bull on ahead for the want of some imagination and courage.

You want to dissolve the European Union entirely? Talk about throwing away the eggs with the basket. The EU has been a motor for peace in the region in all it's inceptions. I can't seriously believe many would want to throw that away entirely

 

[rcoobc]

If people vote to remain you are going to be partly responsible for the destruction of this country and of British culture, wave goodbye to the way of life you know and any sort of real freedom or democracy for your children and the generations to come. Please wake up and realise what is going on. It actually makes me sick to think people are being scared into wanting to remain in the EU or if not scared than just not aware of what the real agenda of the EU is.

Save your country and vote to leave. Please.

 

[Ubik]

I have to say some of the really anti-EUers do seem to think that the EU is basically evidence that the Nazis won.