Except we will lose our rebates, lose our vetos, have to take the Euro, but okay.
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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Oh.. Wow! Any reason for it or is it just sticking with tradition?
source: Huffington Post
will desist, it's a sensible thread, which is good
Me & my brother both voted in earlier today. Majority of our family seems to have voted to remain, as have all the people I know from games & whatnot.
This is amazingly exciting, honestly.
This is amazingly exciting, honestly.
And what makes you think that the EU will have Britain back so easily after they turned tail and left? You do know that no one love deserters don't you?
There is no chance we would be able to/want to join. If we were to join, in all likeliness we would have to join Schengen and the Euro. We would not have the privileged position we have now.
By the way, who said there'd be 27 members of a REFORMED EU? You've neglected to observe the keyword in that sentence...
Re-read the post, I said a reformed EU, you don't think our referendum won't kick start a movement throughout if we were to vote leave?
So you're trying to pass off fact 'there is nothing to stop us' on pure hypothetical that may or may not be the case but currently is the case and there's nothing you can provide to show it would be any different?
Because electronic voting is great in theory, terrible in practice
Plus it's tradition
Fair. Think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying.
Wouldn't Canada come under TTIP?
Isn't safer and more logical to work with the other member states while in the EU to reform it rather than running away and letting other member states do all the work then try to jump back in? Would the other member states want us back in after we quit when it got a bit tough then conveniently want back in when things get better?
Has there been any discussion on Juncker's comments earlier? He essentially confirmed that there would be no more reforms or concessions for the UK should it chose to remain.
That pretty much discredits Remain's idea of staying and reforming from within you'd think.
That pretty much discredits Remain's idea of staying and reforming from within you'd think.
Especially considering we started the thing and have been one of three major players alongside France and Germany in deciding everything about what the EU is.
Why on Earth would the allow us back in as one of the big 3 again? The idea is hilarious
@Rudie is leaving the EU in order to kick start a chain reaction causing member states to either also leave or radically reform the current EU, at which point we may rejoin.
Right.
Right.
We do reform the EU, the UK, Germany and France pretty much ARE the EU. Everything about the EU has been decided by these big three and will continue to be so if we remain, how are people not understanding this?
Personally, I would be surprised by a result other than a remain win. Both campaigns have been conducted, at best, disgraceful. And yes, I can understand why some voters may want to distance themselves from the BNP and UKIP. But then I guess there are plenty of voters who don't want to find themselves on the same side as Cameron, Osborne etc.
Wales decides:
If that were the case then it comes down to 'put up with some of the bad things but enjoy the many benefits and don't risk our economy' against 'leave and be free of the bad things we don't like and also give up all the benefits and also risk our economy'. So it becomes which one you value more, and for me the positives far far far outweigh the negatives. Especially as the leave campaign can give us no plan or no idea about what they're going to actually do to make things better. If they could have at least provided that, it would have been easier to listen to them.
I'm not sure thats right.
As far as I'm aware he said 'If the UK vote to Leave, then we will not bargain to give them better terms to make them stay...'. Happy to be proved wrong, but I thought it was quite clear that he was just saying the EU wouldn't be held hostage to a Brexit vote.
I always figured the UK was mostly on the losing side when it came to votes cast in the EU council. If so, then what hope do they have of eliciting their voice.
Of course it would. Brexit will give the EU the perfect excuse why things are going wrong within its domain. Things were actually getting better (read financial forecasts) until the Brits decided to throw a spanner in the works and send everyone to recession again. Countries will look up towards Germany and Germany will push its agenda towards more federalism and expansion. Not to forget that deserters tend not to be liked very much which means that common sense will go out of the window as Britain will be punished for what it did making it very difficult for it to arrange trade deals with EU (and viceversa). Nationalism and unemployment will rise on both sides of the barricade and rival nations like Russia will milk that to the full.
I believe the EU will survive this crisis same as the UK. Once it does, the UK might as well want to go back into the EU as you suggested. However I doubt the EU would want a quitter around, someone who will turn tail when the first signs of disagreement and crisis will occur. It may offer a deal similar to the one given to Norway (actually it will be worse) but you will have to accept freedom of movement of people, the implementation of most if not all EU laws and no Veto. Basically it will turn the UK from Theon to Reek.
The EU can and must be reformed. If you think that you're the only ones who are fed up of the benefit scroungers and the petty thieves then think again. However that can only be achieved by staying in, making allies and push for the right reforms. Not by leaving and playing the victim all the time
"Official EU voting records show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999.
In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%."
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/
At Rudie what reform do you think are needed and what the UK actually provides to Europe?
Especially considering we started the thing and have been one of three major players alongside France and Germany in deciding everything about what the EU is.
Why on Earth would the allow us back in as one of the big 3 again? The idea is hilarious
We didn't though, we joined 20 years after it started. Also France campaigned furiously to not let us in throughout the 60s.
Staying in the EU is the boring, but pragmatic and correct, choice. However if we leave, it'll likely be the pragmatic and correct choice to let us back in in the future. It's a market driven organisation designed to benefit member states economies and ultimately the quality of life for the citizens of those members. Britain is projected to have the largest population by 2030 in Europe and is a rich developed nation. Of course they'd let us back in, just like they really don't want us to leave.
It's in everyone's personal and national interest for us to remain moving forward. Leaving only exacerbates the current problems in the short term and makes recovery harder for all in the long term. The fact we're even having a referendum due to internal Tory politics is what angers me the most.
We shall see. I dont think he will end up being correct.
Germany want to reform the EU. Juncker himself has admitted the EU interferes too much.
I think the EU will reform regardless, but not give more concessions to the UK for the time being.
I don't mean emailing in the vote, I mean going to the polling place and filling out the ballot in an electronic voting booth.
Yes they've voted yes in most cases along with pretty much all members, but on the flipside they've been on the losing side of the vote more times than any other member:
The trouble is, reform initiatives tend to go against the grain, so on that basis its highly unlikely that the UK will be able to elicit genuine reform that goes beyond the simple 'yes' votes each member votes on pretty trivial legislation.
Any idea when the results will be out?
Yes they've voted yes in most cases along with pretty much all members, but on the flipside they've been on the losing side of the vote more times than any other member:
Source: http://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/does-the-uk-win-or-lose-in-the-council-of-ministers/
The trouble is, reform initiatives tend to go against the grain, so on that basis its highly unlikely that the UK will be able to elicit genuine reform that goes beyond the simple 'yes' votes each member votes on pretty trivial legislation.
That's because we choose to vote no more often than any other country. For all we no we voted no for ridiculous reasons on laws that noone cares about. But the point still remains, 95% of the time we are on the winning side and very rarely, barely ever at all are we on the losing side of it. Let alone most of the time.
Well, I've just voted for the first time in my life.
Hopefully it'll feel like I've actually made a difference.
Hopefully it'll feel like I've actually made a difference.
Meanwhile in Liverpool...
RAWK said:
at people taking pens to the polling stations1. If you think our democracy is so corrupt that votes will be changed, why bother
2. If it is that corrupt, how will using a pen make a difference. Maybe they'll just not count your vote.
Do you feel soiled? You are now a democrat.
Would be interesting to see the more recent stats on this, say the last 3-5 years. Based on the text at the bottom of the article you linked to.
"In terms of the total volume of laws passed, the proportion of times the UK government has been on the “losing side” is small at about 2% since 1999. In recent years the UK has been losing a lot more votes, and now loses a higher proportion of votes than other members."
Edit- we currently lose over 12% of votes in the EU according to the "recent years" link!
Yes they've voted yes in most cases along with pretty much all members, but on the flipside they've been on the losing side of the vote more times than any other member:
Source: http://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/does-the-uk-win-or-lose-in-the-council-of-ministers/
The trouble is, reform initiatives tend to go against the grain, so on that basis its highly unlikely that the UK will be able to elicit genuine reform that goes beyond the simple 'yes' votes each member votes on pretty trivial legislation.
There's European wide calls for reform, its not the UK vs the world.
The arguments will centre around what needs to be reformed, not whether to reform or not. We might not get all we want, true, but it will happen.
Aye, kinda like the US congress voting no to gun laws... fecking stupid, you only wish they had another bunch countries involved in the decision to say "grow up, this is happening".
I do a little bit. Like losing my virginity.
My sister is voting the way she is purely because my parents are voting a certain way. I've gone the opposite because I bothered to do some research.
It worries me that so many people are going to be voting without having a clue why and they're gonna be led by bullshit.
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