EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?

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Revan said:
I am not saying that it will happen immediately, but I think that we are going towards a big European state. Maybe in 50 years, maybe in even more, and I cannot see why it would be bad in the end.

The 'little Englander', 'little German', 'little Frenchmen' etc mentality needs to die. The world is going toward globalism, and the national sentiments shouldn't have a place in the new world.
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We have come a long way since 1940 so i suppose anything is possible. It wont be anytime soon though. There are big cultural differences in Europe and nationalist mentality has been deeply ingrained for hundreds of years.

Probably best not to derail the thread any further!
 
Anyone who is not sure should clearly vote Remain. It is the option that is better known.
 
Kaos said:
Anyone else thinking of not voting altogether?

I'm in by default but can't bring myself to vote in favour of the EU, nor do I remain convinced by the brexit alternative (not to mention aligning myself with the likes of Griffin, Farage, Hopkins, Murdoch and Skeletor).

I don't want to have to lament my choice later on.
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Rado_N said:
If you're unconvinced by either argument surely the status quo is the best option and so a vote to remain is the obvious vote. If people like you don't vote and a low turn out leads to us leaving then you'll have plenty to regret later if (when) it all goes pear shaped.
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Annihilate Now! said:
I always vote... for anything, even if I'm undecided, I'll make a decision and vote.

It sounds corny, but there are still people around the world that are unable to vote in their countries... and people throughout history who have struggled/given their lives just to be able to be heard/vote... it's not a privilege that we as a nation should ever take lightly IMO.
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Revan said:
Yeah, not voting cause I am undecided sounds crazy to me. If you do so, you are essentially voting for whatever party/decision which wins.
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In my opinion, if you can't decide who to vote for and are considering not voting, you should always spoil your vote. A lot of people don't like that, but they are wrong.
  • Spoiling your vote counts towards the official statistics.
  • Spoiling your vote let's the government (and the press) know you didn't note vote because you were lazy, you spoiled because you had no option that represented you (or that you could vote for).
  • Spoiling your vote is a key principle of living in a democracy.
If 30% of the public spoil their votes, thats a clear indication that something is wrong. If 30% of the public don't vote, that's a clear indication that the public don't care.

#VoteSpoil
 
Kaos said:
Anyone else thinking of not voting altogether?

I'm in by default but can't bring myself to vote in favour of the EU, nor do I remain convinced by the brexit alternative (not to mention aligning myself with the likes of Griffin, Farage, Hopkins, Murdoch and Skeletor).

I don't want to have to lament my choice later on.
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If all the evidence for Remain isn't enough, I'd still be voting against a campaign that contains Farage, denigrates migrants, purposely misinforms the public and plays on xenophobia to coax the emotive vote.
 
If you can't decide who to vote for. You should then vote for Remain as it maintains what we are used to.

Voting for Leave is like voting to find someone (the EU) guilty. You have to be extremely convinced it's the right thing to do.
 
rcoobc said:
In my opinion, if you can't decide who to vote for and are considering not voting, you should always spoil your vote. A lot of people don't like that, but they are wrong.
  • Spoiling your vote counts towards the official statistics.
  • Spoiling your vote let's the government (and the press) know you didn't note vote because you were lazy, you spoiled because you had no option that represented you (or that you could vote for).
  • Spoiling your vote is a key principle of living in a democracy.
If 30% of the public spoil their votes, thats a clear indication that something is wrong. If 30% of the public don't vote, that's a clear indication that the public don't care.

#VoteSpoil
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That'll make everyone feel better whilst we're in a 2 year recession.
 
rcoobc said:
In my opinion, if you can't decide who to vote for and are considering not voting, you should always spoil your vote. A lot of people don't like that, but they are wrong.
  • Spoiling your vote counts towards the official statistics.
  • Spoiling your vote let's the government (and the press) know you didn't note vote because you were lazy, you spoiled because you had no option that represented you (or that you could vote for).
  • Spoiling your vote is a key principle of living in a democracy.
If 30% of the public spoil their votes, thats a clear indication that something is wrong. If 30% of the public don't vote, that's a clear indication that the public don't care.

#VoteSpoil
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If 30% do you're right but in reality the number is small enough that instead of being counted as too lazy to vote you're counted as too stupid to know where to cross.

Neither solution is perfect, ultimately the only way we are going to change it is with a better system and a 'No suitable option' box on every election. I don't think either spoiling or not voting on their own will get us that.
 
Rado_N said:
If you're unconvinced by either argument surely the status quo is the best option and so a vote to remain is the obvious vote. If people like you don't vote and a low turn out leads to us leaving then you'll have plenty to regret later if (when) it all goes pear shaped.
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Annihilate Now! said:
I always vote... for anything, even if I'm undecided, I'll make a decision and vote.

It sounds corny, but there are still people around the world that are unable to vote in their countries... and people throughout history who have struggled/given their lives just to be able to be heard/vote... it's not a privilege that we as a nation should ever take lightly IMO.
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Revan said:
Yeah, not voting cause I am undecided sounds crazy to me. If you do so, you are essentially voting for whatever party/decision which wins.
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MannyB said:
If all the evidence for Remain isn't enough, I'd still be voting against a campaign that contains Farage, denigrates migrants, purposely misinforms the public and plays on xenophobia to coax the emotive vote.
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I hear yall, but my fear is if the EU predictably enforces something like TTIP and some bloated legislation no one wants or needs I just know I'll blame myself for dignifying it by having voted to remain.

By not voting I can at least absolve my conscience if either triumphant side leads to disaster.
 
Kaos said:
I hear yall, but my fear is if the EU predictably enforces something like TTIP and some bloated legislation no one wants or needs I just know I'll blame myself for dignifying it by having voted to remain.

By not voting I can at least absolve my conscience if either triumphant side leads to disaster.
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Its completely in the Uk Governments power to call a referendum on approving TTIP (or rewriting our laws as every country besides Malta has to ensure it has to have separate parliamentary approval)... plus if you look at all the other hurdles to it being ratified its certainly not something the EU can impose
https://stop-ttip.org/ttip-study-ratification/
 
sun_tzu said:
Its completely in the Uk Governments power to call a referendum on approving TTIP (or rewriting our laws as every country besides Malta has to ensure it has to have separate parliamentary approval)... plus if you look at all the other hurdles to it being ratified its certainly not something the EU can impose
https://stop-ttip.org/ttip-study-ratification/
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I have no faith in the government vetoing it, I'd expect them to embrace it with open arms.
 
Kaos said:
I have no faith in the government vetoing it, I'd expect them to embrace it with open arms.
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so vote out and exactly what trade deal do you think they will negotiate then?
at least if we are in europe TTIP requires a lot of other governments to approve it as well (which is very unlikely and a number of countries the citizens have the right to force a referendum on the issue)
 
sun_tzu said:
so vote out and exactly what trade deal do you think they will negotiate then?
at least if we are in europe TTIP requires a lot of other governments to approve it as well (which is very unlikely and a number of countries the citizens have the right to force a referendum on the issue)
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I don't intend to vote out either, that's my point.

It's a damned if I'm in or damned if I'm out scenario for me, which is why spoiling remains the most attractive option right now.
 
Kaos said:
I don't intend to vote out either, that's my point.

It's a damned if I'm in or damned if I'm out scenario for me, which is why spoiling remains the most attractive option right now.
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I said as much to Nick yesterday but if that's how you feel then you should vote Remain. If we vote Remain and it all goes tits up we can vote to Leave at a later date.

All voting Leave does (or indeed not voting and Leave winning) is screw us over in the short term based on a scenario that is unlikely to happen.
 
"...make tomorrow our independence day..." - does the Leave campaign have a movie sponsorship deal?
 
NinjaFletch said:
I said as much to Nick yesterday but if that's how you feel then you should vote Remain. If we vote Remain and it all goes tits up we can vote to Leave at a later date.

All voting Leave does (or indeed not voting and Leave winning) is screw us over in the short term based on a scenario that is unlikely to happen.
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I really don't see that being an option. If Remain wins I don't think we'll get another referendum for a long, long time. They'll interpret the victory as a long term mandate for our EU membership.
 
Kaos said:
I really don't see that being an option. If Remain wins I don't think we'll get another referendum for a long, long time. They'll interpret the victory as a long term mandate for our EU membership.
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If there's such significant changes to the EU that it becomes an issue it will happen.

Either way it's far more likely us having a second referendum than it is rejoining on as good terms as we currently have.

If you're unsure and would like a chance to reevaluate in ten years time (or whatever the time frame) then Remain seems the far better choice.
 
Kaos said:
I really don't see that being an option. If Remain wins I don't think we'll get another referendum for a long, long time. They'll interpret the victory as a long term mandate for our EU membership.
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Doubt it, not with the likely numbers if Remain was to win. There would be still a sizeable majority very much against the EU and our likely next PM is the face of the Leave campaign.

There will almost be an EU-watch going on.
 
sincher said:
The EU really will fail if it attempts to over-centralize. I think there are too many smart people involved for that to happen.
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I wouldn't go quite that far! From working with EU policy makers and (especially) civil code lawyers, there is a strong trend for harmonisation and uniformity for their own sakes (which, I should add, is often opposed by the majority of their populations and politicians). I think from statements Juncker et al have been making recently, that the political leaders are realising the danger of this approach, which hopefully will lead them to change their approach going forward.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Ultimately the only way we are going to change it is with a better system and a 'No suitable option' box on every election. I don't think either spoiling or not voting on their own will get us that.
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Agreed, and hopefully that's what an increase in spoiled votes would help bring about.

A "no option that I can vote for" box would be really interesting in these types of referendums. If we saw 40/40/20 where 20% said no option, what would that mean? Surely there needs to be a minimum amount to win on... but maybe they're wouldn't be
 
rcoobc said:
Agreed, and hopefully that's what an increase in spoiled votes would help bring about.

A "no option that I can vote for" box would be really interesting in these types of referendums. If we saw 40/40/20 where 20% said no option, what would that mean? Surely there needs to be a minimum amount to win on... but maybe they're wouldn't be
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Honestly a spoiled vote/no option is a stupid idea in a Yes/No referendum. I can see it being useful when you have to pick amongst a list of MPs, as if somehow Spoiled votes/No options won, we could sack off all the candidates and reorganise a by-election. Not sure how it would work in a Yes-No contest.
 
Twigginater said:
Interesting that RAWK, Redcafe and ArsenalMania all support remain while Bluemoon supports Brexit.
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I haven't read Bluemoon on this matter but wouldn't be surprised if their suppport for Leave is an anti-UEFA thing. :lol:
 
rcoobc said:
Agreed, and hopefully that's what an increase in spoiled votes would help bring about.

A "no option that I can vote for" box would be really interesting in these types of referendums. If we saw 40/40/20 where 20% said no option, what would that mean? Surely there needs to be a minimum amount to win on... but maybe they're wouldn't be
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The only way it would work is an absolute majority required to win and a simple majority being treated as a 're open nominations' option and another referendum.

Won't go down well with the electorate though and God knows I don't want to go through another referendum next year.
 
Twigginater said:
Interesting that RAWK, Redcafe and ArsenalMania all support remain while Bluemoon supports Brexit.
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For all the laughing at RAWK and Liverpool that we do here, Scousers are generally a savvy bunch who actually give a shit about other people.
 
http://mascottcomms.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/leave-europe-hate-ukip-how-nigel-farage.html

While I will vote Remain, this blog piece on the possible Leftist reasons for Brexit was interesting. While I agreed with the vast majority of his points, the likelihood of a post-Brexit Conservative party tackling these issues is remote, and a Corbyn-led Labour government even moreso. In that case, it really is about the lesser of the two evils for me.
 
Revan said:
Why?

Anyway, I am saying that it will be a gradual (and very slow) process, but in the end it will be a single state. European Union is quite young in nature but so far it behaves in many things as a single state. Give it a hundred years and we'll be all living in the United States of Europe (well, our descendants, not us).
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I think it's more likely that it will be separate states (since states are ever proliferating) but tied even more closely together than presently. A de facto state perhaps rather than de jure (except with separate armies).
 
Kaos said:
Anyone else thinking of not voting altogether?

I'm in by default but can't bring myself to vote in favour of the EU, nor do I remain convinced by the brexit alternative (not to mention aligning myself with the likes of Griffin, Farage, Hopkins, Murdoch and Skeletor).

I don't want to have to lament my choice later on.
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By not voting you give up your right to an opinion IMO. If you really can't decide turn up and spoil your ballot.
 
I may be pretty late in this thread, but is there a list of things UK is forced to do because of being part of EU.
 
Sorry if this has been discussed before - but if we Leave, how do you think that will impact football transfers?

Players from Spain, Germany France will need a permit or work Visa i'm assuming?
Is it likely to put British clubs at a disadvantage in the transfer market?
Could it encourage more development for homegrown players?
 
Man puts full page advert in The Metro

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vi1lain said:
Sorry if this has been discussed before - but if we Leave, how do you think that will impact football transfers?

Players from Spain, Germany France will need a permit or work Visa i'm assuming?
Is it likely to put British clubs at a disadvantage in the transfer market?
Could it encourage more development for homegrown players?
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the most probably immediate consequence will be a fall in the value of the £ - potentially 20% or so which will make foreign players 20% more expensive

Anything else ref contracts, work permits etc will remain the same whilst a settlement is negotiated but the currency would be pretty immediate
 
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